Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

The two European scopes which were launched are not optical like the Hubble. One is the infrared telescope Herschel and will study the earliest stages of star and galaxy development. It's also equipped to search for the presence of water in outer space. The other is the Planc which is a microwave telescope that will study the radiation left behind by the Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago. It is also capable of discovering more about dark matter and dark energy.

As far as the Hadron Collider, 10,000 scientists, along with universities and laboratories from around 100 countries are involved with the United Kingdom providing about 15-16% of the investment, and the US contributing around $ 600 million. The failure of the magnets which caused the shut-down and repair was because of Fermilab providing faulty parts. It's up and running again in a few months.

I hope you didn't throw your back out prostrating yourself at the alter of science.

The money would be better used to search for ladies of a higher standard than that lot in the pub tonight.

I am aware some people including a lot respected theologist consider the Genesis account of the creation to be an allegory. I would respectfully disagree because I can't think what the nation of Israel would have gotten out of an allegory in the time of Moses who wrote Genesis. In the Torah, it talks about how man is dominion over animals. Even if taken in a allegory sense, you can not be dominion over animals if you are one or came from one.

(I am not a modern liberal believer; I understand there is even dispute among the more liberal theologist over who wrote the first five books of the Torah or Bible, but that just further proves lightyears point that bringing religion into the discussion would at the very least muddy the waters past all recognition.) Moses Wrote Genesis

What kind of animal did the monkey and man evolve from which is now extinct? (according to the theory)

It just seems illogical to expound on a theory without an explanation on how it all came about in the first place. To me that would be like talking about how babies got here without talking about how they came to be formed into the mother's womb to start with. (or where ever the baby is stored until he/she comes into the world.) It just don't seem to be enough to say Darwin didn't concern himself with it.

I really don't mean to offend, but I don't think (even though I am ignorant of the details and facts contained therein) the theory of evolution is that much more logical sounding than creationism does. But unless I give this more of a serious effort I am probably wasting y'alls time.

We are here for the sole purpose of wasting time revel.

We're here passing time. You're here passing out.

I thought you didn't do delusion LW.

What kind of animal did the monkey and man evolve from which is now extinct? (according to the theory) - revel

Again, you'd have a lot of reading and reviewing of images of paleontological discoveries and it may be according to a theory and, again, it's a scientific theory supported by a lot of evidence (CSI should have so much to catch a criminal). This is a site that tries to make it as brief as possible but it's still somewhat like flying over New York City and thinking that's all you need to know about the entire metropolis.

http://www.hunterian.gla.ac.uk/collections/museum/hominid/pre_5_million/pre_5_million.shtml

As far as Moses writing the Torah and Genesis, there's no historical proof that Moses ever existed so it ends up being a myth supported by more myth. Ramses II supposedly had all references to Moses removed from hieroglyphic records (how convenient and Cecil B. Demille made sure Sir Cedric Hardwicke pronounced this quite clearly*) but there's no evidence to prove that was ever done. It would be like an obelisk where the carving was somehow removed and something else put in its place (lots of something like Plaster of Paris?). This is going back through material that's in Google search, in encyclopedias, in museums, in posts on this forum (hopefully always with links), filmed documentaries, et al.

*Don't get me into that comical movie -- Sir Cedric looked about as much like an Egyptian as I look like George Clooney. He was more believable in "Things to Come" in a futuristic Roman robe.

As a pragmatic scientist, Darwin realized that the origin of the first life forms billions of years ago could not be demonstrated scientifically. A separate scientific problem is how life forms became diverse. Biodiversity is what Darwin was seeking an explanation for.

He alluded to first life but would never commit to attempting an explanation -- after all, the Tree of Life has a trunk and the bottom of the trunk is a single beginning. Of course, he hadn't discovered what the seed was and where it came from and our scientists are still searching with the latest technology. It's only a matter of time. The same thing is true about more of the Origin. He knew others would follow and give a more complete scientific picture backed up by conclusive research.

revel, There are some things us humans will probably never know; it's simply because there aren't the "body of evidence" left over from millions of years ago that we have been able to find. However, we don't have to give up total hope, because science is always advancing, and we're finding more evidence in this world where science has only begun to learn how to look for them. Scientists are even able to determine climate change of our planet from the glaciers in antarctica; something we humans were unable to do until recent times (past 50 years).

Scientists are learning to look at locations previously ignored, and almost every year, a new discovery is made.

I find it amazing that man was able to determine the distance of stars and galaxies - first estimated at hundreds of thousands of light years away. Now, we are able to "look" at galaxies millions of light years away.

When god said "let there be light," he knew not what he was saying.

Reading back I noticed this brilliant encapsulation of the whole problem by LW.



Science does radically "alter" evolutionary processes. Most of us wouldn't be here if it didn't.

revel-- the four posts above my last one from LW, wande and ci. are taken from those instruction manuals which lower middle class improvers buy their children for Christmas instead of catapults, airguns and chemistry sets.

Spacewalkers tackle toughest Hubble repair job yet

By MARCIA DUNN " 42 minutes ago

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) " Spacewalking astronauts gave the Hubble Space Telescope a better view of the cosmos by installing a new high-tech instrument Saturday, then tackled their toughest job yet: fixing a broken camera.

It was the third spacewalk in as many days for the shuttle Atlantis crew, and it was expected to be the most challenging ever performed because of the unprecedented camera repairs. Astronauts had never before tried to take apart a science instrument at the 19-year-old observatory.

