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What are the Obamas hiding now?

 
 
woiyo
 
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:06 am
The Barack Obama Campaign has so far refused to release Senator Obama's birth certificate. This refusal has struck a lot of observers of the political scene as rather odd. Unlike tax or medical records, a birth certificate should not have anything embarrassing.

Speculation, naturally, is somewhat rife.

National Review political analyst Jim Geraghty suggests a number of unlikely reasons:

One would be that Barack Obama was not born in the United States, but in Kenya, his father's country of birth. This scenario is very unlikely as it would require all of Obama's family and friends to lie consistently about the circumstances of Obama's birth. However, if true, it could mean that Obama is not a natural born American citizen and is therefore ineligible for election to the Presidency.

The scenario of Obama being born in a foreign country reminds one of the kerfuffle that occurred when some suggested that John McCain was not a real native born citizen for having been born in the then Panama Canal Zone, The media huffing and puffing became such a distraction that the US Senate had to vote to confirm Senator McCain's citizenship just to quite it.

The other scenario Geraghty comes up with is some kind of embarrassing name change. Say Obama's middle name was changed from Mohammed to Hussein or his first name from Barry to Barack. The problem is that in the first instance the new middle name would be no more or less unsettling than the old one and in the second instance it is a non issue. Gary Hart, who ran for President in 1984 and 1988, had changed his name from Hartpence to Hart. It was the subject of some humor, but did not affect his runs for the Presidency.

Wilder speculation will no doubt ensue, at least until the birth certificate is released. Maybe the people that Obama claims as his parents are not listed as his parents on the document? Unlikely again, but who knows?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/814125/barack_obamas_birth_certificate.html

First it was Michelles "thesis". Now his Birth Certificate?

What could be on it that would cause such problems?

Maybe nothing. However, maybe it says his race is "WHITE".
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:20 am
(I just deleted a post where I complained about the veracity of Associated Content -- I realized it's not originally from Associated Content, it's an opinion piece by Jim Geraghty of the National Review.)

I looked it up and there is in fact a lot of speculation about this. I don't know if:

- It's standard for a presidential candidate to release his/ her birth certificate

- Obama hasn't, in fact, done so.

I searched fairly thoroughly for anything talking about Kerry or Bush releasing their birth certificates as candidates and didn't find anything. Which isn't conclusive, but I remain unconvinced that this is actually a big deal.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:28 am
Nah. They are just letting the Conservative buffoons (who have found Obama's third grade detention record, and two overdue library books) run with this for a little while.

Let them blow hot air on a birth certificate (which will be easy enough to release in the future).

It will keep them busy for a little while.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:38 am
Hey, when they say "it will go on your permanent record", what did you think that meant?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:47 am
I love this little gem of innaccuracy -
Quote:
One would be that Barack Obama was not born in the United States, but in Kenya, his father's country of birth. This scenario is very unlikely as it would require all of Obama's family and friends to lie consistently about the circumstances of Obama's birth. However, if true, it could mean that Obama is not a natural born American citizen and is therefore ineligible for election to the Presidency.






So.. If Obama wasn't born in the US, even though his mother was a US citizen, that would make him not natural born and therefore ineligible to be Presiden,t wouldn't that make McCain ineligible since he was born outside the US?
McCain born in Canal Zone of Panama

The idiocy of some on the right is just amazing.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:48 am
Heh...! :-)


ebrown, you're probably right.

It seems like the longer these things stay out there, the more traction they get, though.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:49 am
I was heh-ing at McGentrix -- good point, parados.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:51 am
parados wrote:
I love this little gem of innaccuracy -
Quote:
One would be that Barack Obama was not born in the United States, but in Kenya, his father's country of birth. This scenario is very unlikely as it would require all of Obama's family and friends to lie consistently about the circumstances of Obama's birth. However, if true, it could mean that Obama is not a natural born American citizen and is therefore ineligible for election to the Presidency.



So.. If Obama wasn't born in the US, even though his mother was a US citizen, that would make him not natural born and therefore ineligible to be Presiden,t wouldn't that make McCain ineligible since he was born outside the US?
McCain born in Canal Zone of Panama

The idiocy of some on the right is just amazing.


You're not really this stupid are you? It's some kind of act, right?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:55 am
Why? Does the military aspect make it significantly different?

Quote:
Mr. McCain's citizenship was established by statutes covering the offspring of Americans abroad and laws specific to the Canal Zone as Congress realized that Americans would be living and working in the area for extended periods.


