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Gen. Clark and That POW Thing McCain Hates Talking About

 
 
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:13 am
Gen. Clark and That POW Thing McCain Hates Talking About
by Paul Waldman
Posted July 1, 2008

The knives sure are out for retired Gen. Wesley Clark.

In case you missed it: Interviewed by CBS' Bob Schieffer on Sunday's Face the Nation, Clark said that for all the national security experience John McCain claims, he never held a position of command during wartime. "I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war," Clark said. "He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility." Clark then continued, "But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in Air -- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, 'I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it publicly?' He hasn't made those calls, Bob."

Then came this:

SCHIEFFER: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences, either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean --
CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.


From the response of McCain's defenders in the press, you'd think Clark had claimed that John McCain was never really in Vietnam at all. CNN's Rick Sanchez described it with an incredulous expression as "dissing, some might say Swiftboating, John McCain's military record." ABC's Rick Klein accused Clark of "calling into question, in surprisingly sharp language, Sen. John McCain's military record." Over at the Wall Street Journal, Gerald Seib and Sara Murray were aghast: "The one certainty of the 2008 campaign, it might have seemed, was that Sen. John McCain would be acknowledged all around as a war hero for his service in Vietnam -- but apparently not."

Of course, they were just wrong: Clark didn't call McCain's record into question; he didn't say McCain wasn't a hero, and he sure as hell didn't "Swiftboat" McCain. Not only was he responding directly to Schieffer's question, using Schieffer's words, but he explicitly honored McCain's service. Those key pieces of context were left out of the reports that all three networks broadcast the next day, as well as many of the reports in newspapers and on television that followed. In The New York Times, Jeff Zeleny not only removed the context, but he simply repeated the McCain campaign's outrageously disingenuous charge that Clark was "impugning Mr. McCain's heroism."

But to understand why the press is reacting with such outrage, you have to understand what they've been saying about McCain for the last decade.

There's a myth out there that the McCain campaign and the media have cooperated to create. It says that John McCain is reluctant to exploit his Vietnam POW story for political advantage, so modest and full of integrity is he. We've seen this repeated again and again, not just by McCain and his supporters but by reporters who ought to know better.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

From the first time he ran for Congress in 1982 up to the present day, McCain has made his POW story the centerpiece of his entire political career. The key moment of that 1982 campaign was when he responded to his opponent's (absolutely true) accusation that McCain was a carpetbagger by saying, "As a matter of fact, when I think about it now, the place I lived longest in my life was Hanoi." At every point since, it has been the deft use of this tool that has brought McCain renewed attention or won him a key victory.

McCain has every right to talk about Vietnam all he wants -- it's his story, and no serious person has ever disputed the details. But don't tell us he's reluctant to use it, because he isn't. He talks about it to voters, he talks about it to contributors, he talks about it to reporters, he talks about it with seriousness, he jokes about it, and his campaign makes every attempt it can to remind people of what happened to him in Vietnam.

As I said, there's nothing wrong with that. But what happened with Gen. Clark reveals the McCain Rules, as he and the press would have us understand them. Here's how things are supposed to work: It's fine for the McCain campaign to run ads touting his time as a POW, create web videos touting his time as a POW, have him mention his time as a POW in speeches, and have him bring it up in debates (remember "I was tied up at the time"?). In other words, it's fine to have John McCain's entire presidential run be presented through the filter of his POW experience. Should, however, someone even ask the question of whether the fact that McCain was a POW really qualifies him to be president, that would be a deeply offensive affront to all that is right and good, and must not be tolerated. Talk about having it both ways.

Let's keep in mind that no one seems to have argued with Clark on the merits of his claim. No one responded by saying, "General Clark is wrong -- in fact, McCain's POW experience does qualify him to be president." I suppose one could make that argument, but I haven't seen anyone actually make it. Instead, what they have said is that Clark was out of bounds to even raise the issue. To even assert that McCain's Vietnam experience isn't in and of itself a qualification for the Oval Office is such an unforgivable transgression that its merits don't need to be addressed.

There is, however, one person who wouldn't disagree with Clark's statement that being a POW doesn't qualify you for the presidency. When asked by the National Journal in 2003, "Do you think that military service inherently makes somebody better equipped to be commander-in-chief?" this politician answered, "Absolutely not. History shows that some of our greatest leaders have had little or no military experience. ... I have advised [a presidential candidate] that I'd be very careful about how much you talk about that, because you don't want it to sound self-serving." The person who said that was John McCain, and the presidential candidate he was talking about was John Kerry.

