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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2009 06:06 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

They're one and the same - as far as I'm concerned!

Hmmm.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Dec, 2009 07:43 pm
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Dunbar will not seek another term on SBOE
(By Kate Alexander, Austin American-Statesman, December 9, 2009)

Richmond Republican Cynthia Dunbar will not seek re-election next year to a second term on the State Board of Education, fellow board member David Bradley confirmed Wednesday

Dunbar, whose expansive district includes northern Travis County, wrote in an e-mail that she would provide a written statement on her plans later.

Dunbar has recently been teaching at the the Liberty University School of Law in Lynchburg, Va. That job and the commute has put great demands on her time, Bradley said.

“She will be missed,” Bradley said.

Dunbar has drawn a torrent of criticism for her staunch conservative views on education. In her book published last year entitled One Nation Under God, Dunbar calls public education a “subtly deceptive tool of perversion.”

Rebecca Osborne, an Austin educator, filed last week to run in the Republican primary for the seat.

Austin lawyer Brian Russell is also planning to run. He is a member of the State Republican Executive Committee of the Republican Party of Texas.

Eight seats on the 15-member State Board of Education are up next year. Among the sitting board members, Democrat Rick Agosto of San Antonio has also said he will not seek re-election next year.

Board Member Don McLeroy, the former chairman on the board, will be facing Thomas Ratliff, son of former Lt. Gov. Bill Ratliff, in the Republican primary.

“It’s going to be a referendum on the past two years. That’s why we’ve drawn all of these opponents,” McLeroy said. “I can’t wait.”
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Dec, 2009 07:46 pm
@wandeljw,
It will be a slate of different names, likely same agenda.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Dec, 2009 05:12 am
@edgarblythe,
Somebody like yourself should stand Ed. It would be a good thing to have an atheist standing rather than them just taking potshots from the sidelines everytime a barn door comes into view.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Dec, 2009 05:24 am
@spendius,
Speaking of potted shots - - -
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Dec, 2009 06:57 am
@edgarblythe,
Yeah--there's a long list. effemm seems to have withdrawn. Your leader.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 02:44 pm
OHIO SCIENCE TEACHER HEARING UPDATE
Quote:
Teacher testifies that anti-evolution handouts did not promote religion
(By Dean Narciso, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH, December 11, 2009)

MOUNT VERNON, Ohio -- Classroom handouts questioning evolution were used as examples of faulty science, not to promote religion in the classroom, a Mount Vernon middle school teacher testified this morning in a hearing to determine if he should be fired.

The school board voted in 2008 that it intends to fire John Freshwater for teaching creationism and intelligent design, failing to remove religious materials from the classroom and burning crosses on students' arms.

He is entitled to a hearing before a referee, who will make a recommendation to the board. Freshwater is on leave from his teaching position at Mount Vernon Middle School.

The handouts, describing how species such as the woodpecker and giraffe could not have evolved, were used to demonstrate faulty analysis, bias and the wrongful application of the scientific method, Freshwater said.

"It's not good science," he said.

Parents of some of his students complained about the handouts, which they claimed that students were prohibited from taking home.

Freshwater testified that he was not trying to hide the material.

"I try to conserve paper. I would use them over and recycle them. If a kid's absent, I'd say 'What you need is right over there on the shelf.' "

Freshwater said he would continue his teaching methods today, claiming they work.

"I would hope other teachers would do the same thing," he said. "The method that I use is successful.

"It comes back to my (Ohio Achievement Test) scores. They're passing. It's working."

Asked during a break in the hearing if Freshwater's explanation is plausible, school district attorney David Millstone, said: "I can only laugh.

"There are students who have already testified that (the handout exercise) wasn't just for that purpose."
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 02:46 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

OHIO SCIENCE TEACHER HEARING UPDATE
Quote:
Teacher testifies that anti-evolution handouts did not promote religion
(By Dean Narciso, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH, December 11, 2009)

Freshwater testified that he was not trying to hide the material.


Ehem, Bullshit.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 03:26 pm
@rosborne979,
ros should call the board and tell them his definite conclusion. The hearings seem pointless if his assertion is true. And it looks like he knows.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 03:48 pm
@rosborne979,
Jumped in here. I have just finished reading "The Greatest Show on Earth" , its a (finally) scientific dredge -up of data and evidence that , by itself, and in concert with other data and evidence, renders any competing "theories" bankrupt and pointless. The surprise was that Richard Dawkins is the author. Perhaps hed gotten the information that he was rapidly becoming a cartoon.
It a pretty good read and a good chronicle of evidence, should you not like Dawkins repetitious writing.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 04:31 pm
@farmerman,
I think "bankrupt and pointless" are rather unfortunate expressions in this context and especially when the nature of the "competing theories" are not specified.

Is the theory which is the foundation of the ritual of the swearing in of a president on the Bible one of the competing theories?

I have exposed this trick of your's effemm and am surprised you have stooped to using it again after I took the trouble to do so. Perhaps your need to engage in such tactics is the explanation of why you didn't respond to that post and seek to discredit it as you really ought to have done rather than proceeding as if it didn't need a rebuttal.

