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THE GENERAL ELECTION 2008

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 10:32 am
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
McCain fared far worse


One reason might be that he was heavily attacked from the right. There was more negative coverage from Fox than from CNN or MSNBC, as far as I remember that one study...

Rightwing pundits have been making devastating statements for months. Sample A: Ann Coulter about John McCain...

Ann Coulter wrote:
There is not a liberal in this country worthy of kissing Bush's rear end, but the weakest members of the herd run from Bush. Compared to the lickspittles denying and attacking him, Bush is a moral giant -- if that's not damning with faint praise. John McCain should be so lucky as to be running for Bush's third term. Then he might have a chance.


Ann Coulter is not 'the media'. Ann Coulter is a satirist most often skewered as a hate mongering viscious bitch by most on the Left when she targets one of their darlings or pet cows. She is a staunch conservative and mostly anti-liberal herself, however, and is quite equal opportunity in targeting those whom she deems worthy of criticism. Like all conservatives she gives credit where credit is due and does not allow partisanship to affect whom she will target for criticism. She will defend President Bush when he merits it, but he has been targeted by her more than once.

Likewise, you will NOT easily find any detectable bias in Fox News reporting re any candidate. Their editorial/news magazine formats are tilted right and there will be more advocacy for a conservative than a liberal there. I am intentionally leaving out the pundits both on all the left tilting alphabet sources and Fox News, however, and focusing on how the candidates are portrayed in what passes for straight news reporting these days. Fox is mostly fair. Almost everybody else of the MSM isn't.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 10:33 am
Foxfyre wrote:
According to the Pew Center who probably did the most comprehensive analysis, positive/negative was pretty evenly split between Obama and Clinton when they were running against each other.


No, that was the analysis I had in mind (Pew).

sozobe wrote:
Press release

Full report

Beginning of the press release summary:

Quote:
Barack Obama did not enjoy more positive press coverage than Hillary Clinton at the height of the primary seasonBut the trajectory of that coverage about Obama got progressively more skeptical, immediately after Clinton herself accused the media of showing preference during a February debate.


Good point re: McCain's criticism from the right, old europe.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 10:46 am
sozobe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
According to the Pew Center who probably did the most comprehensive analysis, positive/negative was pretty evenly split between Obama and Clinton when they were running against each other.


No, that was the analysis I had in mind (Pew).

sozobe wrote:
Press release

Full report

Beginning of the press release summary:

Quote:
Barack Obama did not enjoy more positive press coverage than Hillary Clinton at the height of the primary seasonBut the trajectory of that coverage about Obama got progressively more skeptical, immediately after Clinton herself accused the media of showing preference during a February debate.


Good point re: McCain's criticism from the right, old europe.


A two-point difference between Obama and Clinton, however, I deem pretty statistically insignificant. Temporarily blips or variations in temporary trends driven by a sensational event of the hour will usually be skewed for or unfavorably toward any candidate. I am more interested in the overall coverage that will have the most effect:

ANALYSIS: JOURNALISM.ORG

Comparing Gallup, based on public perception, and Pew presumably based on what is actually occurring, there is a disconnect no doubt fueled by personal preferences/bias:
GALLUP
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 10:49 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Likewise, you will NOT easily find any detectable bias in Fox News reporting re any candidate. Their editorial/news magazine formats are tilted right and there will be more advocacy for a conservative than a liberal there. I am intentionally leaving out the pundits both on all the left tilting alphabet sources and Fox News, however, and focusing on how the candidates are portrayed in what passes for straight news reporting these days. Fox is mostly fair. Almost everybody else of the MSM isn't.



Are you sure? A bit back, you've linked to this study which took a look at media narratives and the candidates.

I'm sure you remember posting this, but I'm not so sure whether or not you went further than the first page.


Here's what the study found:

Quote:
Fox News

Fox News was the harshest of the three channels on the presumptive Republican nominee. More than half (55%) of the prominent personal statements about McCain were negative, the vast majority of which (49% overall) questioned his conservatism.

In its criticism, Fox News devoted more overall attention to McCain compared with the other cable channels, nearly the same attention it gave the two leading Democrats, 36% for McCain, 37% for Clinton and 39% for Obama. Both CNN and MSNBC, on the other hand, devoted far less of their coverage to the McCain campaign than they did to Clinton's or Obama's.

Fox News was also more positive in its portrayal of Obama's major personal narrative than either McCain or Clinton. Fully 69% of the assertions about Obama personally were positive, a number that rivals what he received on MSNBC (70%).

Fox News did offer more positive than negative assertions about Clinton, but less so than the other channels (54% positive versus 70% on CNN and 72% on MSNBC). In particular, Fox News gave more attention to the image of Clinton as unlikable and divisive than either of the other networks, (22% versus 13% on CNN and only 4% on MSNBC).


(link)


Feel free to go back and re-read.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 10:51 am
Foxfyre wrote:
I am more interested in the overall coverage that will have the most effect:

ANALYSIS: JOURNALISM.ORG


That's it. How funny. You didn't really read it, then?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 10:57 am
"Personal statements' from the media is not objective reporting. What I am getting from the exerpt you posted OE, is that Fox was by far the most objective and most fair to all candidates when compared to all the MSM outlets.

And yes, the pundits--those who make personal comments--were hard on McCain during the primaries as McCain was the most liberal on more issues than all the candidates running. Conservative pundits did not favor McCain. He still irritates them mightily. Those of us here on A2K have been sneered at and scorned because we dare criticize McCain even as he is our candidate.

