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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 03:32 pm
@Setanta,
I simply don't believe that Settin'Aah-aah actually finds that a claim to have discovered these fossils dating back more than 5 million years is "very exciting". He really ought to have found this dramatic news at least "very interesting" to justify him being "very excited" about it.

I wish I could get very excited as easily as that.

I think he might be taking the piss.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 03:55 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I wish I could get very excited as easily as that.
Youre hammered most of the time so Im not surprised that youre numb.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 03:59 pm
@Setanta,
The panel discussion "Understanding Ardi" was essential to really make this documentary exciting. That Ardi was bipedal but, unlike Lucy, was arboreal and lived in a forested area and not a grassland. It's very compelling evidence to anyone who can grasp it.

Unfortunate that some have the cognitive comprehension level of a dead flashlight battery and all they really understand is, "Are you sure you're going to have another?"
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 04:03 pm
I felt very excited when I first read about Lucy. This is that excitement all over again. How anyone can be oblivious to their import is beyond my comprehension.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 04:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
That's tough Ed. I am completely oblivious to this news along with the vast bulk of the human race. I would guess than no more that 0.01% have ever given it a second thought. I suspect that you only ever do when you come on here.

It's an affectation.

Did you get my 'storehouse for nuts' joke first time through?
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 04:56 pm
@edgarblythe,
Try: They don't care. All they know is that they can haul their bipedal ass into the bar and drink themselves silly.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 05:06 pm
@Lightwizard,
Have you never tried it Wiz? It's good fun.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 05:09 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

That's tough Ed. I am completely oblivious to this news along with the vast bulk of the human race. I would guess than no more that 0.01% have ever given it a second thought. I suspect that you only ever do when you come on here.

It's an affectation.

Did you get my 'storehouse for nuts' joke first time through?


That's because, underneath your supposed education, you choose to be stupid and/or ignorant.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 05:27 pm
@edgarblythe,
I have seen so many astounding revelations on various scientific TV channels Ed. which were never mentioned on the news that I have become immune to any possible sources of arousal they may have.

Do you rule out the possibility of advanced civilisations having existed long before these things you are getting heated about and foundering and being recycled in the inner core of the earth. Why do rich seams of gold only appear in a few locations?
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 06:06 pm
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/news/national/story/Before-Lucy-came-Ardi-new-earliest-hominid-found/ZGQ5CyIFKkOmNb7hqcx1Vw.cspx

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ardi-fossil-brings-us-closer-common-ancestor-humans/story?id=8716359

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8285180.stm

To paraphrase Gertrude: An idiot is an idiot is an idiot
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2009 06:42 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Do you rule out the possibility of advanced civilisations having existed long before these things you are getting heated about and foundering and being recycled in the inner core of the earth. Why do rich seams of gold only appear in a few locations?
We may be achieving a breakthrough with spendi here

SPendi, by your simplistic question,youve just seen the value of evidence.
Evidence is our friend in that it helps answer both silly and not so silly questions. All it takes is a receptive ear and a perceptive brain to back up and understand the evidentiary information.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 03:55 am
@farmerman,
Well--the evidentiary information is that you have not seen fit to answer the question and have simply used it as a springboard from which to launch another fatuous homily.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 07:37 am
Quote:
Lecture Series To Challenge Darwinian Evolution
(By ERIN MAGUIRE, The Philadelphia Bulletin, October 10, 2009)

The questions of “Where did we come from?” and “Where are we going?” have intrigued man since the beginning of time. The International Institute for Culture (IIC) lecture series “Evolution: The Untold Story” will provide a forum for Intelligent Design based answers to these queries at the Villanova Conference Center in Radnor on Oct. 24 from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.

Leading Catholic scientists, ethicists and cultural analysts will present information that supports the event’s theme: “Latest Scientific Discoveries Challenge Darwinian Evolution’s Fitness to Survive.” The IIC is a non-profit educational and research center dedicated to Catholic cultural renewal.

