They always say the US has the best health care in the world

gus, That's only one small part of "the best medical system in the world."

There was a recent media report about surgeon's mistakes; cutting off the wrong limb, operating on the wrong patient, disfiguring patients of plastic surgery, leaving instruments and other articles in the body of patients, and killing healthy patients.

Wrong medication, too much medication, and giving the med to the wrong patient are common.

Yup, we have the best medical care in the world, and we should, since we pay the most.

I read that story earlier today. I have no words for what those people did - or didn't do.

Best medical system in the world - for those rich enough to pay for it.

No money - well - die, then! Don't think of being a burden!

I have been appalled at the tales of some of our A2k mates who do not have medical insurance, and the difficulties they face, the horrific expense, the poor drug choice available to them at affordable prices, the total lack of caring generally.

Most Americans live in their own 3 foot circle universe...

Not arguing or supporting this, just tossing it for thought...

Technologically, our medicine is the most advanced, but among the top advanced industrial nations our delivery system is one of the worst.

On the other hand, an acquaintance of mine who recently came back from a trip to Europe had this to say:

"Europeans are always bragging about how great their health care is. They're going to need it with all the smoking they do. In Europe, everywhere you go, people are smoking like crazy!"

My FIL died of lung cancer. His insurance only covered about 60% of his treatment. My MIL paid $125,000 out of her life savings to pay for his final days in a nursing home and hospice. If he had lived much longer she would have lost her house.

[/QUOTE]My FIL died of lung cancer. His insurance only covered about 60% of his treatment.

My FIL died of lung cancer. His insurance only covered about 60% of his treatment.

Yes, he started smoking as a young man in the navy (WWII). An army doctor suggested he take up smoking to "calm his nerves". Plus, the military supplied free cigarettes at the time. He had quit about 8 years before he was diagnosed with the cancer, but the damage was done.

I had a friend who was a heavy smoker, and quit after the effects of emphysema. He always coughed, and learned of his ailment after I tapped him on the back thinking something was stuck in his throat. He then told me about his emphysema. I used to hear from him regularly, but he quit sending me emails about three years ago. I can only guess what happened to him, because I sent letters to his associates to ask about him, but never got an answer.

What if someone today makes the choice to smoke -- knowing that it is damaging to their health? And eventually, they contract a disease like lung cancer.

Do you think part of your income should be spent to provide medical care for them? Or do you think they should have to pay for their own expenses (minus whatever their insurance covers)?

This would make an interesting topic for debate.

However, I'm going to excuse myself from the discussion at this point -- because all too often what passes for discussion around here turns into a vitriolic name-calling fest.

I believe in universal health care for Americans. Smoking is a disease like any other illness; otherwise most people would have quit long ago. It took me three tries to quit, and I was successful, but I know it's one of the hardest things to do even knowing it's detrimental to your health. +

Most form of handicap and mental illness is not the fault of the individual; there are many causes for which we still lack answers. The humane thing to do is to treat all who need it with medical care; we're already spending the greatest amount on this planet for health care, and we're the only industrialized country on this planet that doesn't offer universal health care.

If we cans pend 13-billion every month in Iraq to kill and maim, we can surely spend money for our own citizens for better health care.

I pretty much agree with CI.

It's actually an all or nothing deal when it comes to health care. Maybe if we accept the fact that we are a better society when we take care of everyone equally, we will be more likely to care about what companies market to us. In the bigger picture - people will always take risks. It might be a kid who drives into a pool without looking, or people with a hereditary illness having a child, or a person who choses to ride a motorcycle, etc. All of these things might lead to a high health care expense. I would rather pay my share in a society and help these people than allow them to suffer for what might be considered a poor choice. The reality is we are all vulnerable the way the system is now. In America, an illness can wipe out anyone financially if they are sick long enough. Most Americans my age will never see an inheritance from a parent, the nursing homes will suck it up. United we stand, divided we fall.

Re: They always say the US has the best health care in the w

You can't judge a health care system by its most extreme examples, but anything to insult America, I guess. Probably you should have waited for the 4th to post this.

Anybody got figures on what profits went into Corporate pockets to keep all of you healthy last year?

Health care and "insurance" is a bad mix...

Well, I know I said I wasn't going to do this, but I will add this much:



This sounds like an accident that occurred in one particular situation -- rather than someone who has made the choice to smoke for months or years.



They can't help the fact that they have an hereditary illness: unlike the smoker. (And btw, I was a smoker for several years, and I know how tough it is to quit.)



Riding a motorcycle is not harmful to your health -- as long as you are driving responsibly. I think everyone is willing to acknowledge though, that accidents can happen.

But again, this doesn't really seem comparable to the person who makes the choice to smoke everyday -- knowing that it could lead to a terminal disease.

And re the smoking thing: I have a hard time believing that people, say, back in the 1930's or 40's were totally unaware of the health risks. They may not have realized just how dangerous smoking was -- that it could lead to cancer.

But having been a smoker, I know from my own experience that it doesn't take long before you begin to notice the toll that it takes on your health -- the cough, the shortness of breath, the congestion in the lungs. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that it's damaging your health.

So I can't really buy the idea that people back in the 1940's were running around, smoking their heads off, completely oblivious to the fact that it's an unhealthy habit.

Having said that, there is a part of me that thinks, "no matter what someone has done, you have to help them. You can't just let someone die." But there is another part of me that thinks people need to take at least some responsibility for their own actions.

It was not considered a health threat and doctors often were used to promote cigarettes. Do a Google image search of "doctors ads and cigarettes".



In a perfect world we would have to take responsibility, but it's not perfect. We would all have opinions on what is unhealthy behavior. I think people who chose to live in big cities are damaging their health because of the air pollution. Other people might think it's unhealthy to eat hamburgers and french fries. You can't draw lines because everyone will want a different line. I know some companies will not hire smokers because it makes their insurance rates go up. Try and find a company who will hire someone who has had cancer or a pre-existing condition that might effect their rates. It all gets very messy when corporations call the shots.

The reality is that American businesses can not continue to be the source of our health system. I run a business, I have 6 employees, I would love to give us all health insurance, but we cannot afford to do so. Health costs are making American businesses less competitive (just look at what's going at the car companies) and fewer of them will be offering decent benefits in the future. Most companies have cut their benefits over the last two decades. Most people will retire without any medical benefits other than Medicare. America's system is shameful compared to other countries and we are paying the cost in terms of personal bankruptcy and
unnecessary suffering. We need to fix it.

Not only doctors, but who amongst us oldies can forget the "Marlboro Man?"