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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jul, 2009 03:28 pm
@Lightwizard,
Quote:
Then there was the 100 years war.


Read all about it on Wiki. An on/off slings and arrows job between two gangs. And a key element in nation identity.

Do you know the casuality figures LW? Compared to our wars it was a joke. You are using the word "war" disingenuously in the hope of a stupid readership.

Quote:
graft and embezzlement of funds by priests collected to build gigantic Gothic churches,


What do you expect?

Have you ever read anything about the construction of a cathedral? The gathering of experts from all over Europe in a ferment of cross-cultural fertilisation from which grew not only the urban centre which it spawned but that interchange of ideas and cutting-edge techniques from which science emerged in stages too gradual for your soundbite impatience to appreciate.

What you must think of the intelligence of A2Kers hardly bears thinking about.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jul, 2009 08:43 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Gail Lowe's task at State Board of Education
(William McKenzie/Editorial Columnist/The Dallas Morning News/July 14, 2009)

Don't envy Gail Lowe.

Rick Perry's selection as the latest head of the State Board of Education must lead a board split between social conservatives on one side and moderate conservatives and a few minority Democrats on the other. Finding common ground has never been the board's strong suit, and the struggle really has little to do with party lines.

Skirmishes between the sides over teaching creationism and defining reading standards have been among the latest meltdowns. The board's contentious fights have been such a problem that the Legislature usually looks for ways to take some powers away from the board. This year, the Senate even refused to reconfirm Don McLeroy, one of the social conservatives, as head of the 15-member elected body.

Hence, Ms. Lowe's selection. While I would have preferred he picked someone from the moderate-conservative/minority Democrat side of the board, I fully expected Gov. Perry to select someone from the social conservative side. And it appears he has picked one of the least objectionable members of that faction. Interestingly, Pat Hardy, a Fort Worth Republican member of the moderate conservative/minority Democrat side, had favorable things to say about Ms. Lowe, including praising her for her intelligence and preparation.

The Lampassas Republican's decisions as board chair naturally will determine her effectiveness. She told me in a phone interview today that she sees herself as a facilitator. She will let members be vocal, but she then wants the board to go on after it votes on a controversial topic. (For the record, she voted against including creation teaching in science classes.)

When I asked her how she planned on handing David Bradley, the board's most dominant social conservative, she chuckled and said "I'm not sure one manages David Bradley."

She's probably right. And, of course, he has every right to speak his mind.

But she also has to make sure Bradley and any others on her side of the board don't steer the board into unnecessary skirmishes. And the tests will come soon.

Decisions will be made perhaps by week's end about who will manage the Permanent School Fund. Some social conservatives want a new firm that will cost more. So far, Lowe has stood her ground and preferred the firm that has been managing the account -- at less expense.

The board's also about to get into its next round of standard-setting for students. Next up is what students should know about social studies.

Lowe says she wants students to know a lot about our founding documents and the "uniqueness of Texas." She also wants the standards to be less wordy and more precise.

Amen to precision. In hindsight, I realize some of our standards are too gabby. They need greater specificity for each grade.

Most of all, I hope she encourages all board members to vote for rigorous standards, whether that's in social studies or elsewhere.

Welcome Ms. Lowe. You sure you want this job?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jul, 2009 12:51 pm
You bet she wants it wande. It's the ride of the valkyries.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jul, 2009 04:48 pm
@wandeljw,
I'm satisfied to let her screw up before condemning her.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jul, 2009 05:31 pm
@rosborne979,
Oh- how generous ros is.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jul, 2009 07:17 pm
@rosborne979,
Smile
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:44 am
@rosborne979,
Laughing You're not sure she's going to be worried about job security?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 09:55 am
@Lightwizard,
Isnt she the publisher? Kind of no conflict there eh?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 10:42 am
@farmerman,
You lot gloated over the demise of the dentist.

What you're really after is imposing your choice on Texas. Which is the same as asserting that Texans can't govern themselves.

But all you can do is bleat.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:43 am
Quote:
Accept it: Talk about evolution needs to evolve by Eugenie Scott
(Susan Milius, Science News, August 2009)


So you urge scientists not to say that they “believe” in evolution?!

Right. What your audience hears is more important than what you say.… What [people] hear is that evolution is a belief, it’s an opinion, it’s not well-substantiated science. And that is something that scientists need to avoid communicating.

You believe in God. You believe your sports team is going to win. But you don’t believe in cell division. You don’t believe in thermodynamics. Instead, you might say you “accept evolution.”


How does the language used to discuss new discoveries add to the problem?

To put it mildly, it doesn’t help when evolutionary biologists say things like, “This completely revolutionizes our view of X.” Because hardly anything we come up with is going to completely revolutionize our view of the core ideas of science.... An insight into the early ape-men of East and South Africa is not going to completely change our understanding of Neandertals, for example. So the statement is just wrong. Worse, it’s miseducating the public as to the soundness of our understanding of evolution.

You can say that this fossil or this new bit of data “sheds new light on this part of evolution.”


So people get confused when scientists discover things and change ideas?

Yes, all the time. This is one of the real confusions about evolution. Creationists have done a splendid job of convincing the public that evolution is weak science because scientists are always changing their minds about things.


So how do you explain what science is?

An idea that I stole from [physicist] James Trefil visualizes the content of science as three concentric circles: the core ideas in the center, the frontier ideas in the next ring out and the fringe ideas in the outermost ring....

[We need to] help the public understand that the nature of scientific explanations is to change with new information or new theory " this is a strength of science " but that science is still reliable. And the core ideas of science do not change much, if at all.

The core idea of evolution is common ancestry, and we’re not likely to change our minds about that. But we argue a lot about … how the tree of life is branched and what mechanisms bring evolutionary change about. That’s the frontier area of science.