Michael Behe, Ph.D., professor of Biological Science at Lehigh University and author of Darwin’s Black Box (1996) and The Edge of Evolution (2007), will begin the talks with his speech, “Why random mutation and natural selection are not capable of building the complex, coherent, molecular machinery recently discovered in the cell.”

“Life is a lot more complicated than what we’ve been led to believe,” Mr. Behe said. “And the standard story of evolution we’ve been led to believe is not the entire story.”

Mr. Behe espoused Darwinian evolution as an associate professor of chemistry, but later had a drastic conversion when he researched the theory.

“I was shocked. I thought there would be reams of evidence for Darwinian evolution,” he recalled. “But there were no real explanations. I was angry that much of our view on the way the world works is based on sociology " what we’re expected to believe versus hard scientific evidence.”

Through his research, Mr. Behe concluded, “So far, Darwinian evolution has not been able to account for the complexity of the cell.”

Hugh Miller, research chemist, and co-author of the paper “Recent C[arbon]-14 dating of fossils including dinosaur bone collagen,” will also challenge generally accepted thinking in his speech titled, “Removing the Darwinian fig leaf: what modern carbon dating reveals about the true age of the dinosaur.”

John Sanford, Ph.D., founder of Sanford Scientific, Inc., Feed My Sheep Foundation, and author of Genetic Entropy (2005) will provide countercultural mathematical evidence of man’s de-evolution. His talk is called, “Taking an axe to the primary axiom: mathematical proof that man is devolving, not evolving and why random mutation and natural selection are powerless to stop it.”

The notion of Darwinian evolution as it relates to Catholicism is also central to the event.

Hugh Owen, historian, writer and director of the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation, will discuss how the Vatican weighs in on evolution in his speech, “Catholics engage in the Great Debate. Rome considers the evidence and articulates guidelines.”

John Haas, Ph.D., president of both the IIC and National Catholic Bioethics Center, will speak about “The importance of the evolution dialogue to Catholics and the implications for our children.”

“Fundamentally, the belief in strict Darwinian materialist evolution offers a world-view in which God cannot be acknowledged,” Mr. Haas explained. “The belief in the ‘survival of the fittest,’ when applied to man and his personal choices, can lead to an approach to the moral life where the notion of ‘might makes right’ substitutes for the nobility of human nature as manifested in the strong being willing to sacrifice themselves on behalf of the weak.”

Regarding the impact of Darwinian evolution on Catholics, Mr. Haas said, “Materialist evolutionary theory is one of those largely unquestioned ‘cultural coordinates’ which undergirds many of our ideas about the nature of human beings, human relationships and the social order. These are often radically at odds with a Catholic vision and can even, at times, contribute to a loss of faith.”

Conversely, the speeches would hopefully demonstrate the harmony between purposeful creation and science, Mr. Haas said; “There is fundamentally no opposition between science and religion.”

Following Mr. Haas’ speech, Brian Gail, speaker and author of Fatherless (2009) will facilitate a response to all the lectures in a discussion titled, “What do we do with this information? What is the impact on us as Catholics and on our children?”

Timothy Murnane, event organizer who presented “Intelligent Design " scientific advances confirm Catholic teaching on creation” at an IIC lecture last year, emphasized the need for this lecture series now.

“It is important for young Catholics to hear both sides of the story to assist them in their own accountability in faith decisions,” he said. “I believe Darwinian evolution will be discredited this generation. We want to reach as many decision makers and educators as possible.”
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 07:44 am
This is how the International Institute for Culture describes itself on the "About Us" page of their web site:

The International Institute for Culture (IIC) is a non-profit educational and research center which seeks to promote international understanding through cultural means. Started in 1989 in response to the Holy Father’s call for the re-evangelization of culture, the IIC is engaged in international conferences, language and cultural programs, lectures series, educational seminars, art exhibits and musical performances which reflect the rich cultural heritage of the Catholic Church and which may serve to bring people to the Person of Jesus Christ.