Interesting tidbit from that article btw -- Jennifer Granholm, who I think has been mentioned as a possible VP, evidently is NOT eligible to become prez:

Quote:
Mr. McCain's situation is different from those of the current governors of California and Michigan, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jennifer M. Granholm, who were born in other countries and were first citizens of those nations, rendering them naturalized Americans ineligible under current interpretations. The conflict that could conceivably ensnare Mr. McCain goes more to the interpretation of "natural born" when weighed against intent and decades of immigration law.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:56 am
ALL Americans are Immigrants living on the lands of native Indians.

LONG BEFORE the white man set foot on American soil, the American Indians, or rather the Native Americans , had been living in America. When the Europeans came here, there were probably about 10 million Indians populating America north of present-day Mexico. And they had been living in America for quite some time. It is believed that the first Native Americans arrived during the last ice-age, approximately 20,000 - 30,000 years ago through a land-bridge across the Bering Sound, from northeastern Siberia into Alaska . The oldest documented Indian cultures in North America are Sandia (15000 BC), Clovis (12000 BC) and Folsom (8000 BC)

Although it is believed that the Indians originated in Asia, few if any of them came from India. The name "Indian" was first applied to them by Christopher Columbus , who believed mistakenly that the mainland and islands of America were part of the Indies, in Asia.

http://www.nativeamericans.com/
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:59 am
McGentrix wrote:

You're not really this stupid are you? It's some kind of act, right?


I don't think you are acting. But please, expose my stupidity if you can.


[size=7](I look forward to poking holes in your claim with the actual US government sources.)[/size]
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 07:08 am
sozobe wrote:
Why? Does the military aspect make it significantly different?

Quote:
Mr. McCain's citizenship was established by statutes covering the offspring of Americans abroad and laws specific to the Canal Zone as Congress realized that Americans would be living and working in the area for extended periods.


Interesting tidbit from that article btw -- Jennifer Granholm, who I think has been mentioned as a possible VP, evidently is NOT eligible to become prez:

Quote:
Mr. McCain's situation is different from those of the current governors of California and Michigan, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jennifer M. Granholm, who were born in other countries and were first citizens of those nations, rendering them naturalized Americans ineligible under current interpretations. The conflict that could conceivably ensnare Mr. McCain goes more to the interpretation of "natural born" when weighed against intent and decades of immigration law.


Yes. the military aspect changes it completely. We guarantee our members of the Armed Sevices certain priviliges when serving abroad.

Quote:
ยง 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.


Poke away Parados. Prove that you are not really an idiot...

I am sure there is no problem with Obama's birth. He has far too much character to try to hide something that obvious.

Zippo, it wasn't American soil then, it was New World soil.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 07:14 am
If you really want to post the current law McG in defense of McCain then you should read it...

Quote:
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:


Under current law a child born overseas to an 18 year old that has only been out of the country for a year would be a US citizen at birth.

Now.. what was the claim made by the idiot RW author?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 07:16 am
Keep trying Parados, you haven't been successful yet.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 07:20 am
McGentrix wrote:
Yes. the military aspect changes it completely. We guarantee our members of the Armed Sevices certain priviliges when serving abroad.


Doesn't (d) cover the hypothetical Obama situation, though? (If he was actually born in Africa, to an American mother and African father, which we agree is extremely unlikely...)

Quote:
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

[...]

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;


(I'm not sure what "national" means here and whether Obama's father was one.)
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 07:21 am
McGentrix wrote:
I am sure there is no problem with Obama's birth. He has far too much character to try to hide something that obvious.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 07:21 am
Reread my question McG..

Is Obama elgible under the law you quoted? yes or no?
Is the law valid? Yes or no?

If Obama isn't eligible then the law you quoted would be invalid which means it no longer protects McCain's birth.

The author claimed Obama wouldn't be eligible if born outside the country which is asinine since the law you quoted would make him eligible.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 07:27 am
I don't know the circumstances of Obama's birth, I do know the circumstances of McCain's. Therefore, I know McCain is a natural born citizen and can only speculate that Obama is as well. If you can provide the circumstances for Obama's birth, please do so as it would clear this right up.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 07:29 am
This entire brouhaha could be settled very easily. All Obama has to do is release the information on his birth certificate, and that would be that, if he has nothing to hide.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 07:29 am
Get a grip Parados. Of course the law is still valid. And yes, if Obama's parents met the law qualifications, then it applies to Obama. I don't think McG is arguing that Obama is not a citizen. He is simply...oh forget it. You're a smart person and can figure it out for yourself. You don't need a clown to point it out to you.
0 Replies
 
 

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