mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 11:08 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Then there are very few facts in any of Obama's plans and goals, because they have not occurred, and may not.
Laughing This is true of everyone's plans and goals. (What do you find so interesting about creating such ridiculous straw man arguments?) Reminds me of an old Russian Proverb (according to my Russian friend), "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans."


I'm trying to show that there is no way anyone can know for sure what Obama is going to do.
For all we know, he isnt going to do anything he claims, and may do the exact opposite of what he says his plans are.

I am trying to show that we cant know what any candidate will do
in the future, and that all we can do is judge him on the present and past performances.

Obama has 3 years in the US Senate, and has spent 2 of them campaigning for President.
That doesnt leave much time to actually be a Senator and accomplish anything.
His record is spotty at best, IMHO.

Of course, McCain isnt any better lately, but looking at his overall political record it is better then Obama's.
To judge either man based on what they say they will do is silly, you have to look at what they have done over their whole career in politics.


How could you possibly trust McCain on anything, then? He's either lied or changed his position on every single issue under the sun over the last few years, as you well know.

Cycloptichorn


Who said I trust him.
I dont trust any politician, especially not one running for President
I believe it was Will Rogers that once said that any man that wants the job should be barred from ever having it.

But when you look at McCains overall record in politics, theres a lot more then just the last few years.
Has he changed his position on many things?
Absolutely he has.
Were those changes good for him or the country?
Not all of them, IMHO.

But at least he has a record to look at as a US Senator.
Obama has spent the vast majority of his time as a US Senator running for President.

That doesnt leave much time for him to establish a record or the credentials to be President.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 11:10 am
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Then there are very few facts in any of Obama's plans and goals, because they have not occurred, and may not.
Laughing This is true of everyone's plans and goals. (What do you find so interesting about creating such ridiculous straw man arguments?) Reminds me of an old Russian Proverb (according to my Russian friend), "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans."


I'm trying to show that there is no way anyone can know for sure what Obama is going to do.
For all we know, he isnt going to do anything he claims, and may do the exact opposite of what he says his plans are.

I am trying to show that we cant know what any candidate will do
in the future, and that all we can do is judge him on the present and past performances.

Obama has 3 years in the US Senate, and has spent 2 of them campaigning for President.
That doesnt leave much time to actually be a Senator and accomplish anything.
His record is spotty at best, IMHO.

Of course, McCain isnt any better lately, but looking at his overall political record it is better then Obama's.
To judge either man based on what they say they will do is silly, you have to look at what they have done over their whole career in politics.


How could you possibly trust McCain on anything, then? He's either lied or changed his position on every single issue under the sun over the last few years, as you well know.

Cycloptichorn


Who said I trust him.
I dont trust any politician, especially not one running for President
I believe it was Will Rogers that once said that any man that wants the job should be barred from ever having it.

But when you look at McCains overall record in politics, theres a lot more then just the last few years.
Has he changed his position on many things?
Absolutely he has.
Were those changes good for him or the country?
Not all of them, IMHO.

But at least he has a record to look at as a US Senator.
Obama has spent the vast majority of his time as a US Senator running for President.

That doesnt leave much time for him to establish a record or the credentials to be President.


Obama has had as much time in public office as MANY of our past, great presidents. Your argument is a non-starter.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 11:12 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Then there are very few facts in any of Obama's plans and goals, because they have not occurred, and may not.
Laughing This is true of everyone's plans and goals. (What do you find so interesting about creating such ridiculous straw man arguments?) Reminds me of an old Russian Proverb (according to my Russian friend), "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans."


I'm trying to show that there is no way anyone can know for sure what Obama is going to do.
For all we know, he isnt going to do anything he claims, and may do the exact opposite of what he says his plans are.

I am trying to show that we cant know what any candidate will do
in the future, and that all we can do is judge him on the present and past performances.

Obama has 3 years in the US Senate, and has spent 2 of them campaigning for President.
That doesnt leave much time to actually be a Senator and accomplish anything.
His record is spotty at best, IMHO.

Of course, McCain isnt any better lately, but looking at his overall political record it is better then Obama's.
To judge either man based on what they say they will do is silly, you have to look at what they have done over their whole career in politics.


How could you possibly trust McCain on anything, then? He's either lied or changed his position on every single issue under the sun over the last few years, as you well know.

Cycloptichorn


Who said I trust him.
I dont trust any politician, especially not one running for President
I believe it was Will Rogers that once said that any man that wants the job should be barred from ever having it.

But when you look at McCains overall record in politics, theres a lot more then just the last few years.
Has he changed his position on many things?
Absolutely he has.
Were those changes good for him or the country?
Not all of them, IMHO.

But at least he has a record to look at as a US Senator.
Obama has spent the vast majority of his time as a US Senator running for President.

That doesnt leave much time for him to establish a record or the credentials to be President.


Obama has had as much time in public office as MANY of our past, great presidents. Your argument is a non-starter.

Cycloptichorn


State and city govts are not really the same thing as the US Senate.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 11:13 am
You seem to think that State governments are capable of making important and life-changing decisions, such as abortion laws; why would those who are in it not be gaining important experience?

Once again, a non-starter of an argument.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 11:18 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You seem to think that State governments are capable of making important and life-changing decisions, such as abortion laws; why would those who are in it not be gaining important experience?

Once again, a non-starter of an argument.

Cycloptichorn


Actually, I am saying the voters make the decision, not the govt.