Hubble's chief mechanic, John Grunsfeld, deftly opened up the burned-out camera and plucked out all four electronic cards that needed to be replaced.

"Somehow I don't think brain surgeons go 'woo-hoo' when they pull something out," one of the astronauts observed from inside Atlantis.

To NASA's relief, everything was going well and the astronauts were even running ahead of schedule for a change. The first two spacewalks ended up running long because of unexpected difficulties encountered with Hubble, last visited seven years ago.

The daunting job unfolded 350 miles above Earth. Orbiting so high put Atlantis and its astronauts at an increased risk of being hit by space junk. NASA had another shuttle on launch standby in case a rescue was needed.

Earlier, Grunsfeld and his spacewalking partner, Andrew Feustel, accomplished their first chore, hooking up the $88 million Cosmic Origins Spectrograph.

They made room for the new supersensitive spectrograph " designed to detect faint light from faraway quasars " by removing the corrective lenses that restored Hubble's vision in 1993.

"This is really pretty historic," Grunsfeld said as he and Feustel hoisted out the phone booth-size box containing Hubble's old contacts.

Hubble was launched in 1990 with a flawed mirror that left it nearsighted. But the newer science instruments have corrective lenses built in, making the 1993 contacts unnecessary. The latest addition, the cosmic spectrograph, is expected to provide greater insight into how planets, stars and galaxies formed.

The switch " taking out the 7-foot-long box containing the corrective lenses and putting in the spectrograph " proved to be straightforward. It's exactly the kind of replacement work astronauts performed on four previous repair missions.

Fixing the 7-year-old camera was far more complicated. The instrument " called the Advanced Camera for Surveys " suffered an electrical short and stopped working two years ago. Ground controllers had been able to eke out a minimal amount of science but hoped to get it back into full operation.

Before it broke, the surveys camera provided astronomers with the deepest view of the universe in visible light, going back in time 13 billion years.

NASA considered this repair job " and one set for Sunday on another failed science instrument " to be the most delicate and difficult ever attempted in orbit. Neither instrument was designed to be handled by astronauts wearing thick, stiff gloves.

Grunsfeld unscrewed 32 fasteners to get to the camera's electronic guts, all the while working around a corner that prevented him from seeing everything he was doing. He used long tools designed just for the job.

"This activity is dedicated to studying the behavior of tiny screws in space," he joked.

NASA hopes to keep Hubble working for another five to 10 years with all the improvements. No one will be back to Hubble, so everyone at NASA, the seven astronauts included, wants to squeeze in as much repair work as possible. Already, they have given Hubble an improved wide-field planetary camera, fresh batteries and gyroscopes, and a new science data unit to replace one that broke last fall.

If all goes well, the fifth and final spacewalk is set for Monday and the telescope will be released from Atlantis on Tuesday.

I just hope they all get back safely and that everybody is happy that they will have high resolution pictures of a "past which possibly [actually] had ceased to exist as a present before its future spectators had entered actual present existence."

Does such intrepid resourcefullness have any long term psychological effects on the crew?

What caused a flawed mirror to be launched?

The Hubble reminds me of the mars rovers in a way, it just keeps on going. A little tweak here and a little tweak there and it's gonna be producing valuable information for 30 years.

Despite it's initial flaws, what a fantastic success that thing has been.

How much of the science involved in the Hubble was contributed by Intelligent Design theory?

Can you put those little headpiece screws into a pair of glasses with boxing gloves on? "A little twek" I can figure, but howna hell these guys do their click and clack routine out in space with all that gear on and still get those little jobs done. I hope the guys at NASA will be designing all future space platforms with really accessible parts.

Never mind the screws, I probably couldn't even get out there without puking in my space helmet.

I think farmerman might have been alluding to the fact that they do more than just a few "tweaks" and the menu of tasks is on the NASA site, but the most important is beginning now -- a new camera which weights tons but floats around in space like a Canon Power Shot.

But we can read all that in the papers LW.

What the sense of coming on A2K to be told what the papers say and the TV News?

Turn it up a bit.

Who is it important to? Those it's important to I suppose. Which is a long way short of everybody. You're getting solipsistic again.

Eugenie C. Scott among Scientific American 10

* May 18th, 2009 * NCSE

Eugenie C. Scott

NCSE's executive director Eugenie C. Scott is among the Scientific American 10 for 2009, described by the magazine in its June 2009 issue as "researchers, politicians, business executives and philanthropists who have recently demonstrated outstanding commitment to assuring that the benefits of new technologies and knowledge will accrue to humanity." The citation reads, in part:

Thomas Henry Huxley was the 19th-century biologist known as "Darwin's bulldog" for his defense of the great scientist's ideas. The 21st century has a counterpart in the woman who describes herself as "Darwin's golden retriever." Eugenie Scott has emerged as one of the most prominent advocates for keeping evolution an integral part of the curriculum in public schools in her role as head of the nonprofit National Center for Science Education (NCSE). ... With the ever changing semantics of antievolutionists, Darwin's golden retriever will have plenty more chances to act as a loyal defender of teaching evolution in the schools.

Besides Scott, the Scientific American 10 for 2009 are Todd Brady of Intel, Shai Agassi of Better Place, Wafaa El-Sadr of Harlem Hospital Center, Robert J. Linhardt of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Bill Gates and Michael Bloomberg, Bryan Willson of Colorado State University, Kristian Olson of the Center for Integration of Medicine and Innovative Technology, Andras Nagy of Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto, and President Barack Obama.