34
   

BBB gets the message

 
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 11:59 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
blueveinedthrobber wrote:

please elaborate. I'm interested I even gave your post a thumbs up Wink


Well, I re-read your post and maybe there's not really more to it. I am operating under the assumption that we actually care about both "I don't like" and "I'm not interested". If we only care about interest, there are ways to gauge that without voting. People show their interest by reading and by replying. I guess I assumed that we also want to be able to pass value judgments on threads and posts. For instance, thumbing down posts from people who are insulting and/or use profanity in non-creative unfunny ways. Those SHOULD affect reputation.
But now when I think about that, maybe we don't. I don't know.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:02 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
BBB, I am investigating this and you have over 6,000 topics and only 10 of them have a negative rating. Your "reputation" is also positive, and this thread is the most voted up thread of the day.

I don't think you got the right message from the community if you came away with not being welcome.
Butrflynet
 
  4  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:03 pm
@blueveinedthrobber,
Better yet, just remove the display of the number but keep the function. No one but the internal mechanism really needs to know the number tally to decide whether or not they want to read a post. We didn't have numbers on the old A2K yet hundreds of people viewed posts and then decided not to participate in the thread.

The only difference here is people can make their interest choice known by using the thumbs. Do we need to see the tally on that interest choice for the folksonomy to still work as designed?

On a more personal note, I think BBB is also extra emotionally sensitive right now. My brother had to be taken to the ER on Monday for yet another emergency medical problem added on to his long list of existing problems that make his quality of life diminish more each day.

So please, give her some of that A2K mojo to help her hang on to her dominion.

Mom, you need your friends here right now. This isn't the time to give a graphic image on a computer screen the power to drive you away from your friendships here.
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:05 pm
@Butrflynet,
That's actually the question I'm struggling with right now.

Showing only the positive votes, but still ordering on the sub of the positive and negative would eliminate all the negatives on the posts, but would be less transparent to the users. I'm not sure that it's better.

Other things that were always in consideration were to display all data, up, down and sum with the up being the prominent big number.
Razrez
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:07 pm
I probably just misunderstand how it all works, however, if the votes are only for personal navigational purposes why would they tally and be shown for everyone to see? I am not saying I don’t believe the intention but there might be a better way. I can see why people would take it personally.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:09 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
I think if BBB actually did get the message, she'd realize that the people who are "thumbing down" many of her threads/posts do so because they aren't interested in the topic--or the slant of the topic her (likely) c and p reveals..., or just don't like the copy and pasting of huge articles. This has been discussed many times, so it shouldn't be any surprise.

That being said, she should know she has established many friendships here, and thumbs don't address that.

Several of us are experiencing thumbs down. I wiggled under it at first, but I understand it. Hope BBB will take the time to adjust as well...and maybe adapt.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:09 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

BBB, I am investigating this and you have over 6,000 topics and only 10 of them have a negative rating. Your "reputation" is also positive, and this thread is the most voted up thread of the day.

I don't think you got the right message from the community if you came away with not being welcome.


But lets' look at her original post:

Quote:
I've been struggling to try to understand how the new A2K works because I'm not a techie and don't understand some of it, apparently without success. My few new posts have been receiving thumbs down. I seem to annoy so many people with my posting style as expressed here. I get the message. It seems I'm not welcome on the new A2K, so I will remove my annoyance from your new site. I wish the new site success and will miss many of you.


Have you considered that she may not have gotten the message because the message itself is unclear? That it is hard to understand? If this is the feeling that the rating system gives her (and others as well) then there's a problem with the system.

Just b/c it's easy for you to understand doesn't mean it's easy for others, and it seems the feedback that the system is confusing is growing.

Cycloptichorn
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:09 pm
@Robert Gentel,
How about starting a new thread about that?

Centralize it. Harvest the wisdom of the crowd. Get the community's thoughts on that one specific topic?

Very Happy
Robert Gentel
 
  4  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:09 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Digging deeper to only recent topics the numbers are more balanced, but it looks to work out against the article posts that are in their entirety and with no links etc.

I bet excerpting, more interesting articles and link attribution would make that go up. But honestly I think the biggest difference would be if you wrote more of your own in those posts. I think it really comes down to article posting, there've been threads about how people have "had enough with article posting" before and the message may not be that they don't like you, but just not the whole article pasting.

In the future, there's going to be a whole topic type for those kinds of threads, I think there's a good place for them but I get why members might not like them in the way we currently do them. I don't think it's personal about you but just an aversion to article pasting.
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:12 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Have you considered that she may not have gotten the message because the message itself is unclear? That it is hard to understand? If this is the feeling that the rating system gives her (and others as well) then there's a problem with the system.


