Art a subject or an ability?

But I am speaking off top of head too. I think creativity can be awakened in people. Even if the result is just to go on the refrigerator, I think it is a useful state of being..

now youve gone from the specific to the global. We have fun on these lines cause there seems to be no corner in which we immovably stand. im more critical of the degree of creativity within people as individuals, rather than creativitys worth. Otherwise I like the statement
"the next best thing to great art, is the appreciation of it"

Im not so inclined to invest in a career in the arts, if no talent is shown going in. We may "awaken' creativity in everyone, as far as their potential allows, however, we dont subsidize all of it. id consider that a waste of my money.

I got a bFA more as a "hobby degree' to provide skills as a means of an avocation. Iwas always surprised at the many people enrolled in a rigorous art program who were carried through the program with no visible spark. They would solve problems posed by the instructors by ganging together and bruting it out. i never .associated with that since I was older and besides, I was, iMO, more creative than most of the class I know Im being judgemental but my meyers Briggs is INTJ and Im being true to form.

jl, talent , in any art can be easily recognized. It need not be danced around as if its a universal commodity. Thats why the games indutry spends bigger salaries for the real artists who can pencil and paper the game concepts and create the field, than they do for the computer graphics peoiple . The cGIs are merely a tool to achieve the ideas that the talent has created. You can recognize it in music, painting, sculpture, acting, etc etc. Im standing out on a ledge of disagreement because I feel that you seem to propose some sort of egaletee in skills, to which I respectfully say "piffle".
I believe we should educate our kids to appreciate and understand why a work is great (and what distinguishes great art from refrigerator art) some kids will show talent early and should be encouraged to go beyond. Im not saying we forbid those kids who wish to dabble in any art medium. They can become proficient and adequate, but not great. We shouldnt hold up hope that some kid is a Winton Marsalis or Picasso if they clearly dont show a spark of some sort of creativity and talent (they need both).
Talent is the ability to do, creativity is doing it like no one else.

shoddy work isn't the sole province of 'amateurs' - much of Rothko's work is deteriorating badly because of the materials he used. He certainly wasn't an amateur and his work is wonderful - it is just that he didn't put a great deal of thought into the archival qualities of his materials because he was wrapped up in creating and this has always been a problem with artists and will continue to be.

Many contemporary artists use bitumen - how will this work archivally? I think it will eat away the canvas in time. In the shorter term it makes for some exciting artworks.

I think some people don't have a great deal of imagination or insight and it would be very very hard work to get ideas across to them. Most have some ability which could be fostered if they had the interest.

In others a higher insight is inborn - a fascination with colour or form or light, whatever - even so it still needs hard work and practice for these thoughts and ideas to work on paper, canvas or other medium.

Good artists are hard working and draw and paint constantly and therefore are constantly learning and improving. Look at the prolific output of Picasso - sketches and paintings and sculpture - constant experimenting with new ideas. It doesn't just 'happen' - however good you are you have to work.

I think formal art training helps you to question and criticise, thinking ideas through and having a deeper understanding - this is what can be lacking in amateurs - but it depends on how much interaction they have with other artists, how much reading they do, how much they visit exhibitions, how much work they do, do they experiment with new ideas and ways forward etc

... that's my two pennyworth!

wha for do you (or any artist) use bitumen in painting?
Ive used it in etching as a ground for acid etching my plates. Faqscinating the various media and materials.

truth
Sorry, what's bitumen?

yeah, what's bitumen?

Farmerman - I agree (with the terribly long post) and I am always delighted to see that spark somewhere unexpected, like in someone's doodle who is not artistic. My brother, who is not well trained and has shown no interest in art took home the most wonderfully expressive self portrait the other day - he had folded it in half and was going to throw it away! I don't mind the fact that he still doesn't want to persue art, but just that spark that you know could be developed into flame is so exciting to find.

I also saw a friend of a friend's anime' sketch the other day that had it - who would have known (so many untalented dabblers in anime'...)? Too bad so many people subscribe to arbitrary genres...

bitumen...

Well, my artist friend who died last year had done, a while ago now, a series of paintings with a tar base, on plywood I think. Might be like the stuff we used to use in etching, called asphaltum... (I'm guessing). Or maybe it was "Henry's" moisture proofing material...

yes Osso - I should think it was asphaltum to you

very sticky and tarry and takes forever to dry, and gets everywhere! All right to use in college surroundings but not very suitable for home.

I didn't ever use it but my fellow students went through phases where they did and produced some brilliant work, using on canvas alongside oil paints.

Don had a big studio at home and was a meticulous craftsman, so I suppose he managed to reign the goo in.
If I tried it, I can see it now.. squish, squish...

mmmm! meticulous wouldn't really describe many of the students i did my degree with - except one - who managed to use oil paint in white Tshirts and pale trousers and disposable gloves and always remained immaculate - he left the rest of us paint smudged crowd in awe!

I believe an artist is born with a certain amount of raw talent, but to become a professional they must seek knowledge and training. There are many people who have no real "natural ability" as an artist but it is something that they pursue and become booksmart in, however their artwork usually seems to be lacking in imagination.

On the other hand people who are born with natural talent but never educate themselves, be it by self study or attending classes, will never really grow as an artist and won't be able to express themselves as fully. He/she will not understand why it is that they cannot move beyond their present level and their artwork will lack that professional quality.

This is my opinion, anyway. Thanks for listening.

-Anastasia

Welcome here at a2k, aldistar, especially welcome to the art forum! Do you do art pieces yourself? (I am a painter..)

Don't forget the ability to educate yourself. Van Gogh never had much training, but he did sketches. Most of art education is stuff you could do on your own, if you were motivated enough to draw, draw, draw all the time.

really well put and very true - trouble is they are inclinded to repeat the stuff from the books as if it is some sort of rule book to be obeyed implicitly

I think some fair amount of creative thinking can be taught. It involves a level of play, mental and visual play, that many people aren't brought up with in their home environment.

yes that's what i do with my class but at first it is uphill work!

Thank you for the warm welcome! Yes I do do art pieces, any media. I have done acrylics, oils, water color/gouache, pencil, color pencil, pastels, pen and ink you name it I love it. Most of my full color work is done in Doc Marten Dyes, however. They work like watercolor or inkwash but have much more vibrant colors. As soon as I figure out how I will try to post some of my work, I am also working on my website but that has miles to go before it is accessible.

It's kind of hard to see but I drew my avatar. It is Prismacolor pencil on canson paper.

heh, I like your signature...

Thank you! I like your Corgi! As soon as I get out of an apartment and into a house I'm going to get me one. They're so cute!

Pacco says Woof! He is acting princely this last day or two what with a corgi doing well at the big NY dog show. He's not a show corgi though, is bigger boned, and if I do say, possessed of a ranch corgi personality. I was lucky enough to get him from a humane society shelter - well, both of us were.