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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 10:49 am
Hieronymus Bosch was the mad cartoonist of his day, as was James Ensor later on, and then artists almost entirely abandoned any religious content in their work. It was all nature and color -- "the nature of color and light in the open air" (actually the title of a very good book on the subject). Even abstraction explored color and space with imaginary forms were floating about, most of them based on fractals. Ad Reinhardt's Stations of the Cross is an artistic anachronism, dragging the tableau into an out-of-place modern context. Someone as foolish as PSXXX, standing on his corner soap box and banging on a bread board with a knife let's some peculiar logic and reason slip into his woozy babbling.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 10:56 am
@wandeljw,
They're unwilling to admit that they can't tailor evolution to fit their religious fate -- it's the other way around and is an admission that the magical events they cling to are not necessary to have faith that we have no control over almost everything, but can control our own base emotions, our reaction and the possible results. It's methodology that trumps faith in the supernatural.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 11:51 am
@Lightwizard,
LW, Faith is the enemy of humans when it involves most religions. Humans sacrifice logic and common sense in order to follow their "faith," and it doesn't matter which religion; they adhere to the teachings of their forefathers and parents without questioning the contradictions so obvious when anyone bothers to open their eyes. It's a human malady that sees no hope in the future.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There is logic and common sense applied to individuals and logic and common sense applied to groups. As a stern, avowed and obsessional individual it is understandable that you have no conception of the latter despite your inability to even survive outside of a group.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Their blind faith I have found is usually in the cleric -- the priest, the rabii, the father, or even a member of the family, too often the spouse, their friends, or even something entirely inorganic like the church edifice itself. It's idolatry even including a stain glass window or sculpture of the Holy Mary. The "higher power" is so high it's really an abstraction that all the worshipping in the world will not reach. If there's anyone who believes they are forgiven or now totally free of sin and will be swooped up in the rapture, they are the misbegotten fools.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:25 pm
@spendius,
spend, Your problem is universal; you fail to see the obvious contradictions in your beliefs/faith. When you speak of common sense and logic, how do you reconcile creationism with anything about our universe? Can't you see that nature governs everything in our lives? Deformed and/or diseased babies and dead birth, floods, volcanoes, tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes are all natural - including forest fires and draughts. They control our lives, not any god.

Prayer may be good for your personal well being, but that's as far as it goes. There's no god(s) to answer your prayers.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 01:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm wondering if the word "govern" even applies to Nature like it to applys to a God. Each religion either concocted a God (or accepted a prophet) and really by default by whatever a few theocratic, dogmatic religious leaders dictated as a supernatural power. Groups? What do groups really accomplish (back to a camel is a horse designed by a committee). No greatness ever came out of a committee or a group. That's the core of Ayn Rand's objectivism expressed in The Fountainhead. I don't agree in idolizing those individuals that did accomplish those great things anymore than idolizing Gods. Groups have more of a tendency to distort one's own individual, introspective thought. I have a fairly compact family and a short list of close friends who are living. I have more confidence in scientists meeting in groups a great deal more than politicians or clerics -- they always seem to form some mischief that has no core, no motivation other than sniffing each other's cologne.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 01:11 pm
@Lightwizard,
I believe the pull of religion is innate in humans. We may be the most intelligent in the animal kingdom, but that's questionable.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 01:13 pm
Sheesh!! Holy bloody smoke!!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 01:14 pm
@spendius,
spendi, There's nothing holy or bloody about smoke.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 02:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Not even the the smoke screen he blows out his ass. But it might be bloody. I'd have that checked. (Bar stool hemorrhoids).
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 04:28 pm
Hey lads--those three posts I was referring to were absolute drivel.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 04:57 pm
Says PSXXX, driveling all over the page.
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 08:28 pm
@Lightwizard,
I now Believe Spendiouse is approximately three thousand to six thousand years old, as no one could be so deeply involved in a belief of a particular God like his and as yet, been unable to comprehend modern scientific knowledge.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 09:57 pm
@tenderfoot,
With that many years at the local pub, one would think he would have picked up some science by accident!
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Nov, 2009 09:48 am
Quote:
Where Palin Fits On The Creation - Evolution Scale
(Marc Ambinder, TheAtlantic.com, November 16, 2009)

Much more so than abortion, the issue of life's origins wedges itself between the scientifically literate elite and everyone else. No surprise. This is the Big Question, and it has implications for politics: what is humanity? What do we owe each other? From where do we derive our ethics? How do we solve irreconcilable value claims? As evidence for evolution grows, the number of Americans who accept a literal creationist account of human origins has shrunk. Most of these beliefs have been channeled into the "intelligent design" movement, which shares virtually everything with creationism except the name and the implication that macroevolution didn't happen naturally on at least some level. So -- think of public opinion along a line. Very roughly, between 15 and 25%, believe that evolution is a natural process and either know -- or doubt -- that God directed it, and about 75% are willing to acknowledge God's role. Of that 75%, half accept at least some parts of evolutionary theory. The other half is made up of Biblical creationists.