For years, we've watched as reporters have dropped the fact that McCain was a POW into their stories, apropos of nothing, as if it were merely part of his name... John McCain, who was a POW in Vietnam, visited a farm to discuss the dairy industry. I kid, but it seems that any criticism of McCain's character is greeted with "But he was a POW!" When Howard Dean called McCain an "opportunist" back in April, Chris Wallace of Fox News indignantly asked Sen. John Kerry, "Do you think John McCain was an opportunist when he refused to take early release from a North Vietnamese prison camp?" Just last week, The Washington Post's Richard Cohen wrote that though McCain has flip-flopped on immigration, taxes, and a host of other issues, it's really OK, because "we know his bottom line. As his North Vietnamese captors found out, there is only so far he will go, and then his pride or his sense of honor takes over."

So when Gen. Clark, or anyone else, says that the fact that McCain suffered as a POW forty years ago is really neither here nor there when it comes to what the next president will be faced with, it's no surprise that McCain's fanboys in the media react with such high dudgeon. After all, to suggest that the POW story is only one piece of McCain's biography, and not the be-all-end-all on which the next president should be chosen, is as much an indictment of the press as it is of McCain.
----------------------------------------------

Paul Waldman of Media Matters Action Network is the author or coauthor of four books on politics and media, including his most recent work, Free Ride: John McCain and the Media, coauthored with David Brock.
http://mediamattersaction.org/freeride/
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,231 • Replies: 43
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:24 am
Clark is an idiot and shows every time he's in public view why he'll never be anyone's VP.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:27 am
Brand X
Brand X wrote:
Clark is an idiot and shows every time he's in public view why he'll never be anyone's VP.


Brand X is an idiot and shows every time he posts on A2K.

BBB
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:28 am
Gen. Weasel Clark is not helping Jimmy Carter with a tan by running his mouth.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:30 am
H2O
H2O_MAN wrote:
Gen. Weasel Clark is not helping Jimmy Carter with a tan by running his mouth.


Keep on confirming what kind of person you are.

BBB
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:34 am
Re: H2O
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
Gen. Weasel Clark is not helping Jimmy Carter with a tan by running his mouth.


Keep on confirming what kind of person you are.

BBB


Why thank you for noticing - only a dumb ass would agree with what Weasel Clark is saying Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:34 am
The way Clark was trying to make the point was an epic fail because he's a dumbass....and he doesn't and never has been able to recover well.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:39 am
No, I think he was pretty right on. McCain being shot down doesn't qualify him for ****.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:41 am
Nor did it Kerry but Clark thought it qualified him.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:42 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McCain being shot down doesn't qualify him for ****.


Weasel should also point out that Obama being black doesn't qualify him for ****.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:44 am
What an utterly pointless thread. The author made one valid point:
Quote:
McCain has every right to talk about Vietnam all he wants -- it's his story, and no serious person has ever disputed the details.

The rest was either common sense or dribble. How do you stay awake reading so much of this crap? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 10:09 am
Defending Wes Clark
Defending Wes Clark
Lt. General Robert G. Gard Jr. (USA, Ret.)
Posted June 30, 2008

The controversy over my colleague General Wesley Clark's comments on John McCain have generated a lot of media comment, much of it negative. I have known General Clark for many years: we served in the same Army and for the same country. He's a patriot. So to suppose that somehow Wesley Clark would denigrate John McCain's service to his country, while praising his bravery during the time that Senator McCain spent in an enemy prison, is absolutely ludicrous. So let's check the facts.

On CBS's Face the Nation, General Clark said that he believed John McCain was "untried and untested." Journalist Bob Schieffer asked him to explain what he meant. How could Clark make such a claim when "you're talking about somebody who was a prisoner of war? He was a squadron commander of the largest squadron in the Navy. He's been on the Senate Armed Services Committee for many years. How can you say that John McCain is un-untested and untried?" And here's General Clark's answer:

Because in the matters of national security policy making, it's a matter of understanding risk. It's a matter of gauging your opponents, and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility.

As a retired military officer and a soldier who served his country for over thirty years, I can tell you that there's nothing in what Wes Clark said with which I disagree. He has not only stated the facts, he knows something about them. John McCain was a prisoner of war, an officer who served as a squadron commander, and has been and is a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. John McCain can put his service to country up against anyone's. But General Clark has served also -- and with great courage: he was wounded four times in Vietnam -- and like John McCain, he has met and seen the enemy.

Is what Wesley Clark said true? Let's check some other facts: John McCain made claims about progress in security by walking through the streets of Baghdad. But as I recall, he was protected by at least a platoon of American soldiers and helicopters lying overhead. In matters of national security, as General Clark pointed out, "it's a matter of understanding risk," and it's "gauging your opponents;" and it's also a "matter of being held accountable."