Yes, I have. What the hell do you think I'm doing right now?

Quote:

Just b/c it's easy for you to understand doesn't mean it's easy for others, and it seems the feedback that the system is confusing is growing.


Cyclo, I'm not interested in discussing this with you here. I'm tying to get work done and you are being a pain.

Of course there are "problems with the system", that's why I'm here working on it. You are just being a pain getting in my way with this forum revolutionary role. Let me get my work done.
Below viewing threshold (view)
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:14 pm
@old europe,
We'd get less than 100 legitimate responses in all likelihood and definitely less than the needed sample to draw a conclusion off of it. So then I'd be stuck with having to explain why we aren't taking the advice (if it's not enough to draw a conclusion) and even more hand wringing.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:17 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Nobody twisted your arm and made you respond. If you are too busy to respond, don't respond.

If you understand that the system is unclear to some, why say things like -

Quote:
BBB, I am investigating this and you have over 6,000 topics and only 10 of them have a negative rating. Your "reputation" is also positive, and this thread is the most voted up thread of the day.

I don't think you got the right message from the community if you came away with not being welcome.


This answer implies that BBB is somehow misunderstanding the situation or exaggerating the way she feels for effect. You are stating that based on the data, she shouldn't feel the way that she does. This indicates that maybe you don't really get it. Or if you do, you aren't really communicating that fact very well.

You could have easily said, 'please don't leave, we're working on fixing the system to something that will be better for everyone.' Empathy and all that. It goes over well with the customers.

You guys need a salesman to answer people's concerns, yaknow, not just have the engineers straight talk to the customer. I've seen this sort of thing before in various places I've worked.

Cycloptichorn
Ticomaya
 
  4  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/8019/tom2mn7.jpg

"Well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?"
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:26 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

I've been struggling to try to understand how the new A2K works because I'm not a techie and don't understand some of it, apparently without success. My few new posts have been receiving thumbs down. I seem to annoy so many people with my posting style as expressed here. I get the message. It seems I'm not welcome on the new A2K, so I will remove my annoyance from your new site. I wish the new site success and will miss many of you.

BBB
You needed a number to tell you spamming the site with every hyper-partisan article you could find wasn't popular? Laughing (The thousands of printed objections told you nothing? Shocked) Consider that the rest of us are just here for your amusement and don't let the numbers bother you. While not a high percentage, perhaps, plenty of your threads grew legs.

You'll be missed if you leave by many... and who cares if that ‘many’ is lesser or greater than 50%? I assure you I wouldn't.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:28 pm
@Ticomaya,
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:29 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You guys need a salesman to answer people's concerns, yaknow, not just have the engineers straight talk to the customer. I've seen this sort of thing before in various places I've worked.

Oh God! That's the last thing A2K needs.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  5  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:29 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Nobody twisted your arm and made you respond. If you are too busy to respond, don't respond.

If you understand that the system is unclear to some, why say things like -

Quote:
BBB, I am investigating this and you have over 6,000 topics and only 10 of them have a negative rating. Your "reputation" is also positive, and this thread is the most voted up thread of the day.

I don't think you got the right message from the community if you came away with not being welcome.



Huh? Saying to her that I think she misunderstood the message shows that I don't understand that people misunderstand the message?

Seriously, at some point this has become your personal crusade to win your original arguments.
Quote:

You could have easily said, 'please don't leave, we're working on fixing the system to something that will be better for everyone.' Empathy and all that. It goes over well with the customers.


I've said variations of that. But quite frankly I'm not going to be upset at all if people leave. You guys are not customers and this kind of sense of entitlement that you display here is annoying.

So we need a salesman Cyclo? Then why don't you foot the bill. I'm paying more than my fair share and having you come along trying to pretend like you are a "customer" who deserves a "salesman" ignores that you are not a customer and that because of that there's no transaction to support a salesman.

But even worse, it ignores that you go around arguing with the salesmen and amplifying the negativity, so like I said. This is not about the site for you anymore, it's about you, your ego and your argument and you are going around trying to unite every example of discontent as support for your arguments.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:29 pm
@Ticomaya,
haha, that's exactly what I was thinking of as well.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:34 pm
@Robert Gentel,
which brings me to a question that I've often pondered....

First let me say that I and all of us are lucky to have this site over the years.... I realize it's not a subscription site and recognize that you've put who freakin' knoes how much blood sweat and tears into it. You are right, we're not customers because we aren't paying for anything.

But what are you getting out of this beyond personal satisfaction? Surely this must at the very least be an example for paying customers to see what you're capable of and is at the least a great promotional and sales tool.

I'm not trying to pry, I'm truly interested.
0 Replies
 
 

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