Palin accepts creationism's critique, which is that there is no way that species share a common lineage, or that humans descended from apes, or that terrestrial creatures descended from aquatic creatures.

"But your dad's a science teacher," Schmidt objected. "Yes." "Then you know that science proves evolution," added Schmidt. "Parts of evolution," I said. "But I believe that God created us and also that He can create an evolutionary process that allows species to change and adapt." Schmidt winced and raised his eyebrows. In the dim light, his sunglasses shifted atop his head. I had just dared to mention the C-word: creationism. But I felt I was on solid factual ground.

No, she is not. Evolution, the change over time of species by various unguided (but not always random) selection pressures, is as close to a fact of science as there is. It is as much of a historical fact as the Holocaust. There is plenty of debate within evolutionary science, but with each successive discovery, each new transitional fossil found, each advance in developmental embryology, the case for evolution grows more and more tight. Macroevolution, microevolution, the evolution of complex cellular structures -- there's a lot we don't know, but not a single scientific discovery in recent years can be deemed evidence against the theory of evolution.

Its acceptance in the years after Charles Darwin popularized the concept fundamentally established science as the foundational text of modernism. Most biological scientists don't believe in God. Those who do, like the new chair of the NIH, Francis S. Collins, are Christian Deists; they accept that "progress" in evolution seems random, but they believe that, somewhere beneath the quarks, the God spark is slowly directing this complicated process - or that God created the laws of the universe in such a way so as to lay favorable conditions for evolution. But they don't reject the evidence.

Polling evolution is a political act, so it's hard to come up with sensible data. Pew tried, and decided that the best available evidence suggests that about 13% of Americans understand what evolution is, believe that it happened, and it was not directed by God. That corresponds, roughly, to the pool of atheists. When "God" is not mentioned in evolution polls, the number of people who endorse a natural selection process doubles, suggesting that there is a still a stigma in affirming to a pollster that God did not do something -- or that "natural selection" leaves room for God in the gaps.

The American people are finicky about their creation/evolution debate. Even though a majority of Americans clearly believe at least a thin form of "intelligent design," about a majority staunchly opposes something called "creationism" -- even though it is, in the real world, indistinguishable from creationism in its animating principles and aims. What this means is that Americans accept the chronology of evolution without accepting the science of evolution. Disproving evolution to scientists would mean finding a rabbit fossil in the Burgess Shale. Disproving "intelligent design" to most Americans would mean disproving the existence of God. And Americans aren't willing to give up God. But they're not willing to ignore at least parts of the evidence. Sarah Palin -- she is.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Nov, 2009 11:23 am
@wandeljw,
wandel, I believe the numbers of creationists will continue to fall, as well as attendance to church, but I do not believe humans will ever divorce themselves from religion.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Nov, 2009 12:43 pm
@tenderfoot,
Quote:
I now Believe Spendiouse is approximately three thousand to six thousand years old, as no one could be so deeply involved in a belief of a particular God like his and as yet, been unable to comprehend modern scientific knowledge.


It is highly likely tf that I don't comprehend modern science in any way you might recognise. If Pavlov took a 5 year old and taught it to say the words "modern scientific knowledge" and when it did so he told the kid it was a scientist and gave it a candy I think the kid would come to believe it was a scientist.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Nov, 2009 12:50 pm
Something like that is what has happened to the dimwits I am arguing with. A bit more elaborate I'll admit. There would be religious rituals involving caps and gowns, spectacular effects and archaic symbolisms for reinforcement. Even just reading a National Geographic article in a dentist's waiting room might suffice in some cases.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Nov, 2009 01:06 pm
@spendius,
And you would miss all the facts about evolution in those National Geographic magazines, because you have decided long ago to ignore them - or misinterpret them.
 

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