So I too honor John McCain. And, like General Clark, I acknowledge his sacrifice for his country. But being a prisoner of the Vietnamese and serving on the Senate Armed Services Committee does not automatically qualify one for the position of Commander-in-Chief -- understanding risks, gauging your opponents and being held accountable does. We must end this glib obeisance to sacrifice and ask deeper questions: is a man who sings "bomb, bomb, bomb ... bomb, bomb Iran" a man who understands risks? Is a man who says that we must keep our troops in Iraq until we achieve an ill-defined "victory" really know how to gauge America's opponents. If we want to hold people accountable, then let's stand behind my friend Wes Clark -- and hold John McCain accountable for what he's said.

Oh, and one more thing: today President Bush signed the GI Bill -- which Senator Barack Obama has unstintingly supported. The bill will spend $63 billion over ten years for increased college aid for military service members and veterans who served after September 11, 2001. Good judgment?

John McCain opposed it.
-----------------------------------------

Lt. General Robert G. Gard Jr. (USA, Ret.) is the steering committee chairman of Vets for Obama. Visit their official site or join them on Facebook.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 10:16 am
The thing that kills me about this kind of hoopla is that he supports Obama who has ZERO military or executive experience but goes on about how McCain doesn't have enough... Seems to me that this is just more hypocritical bullshit from the Dems. Float out a mine in the form of Walker, give Obama the privilege of denying what Walker says... It's retarded.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 10:41 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, I think he was pretty right on. McCain being shot down doesn't qualify him for ****.

Cycloptichorn


McCain never said it did.

It is Obama and his surrogates that are raising the issue. McCain feels his 30 years of public service, 20 on the Armed Services Committee and his military service are all part of what makes him a viable candidate.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 11:44 am
McGentrix wrote:
The thing that kills me about this kind of hoopla is that he supports Obama who has ZERO military or executive experience but goes on about how McCain doesn't have enough... Seems to me that this is just more hypocritical bullshit from the Dems. Float out a mine in the form of Walker, give Obama the privilege of denying what Walker says... It's retarded.

Read it again.

He didn't state that either candidate should have a specific amount of military service. He just said don't give McCain more credit for executive military experience than he's actually due.

Ya'll act like he spit on the flag or something... It's retarded.
0 Replies
 
Arendt
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 11:50 am
John McCain's sacrifices in the Vietnam war, in and of themselves, make him an unassailable authority on foreign policy, and political matters in general.

Wes Clark's sacrifices in the Vietnam war, in and of themselves, make him an unassailable authority on foreign policy, and political matters in general.









I expect the universe to implode any second...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 12:16 pm
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, I think he was pretty right on. McCain being shot down doesn't qualify him for ****.

Cycloptichorn


McCain never said it did.

It is Obama and his surrogates that are raising the issue. McCain feels his 30 years of public service, 20 on the Armed Services Committee and his military service are all part of what makes him a viable candidate.


McCain uses his time in captivity as a shield. He carefully positions it between himself and any questions pertaining to his ability to run the armed forces of this country; to question one is to question the other, in the eyes of his campaign, and depending on what ya say, you can attack the questioner either way.

Obama's 'surrogates' didn't raise the issue; someone else did, and Clarke responded to what they said with a very accurate answer. Please READ THE ARTICLE before saying stuff like this.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 12:21 pm
Keep in mind that Obama being black doesn't qualify him for **** either ...
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 12:23 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, I think he was pretty right on. McCain being shot down doesn't qualify him for ****.

Cycloptichorn


McCain never said it did.

It is Obama and his surrogates that are raising the issue. McCain feels his 30 years of public service, 20 on the Armed Services Committee and his military service are all part of what makes him a viable candidate.


McCain uses his time in captivity as a shield. He carefully positions it between himself and any questions pertaining to his ability to run the armed forces of this country; to question one is to question the other, in the eyes of his campaign, and depending on what ya say, you can attack the questioner either way.

Obama's 'surrogates' didn't raise the issue; someone else did, and Clarke responded to what they said with a very accurate answer. Please READ THE ARTICLE before saying stuff like this.

Cycloptichorn


The article was written by some scribe who discusses the conversation Clark had on face the Nation.

Clark is a Obama supporter. therefore, he is a Obama surrogate.

McCain NEVER EVER suggested his captivity was anything other than what it was, a bad experience.

I hope you Obamacrats keep bringing the issue up. It makes you look more foolish.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 12:24 pm
Quote:
0 Replies
 
 

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