The purpose IIC is not to advance the idea that it is possible to restore some ideal Christian past. There never has been one. Rather it is to look at the way in which the Faith has shaped cultures in the past and the culture in which we live today, the manner in which it preserved and elevated whatever was good and noble in any culture which it encountered and repudiated whatever debased the human spirit. With such knowledge and with a commitment to the Redeemer of Culture we can begin working together to build the new “civilization of love.”


I think it not unreasonable to suggest that they have a bias.
Lightwizard
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 08:46 am
@Setanta,
It's plainly proselytizing and by any means. If they thought stopping by door-to-door with the anti-evolution literature like the Watchtower, they'd be a knockin' at our doors. Their theory that Faith can shape our culture is laughable -- avarice, Wall Street, gargantuan corporations (like WalMart), technology, and politics have shaped our culture. What specific country was the culture shaped by Faith? Faith in what religion? Technological and scientific advances occurred despite religion, not because of it. That's a myth of the uneducated.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 09:43 am
Setanta and LW,
One of the speakers is known for presenting scientific evidence that humans and dinosaurs coexisted:
Quote:
Hugh Miller, research chemist, and co-author of the paper “Recent C[arbon]-14 dating of fossils including dinosaur bone collagen,” will also challenge generally accepted thinking in his speech titled, “Removing the Darwinian fig leaf: what modern carbon dating reveals about the true age of the dinosaur.”


Dr. Behe will be speaking at an event with guys like Hugh Miller.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 09:52 am
@wandeljw,
You mean they had collagen injection parties for dinosaurs so they could look their best before they try to eat Rachel Welch? What a quaint, provincial title for the speech. If they attendees can swallow that, they can swallow a porcupine whole.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 10:28 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
“What do we do with this information? What is the impact on us as Catholics and on our children?”


Goodness gracious me wande. That's the anti-IDer's bogeyman--consequences.


0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 11:02 am
@Lightwizard,
Quote:
Their theory that Faith can shape our culture is laughable -- avarice, Wall Street, gargantuan corporations (like WalMart), technology, and politics have shaped our culture.


That's the point Wiz. Those institutions have, to an extent some consider dangerous, shaped some aspects of the culture. Which is why they are being challenged.

Quote:
Technological and scientific advances occurred despite religion, not because of it. That's a myth of the uneducated.


Another claim to be educated eh? And a shallow one too. As Set usually says in other places--because you say that doesn't make it true. But Set's intellectual severity stops short of him breaking ranks with the anti-IDers.

I think that if you were educated Wiz you would not have chanced such a ridiculous statement. But it is no good telling you where to look for the correct information because I know you won't do and mainly because it would jump you out of the rut your thinking has got into and possibly because you have an emotional reflex against stuff you can't follow due to it dealing with complexes of ideas rather than simple ones taken one at once which you are used to.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 06:21 pm
@Lightwizard,
It seems that Miller relies entirely upon the work of Schweitzer et al who found the T Rex and Hardosaur "soft tissue" within the rocks of Hell Creek. It must be understood that SChwietzer had to etch the "soft tissue " from out of the rock matrix. It didnt just pop out at them. While the material was definately a proteinacseous collagen material similar to connective tissue , it had to be etched out using a series of acids and VOLATILE organic chemicals (each produced by specific synthesis that requires adding "new" Carbon in solution. Im wondering how Miller provided quality control for his samples when more precise K/Ar and K/K/Ar analyses provided repetitive dates of 80X10^6 M Y (+/- 200k). Hes going to try to show, by the abundance of C14 that the collagen is really young. I wonder how Schhweitzer feels about how their study samples were hijacked by the holy rollers and the Almighty Alchemists.
Theyre all gonna be at Villanova on Oct 24. Im going to see if I cant get some friends and "sit in". This oughta be good, especially since its the growing crowd of Catholic Evangelical snake handlers.

I was listening to a PBS program on the war on all sciences including medicine , physics and chem, ( besisdes the ongoing fights with Geology and evolution).
 

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