I didnt say that he didnt gain experience in the state govt, I said that stat govt wasnt the same.
Tell me, when was the last time a state govt made the decision to go to war in a foreign country?

When was the last time a state govt made a decision that could affect the entire world?

I am not discounting his experience in the Illinois state govt, but that is a lot different the the US Senate.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 11:20 am
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You seem to think that State governments are capable of making important and life-changing decisions, such as abortion laws; why would those who are in it not be gaining important experience?

Once again, a non-starter of an argument.

Cycloptichorn


Actually, I am saying the voters make the decision, not the govt.

I didnt say that he didnt gain experience in the state govt, I said that stat govt wasnt the same.
Tell me, when was the last time a state govt made the decision to go to war in a foreign country?

When was the last time a state govt made a decision that could affect the entire world?

I am not discounting his experience in the Illinois state govt, but that is a lot different the the US Senate.


California and Texas state governments make decisions which affect the world. Other smaller states, not so much, I agree.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 11:27 am
Let me make this as clear as I can.
I do think Obama would make a good President, but not yet.
Do I support McCain over Obama?
On some things, yes.

I just dont think Obama has the experience needed to be President.
I think he needs to spend a full term in the Senate, actually being a Senator, before he runs for President.

It has nothing to do with his policies, race, religion, or anything else.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 11:29 am
Actually... most other states just laugh at California... it didn't use to be that way.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/7/A/arnold_joint.jpghttp://home.att.net/~alanj.hall/FeinsteinDianneWeapon.jpg
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/barbara_boxer.jpg
http://aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/pelosi_psychotic_witch.jpg

If I were Arnold and had to deal with those bitches, I'd smoke dope too.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 12:43 pm
mysteryman wrote:
DTOM...

Quote:
what you post as "facts" are not, because they have not occurred. and may not.


Then there are very few facts in any of Obama's plans and goals, because they have not occurred, and may not.

Yet many on here take what he says as fact and that it can and will happen.

Will you hold them to the same standard?


as a matter of fact ( Very Happy ), i do. and i will, no matter who the next president is.

i've mentioned a few times on a2k that i needed more details from obama on just how alla this marvelous change will be accomplished.

and i'm not satisfied yet.

i do find it ludicrous to say something like "obama and his dems are gonna bankrupt this republic" while ignoring that very thing in the current republican administration.

all i can say is that mccain is gonna be pretty much more of the same from what i hear from him.

some people think that's just fine. but, i'm not one of them.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 05:14 pm
DontTreadOnMe wrote:


i do find it ludicrous to say something like "obama and his dems are gonna bankrupt this republic" while ignoring that very thing in the current republican administration.


Nobody is ignoring the current administration except the current administration.

Today's Republicans are well meaning, but they are easily sidetracked by every little piss ant thing the liberals bring to the floor.
The Republicans need to simplify their priorities and stop allowing themselves to be lead on wild goose chases by the Democrats.

Over the last several years the Left has done nothing but
lead the Republicans around as if they were leashed pets.

The Right is mostly doing the very thing the Left wants them to.
This way of doing the peoples business needs to stop right now.

If Obama is elected we the people will be rewarded with sharply higher taxes and
a much larger, forever growing, radically more expensive federal government.

At least the Republicans cut taxes - A move overwhelmingly opposed by Democrats...
The Bush tax cuts are the only things keeping our heads above water today.

If the Democrats are allowed to increase taxes sharply, it will kill this fragile economy and bankrupt this republic.

I don't want this to happen.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 03:59 am
Coming back to "email" quoted earlier ...

Quote:
"I am writing this to ask that you delete my email and not forward it. After checking my sources, information that was put out in my email was wrong. This email was meant only for my family. Please respect my wishes and delete the email and if there are any blogs you have my email portrayed on I would ask if you would take it down too. Thanks for your understanding."

Source: NYDaily

Full report @ snopes
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 05:12 am
Snopes is a Left wing organization ... not what you would call un-biased.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 05:17 am
H2O_MAN wrote:
Snopes is a Left wing organization ... not what you would call un-biased.


Beides that I doubt that ... the New daily certainly is .... well, not 'left' Laughing

(But perhaps this 'battle captain' is a commie.)
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 05:30 am
It may not be a Left wing organization, but it's content is pro-left and anti-right just like the big three media, left wing blogs and A2K.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 06:36 am
Nah, snopes is a good place.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 07:24 am
H2O_MAN wrote:
It may not be a Left wing organization, but it's content is pro-left and anti-right just like the big three media, left wing blogs and A2K.


You may have problems with a side that looks at the facts ...

... but most don't (see McG's response).

Besides that, it was published in the New York Daily, which origianally reported about that.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 07:31 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
It may not be a Left wing organization, but it's content is pro-left and anti-right just like the big three media, left wing blogs and A2K.


You may have problems with a side that looks at the facts ...


You have made an incorrect assumption ...
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 07:51 am
I often wonder if Snopes feeds lies to the media just so they can debunk them. There certainly have been an awful lot of viral e-mails targeting right of center news outlets this year.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 08:05 am
cjhsa wrote:
I often wonder if Snopes feeds lies to the media just so they can debunk them. There certainly have been an awful lot of viral e-mails targeting right of center news outlets this year.


http://i33.tinypic.com/5e5ziu.jpg

Snopes didn't report about this until it was posted/published) in the Daily News blog ...
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 08:11 am
Uh, Walt, it's all over the news here. There are partial truths there. But that is exactly what I'm talking about. Who is feeding this stuff to the media?
0 Replies
 
 

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