And then of course you have areas that claim to be science, like “creation science” and “intelligent design,” that are off in the fringe. Scientists don’t spend much time here because the ideas haven’t proven useful in understanding the natural world.


You’ve been on talk radio a lot. What’s your sense of what the public understands about evolutionary biology?

The public has a very poor understanding of evolution. People don’t recognize evolution as referring to the common ancestry of living things. Even those who accept evolution often don’t understand it well. They think it’s a great chain ... of gradual increases in complexity of forms through time, which is certainly an impoverished view of evolutionary biology. That view is the source, in my opinion, of: “If man evolved from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?” ... That’s probably the second most common question I get on talk radio.

It’s like saying, “If you evolved from your cousins, why are your cousins still here?” And of course the answer is, well, in fact, I didn’t evolve from my cousins. My cousins and I shared common ancestors, in our grandparents.


What’s the current state of the effort to keep schools teaching evolution?

Sometimes it feels like the Red Queen around here, where we’re running as hard as we can to stay in the same place. The thing is, creationism evolves. And for every victory we have, there’s pressure on the creationists to change their approach. We constantly have to shift our response. Ultimately the solution to this problem is not going to come from pouring more science on it.


What should scientists and people who care about science do?

I’m calling on scientists to be citizens. American education is decentralized. Which means it’s politicized. To make a change ... you have to be a citizen who pays attention to local elections and votes [for] the right people. You can’t just sit back and expect that the magnificence of science will reveal itself and everybody will ... accept the science.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 09:28 am
@wandeljw,
Believe is a loaded word for those who do not wish to understand evolution. It's a word that mean one wants something to be true, a supposition, but it also means to accept as true, genuine, or real ghosts, astrology, or some other hocus pocus. It's really a magician's trick in diverting attention away from the part of a trick that is meant to fool you. It's been irrevocably attached to religious ideas so the semantics are not compatible with science, especially not evolution science. Rosicrucianism and Scientology are two examples of organizations accepted as religions in the US but scrutinizing what they believe in isn't far from examining an the workings of an asylum.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 10:55 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Quote:
Accept it: Talk about evolution needs to evolve by Eugenie Scott
(Susan Milius, Science News, August 2009)

What should scientists and people who care about science do?

You can’t just sit back and expect that the magnificence of science will reveal itself and everybody will ... accept the science.


Bummer. I wanted to just sit back.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 11:03 am
@rosborne979,
ros, We can sit back, and let the legal system handle all the challenges to science from the ID crazies. Let them spend their money for a cause that can't be won; those defending science will win hands down.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 11:27 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

ros, We can sit back, and let the legal system handle all the challenges to science from the ID crazies. Let them spend their money for a cause that can't be won; those defending science will win hands down.

Actually, I was kidding. Ignorance spreads more easily than knowledge, and as we've seen recently from the increased visibility of ID and incursions of the Discovery Institute into educational processes, unless the scientific establishment and knowledgeable people actively counteract their actions, they are able to insinuate themselves (and their ideas) into places where they can do damage to our culture of scientific knowledge.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 02:03 pm
@rosborne979,
Yes, but this long battle for the brain is not even a contest between science and creationism. People of religion are blinded by their own faith that must be defended to the death, or else their whole life-long belief system goes down the toilet. That's a scary end to what they believed were based on their god(s), the second coming, and their final trip to heaven.

They don't want to accept the fact that we just rot away in our graves after we die. That's why I'm going to be cremated, and my ashes thrown into the Pacific Ocean where my travels will continue.

The funny thing is, our mother was a devout christian, but she feared cremation. Her faith must not have been that strong.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 03:37 pm
@Lightwizard,
Quote:
Rosicrucianism and Scientology are two examples of organizations accepted as religions in the US but scrutinizing what they believe in isn't far from examining an the workings of an asylum.


Such statements will only succeed in driving those types of religion in on themselves. They are counter-productive. You obviously have no intention of trying to educate them to your point of view.

They might even say the same about you. Whatever one says about Science it is a belief that it is beneficial to our species. And many people don't believe that.

If you will not answer the questions about doing away with religion I don't know that you have anything worthwhile to contribute.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 04:12 pm
@spendius,
spendi, It's not our job to tell them about our POV concerning religion. Each individual through the luck of the draw accepted the religion of their parents that I call the "accident of birth." Nothing strange about that. Most do not change their thinking about religion from birth to death.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Once again you don't answer the question about doing away with religion and relying ONLY on science.

That's because you lack real confidence in science and seem to be completely unable to recognise that human minds are part of the physical world which science is supposed to be trying to deal with in a rational way.

You're hopeless. You act as if human minds don't exist.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:36 pm
Quote:
The more we intervene machinery between us and the naked forces the more we numb and atrophy our own senses. Every time we turn on a tap to have water, every time we turn a handle to have a fire or light, we deny ourselves and annul our being. The great elements, the earth, air, fire, water, are there like some great mistress whom we woo and struggle with, whom we heave and wrestle with. And all our appliances do but deny us these fine embraces, take the miracle of life away from us. The machine is the great neuter. It is the eunuch of eunuchs. In the end it emasculates us all. When we balance the sticks and kindle a fire, we partake of the mysteries. But when we turn on an electric tap there is, as it were, a wad between us and the dynamic universe. We do not know what we lose by all our labour-saving appliances. Of the two evils it would be much the lesser to lose all machinery, every bit, rather than to have, as we have, hopelessly too much.


D.H.Lawrence. Studies in Classic American Literature. Chapter IX; Dana's "Two Years Before The Mast."
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:48 pm
Or Henry Miller's Air Conditioned Nightmare.
 

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