Unless you specify which competing theories you are referring to we are all completely in the dark as to what you are trying to say. Thus your post is bankrupt of ideas and 100% pointless.

But I congratulate you on your capacity to wade through the repetitive and simple prose of Mr Dawkins from which I feel sure you learned nothing significant that you didn't already know.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 04:35 pm
@rosborne979,
At least not entirely hide it -- just make it as stealthy as possible.

FM, Dawkins has seemed to decide to make his case in positive scientific terms and not attempting to propagandize against religious beliefs. The science speaks for itself and it's going to make those on-the-fence consider the case for evolution.

Nixon swore on the Bible -- didn't seem to do too much good.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 06:05 pm
@Lightwizard,
Some of us think that Mr Nixon was a damn sight better president than a number of the specimens we have seen before and after he was in office.

Just another evasion Wiz. And a very silly one.

How do evolutionists propose the inauguration ceremony should be conducted? How do they think nutrient ought to be consumed? What is their preferred arrangement for bringing sperm into conjunction with fertile eggs?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 09:23 pm
@spendius,
I wish Nixon had been king of england. Then we might have had a decent human being in this country.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 08:50 am
Quote:
Defense rests in Freshwater hearing
(By Pamela Schehl, Mount Vernon News, December 12, 2009)

MOUNT VERNON " The defense rested its case to conclude Friday’s session of the contract termination hearing for suspended Mount Vernon middle school teacher John Freshwater.

Freshwater, who has been testifying for about 2 1/2 days, categorically denied all of the allegations brought against him by the board of education. He said, in effect, that the board’s decision to terminate his contract was based on incomplete, misleading, inaccurate and/or intentionally false information.

Referring frequently to Ohio Academic Content Standards for eighth-grade science and proper scientific method, Freshwater explained why he used certain materials mentioned in the investigative report " for example, a worksheet about the peppered moth. He said such materials were used to illustrate bias, and as examples of what was not good scientific method.

Freshwater said he did use the word “here” in classes when certain topics would arise in class.

“It’s to help students get a better understanding of abstract and concrete thinking,” he said.

He said some students would raise questions " about the age of the earth, for example " and “here” would be used to acknowledge the student’s query and move forward with the lesson. “Here” would indicate there was no eyewitness to the event, and that it is an abstract rather than a concrete scientific concept.

“Did you ever use the word ‘here’ to challenge what is in the textbook or to indicate that Biblical principles contradict the science?” asked Freshwater’s lawyer, Kelly Hamilton.

“Absolutely not,” replied Freshwater.

Hamilton also led Freshwater in a painstaking, comprehensive review of his performance evaluations dating from the 1990s. All were positive evaluations.

Alluding to some individuals’ alleged perception that Freshwater used his position as a teacher to promote particular religious beliefs and denigrate others, Hamilton asked a series of questions, including, “Do you have anything against Catholics?,” “Does having a Bible on your desk make you a Christian?” and “Did you ever refer to a higher being in science class?”

Freshwater replied “no” to all of those questions. He concluded his testimony by again saying the investigation by HR on Call was not complete and not neutral, and repeated his assertion that he “absolutely never taught creationism or intelligent design.”

In response to a question from Hamilton, Freshwater said one “can’t believe [a certain student] on anything.”

Freshwater also said he would have no problem returning to the classroom in Mount Vernon middle school and just picking up where he left off. He said he would not be a disgruntled employee in that situation.

“This hasn’t been easy for you or your family, has it?” asked Hamilton.

“No, it has not,” Freshwater said. “It has been hard on my family.”

It is expected that Freshwater’s cross-examination by school board attorney David Millstone will begin when the hearing resumes at 9 a.m. on Dec. 29.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 09:18 am
@wandeljw,
We expect that Freshwaters lawyer would be tossing him "beachball" questions. Wait till cross-examination starts. He will be eviscerated Im sure.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 10:37 am
@edgarblythe,
Nixon as Prime Minister instead of Churchill. Can you imagine? Then PSXX could aim his little snipes about WWII at the right person.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 10:43 am
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - Know that I am not a crook”
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 11:10 am
Your problem with highlighting the Freshwater case is that your position is balanced on a pure incident which could easily have never happened. His mother and father meeting each other for example.

To try to use such an incident to bring into disrepute the 2000 year old cultural religion of Christianity itself is the work of very small minds. It is only the smallness of the minds which excuses it from the charge of being profoundly insulting to A2Kers.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 04:31 pm
@spendius,
Unfortunately dickhead, you still do not have even a silt sized knowledge of how our legal system proceeds. It is adversarial and Constitutionally driven. ANYONE , whose dog is being kicked, can file a grievance in court, and if the court will hear it, it proceeds to a conclusion. If the religious douche bags want to cry foul and about how they are prevented from proselytizing in public schools, they should be ready to put on their best case to prove that what they do, is indeed sanctioned by the Constitution. SImple, but so far, nobody's been able to kick one between the uprights.

Weep for the poor "Bible Scientists" who , by attempting to discredit standard "scientific method" science, are merely being caught in the act of shilling for the Evangelicals, and having their heads shoved up their asses by judges and ADR panels.

Funny, as someone who claims to be one thing, how he misses the obvious.
0 Replies
 
 

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