I wake up in the mornings to Fox News, however. The pundits are as tilted right more than left as much as ever on Fox News. It is the ONLY MSM source where you will find that phenomenon--everywhere else the pundits will be tilted more left than right.

Again you will be hard put to find any advocacy or non-advocacy for John McCain or Barack Obama in the straight news reporting on Fox News. They are the closest thing to fair and balanced you will find in the MSM these days which is why their ratings are so high.

The primaries are over. We are now into the general election.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 10:59 am
And a look at the portrayal of McCain in talk radio might also be interesting:

Quote:
Talk Radio

In talk radio, the campaign was also a major focus. In the five talk radio shows tracked as part of PEJ's News Coverage Index, more than two-thirds (67%) of the airtime was devoted to the race. Clinton was the biggest focus of attention. Fully 37% of the campaign segments including her as a significant figure, followed by Obama at 30% of the segments and McCain at 23%.

While McCain got the least amount of attention on talk radio, he also got the most negative attention when it came to the personal narrative themes about him. Only 19% of the assertions about McCain personally were positive in nature while 81% were negative. By far, the biggest topic of conversation for McCain was the question of whether he was a true conservative politician. Fully 69% of the assertions about McCain, and 73% from the three conservative talk show hosts included in our sample, were supporting the notion that McCain was not a true conservative. From the conservative talk show hosts, only 16% of assertions about McCain were positive. Liberal radio talk show hosts, by contrast, barely paid attention to McCain during this time period; only 12% of campaign segments including McCain in any meaningful way.

One major reason for the amount of negative coverage about McCain on conservative talk radio was the doubts about his ideological credentials. Top-rated hosts such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity made McCain a key target during the Republican primary season. They argued that such candidates as Fred Thompson and Mitt Romney were genuine conservatives while McCain was a maverick and the candidate of the mainstream, or as Limbaugh calls them, the "drive-by" media.

If McCain was given a hard time from talk radio, so was Hillary Clinton. Thirty percent of the assertions about her suggested that she lacked core beliefs or was too politically calculating. (This included 16% of the assertions on the two liberal radio shows we tracked and 38% of the assertions on conservative talk radio.) Overall, only 25% of the assertions on conservative talk radio about Clinton were positive compared to a much higher 55% on liberal talk radio.

Obama found himself with much more support on talk radio, both for liberals and conservatives alike. Among liberal talkers, 67% of the assertions were postive. Conservative talkers, who would seem to oppose the Democratic senator's campaign, also gave Obama more positive assertions (55%) than negative ones (45%). That was a rate more than three times higher than they gave the Republican front-runner McCain. The motives here are impossible to divine, but one obvious possibility is that a desire among conservative talk hosts to defeat a familiar antagonist in Clinton made Obama seem more attractive.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:03 am
Foxfyre wrote:
"Personal statements' from the media is not objective reporting.


Those were the numbers tracked - mentioning of the candidates, narratives in the media - and the basis for the statistics you presented as evidence that McCain was treated in an unfair way by the media.....

If you now want to backpedal - fine with me....
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:03 am
Yes, Conservative Talk Radio that deals with real issues and substantive issues is quite successful in the USA while Liberal Talk Radio that can't seem to get a handle on being advocates for anything other than bashing conservatives has not been very successful if at all.

Conservative pundits on talk radio were as opposed to McCain in the primaries as were the Fox News pundits. They all wanted a true conservative as their candidate and McCain was not it.

Now, they still criticize McCain where criticism is justified, but you will find them being much more advocates for McCain versus Obama as McCain is defnitely seen as the preferable candidate between the two.

Again, we are no longer in the primaries. For all practical purposes the General Election campaign is in full swing.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:06 am
Foxfyre wrote:
The primaries are over. We are now into the general election.


Then why did you link to an analysis of media narratives during the primaries? Because the chart on the first page looked so compelling, and supported your argument of how poorly 'the media' treated McCain?

Or are you telling us now that the study you cited is completely irrelevant, because "The primaries are over"?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:13 am
Because Soz directed the conversation to media coverage during the primaries. Try to keep up dear.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:19 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Because Soz directed the conversation to media coverage during the primaries. Try to keep up dear.


Good. So it's relevant, and it should be mentioned that McCain received far more negative coverage from conservative media outlets, including Fox News and talk radio, right wing 'pundits' like Ann Coulter, hosts such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity than from other news outlets.

Glad we cleared that up.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:38 am
What news coverage McCain received during the primaries is relevant to news coverage during the primaries. It is NOT RELEVANT to a disparity in news coverage between McCain and Obama in the general election. Just to clear that up.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:44 am
Foxfyre wrote:
What news coverage McCain received during the primaries is relevant to news coverage during the primaries. It is NOT RELEVANT to a disparity in news coverage between McCain and Obama in the general election. Just to clear that up.


Why not?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 03:54 pm
Culled from today's e-mail--origin unknown:

When it comes to picking our next president, I can't decide if I prefer the smooth-talking, young, inexperienced inspirational candidate who promises to give my money to people who don't work as hard as I do, or the old, short, ugly, angry guy with one good arm who graduated in the bottom half of his class and managed to shag a hot heiress and become a contender for president.

It seems dangerous to underestimate that second guy.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 04:15 pm
^ witness Foxy inconspicuously changing the topic ^
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 04:21 pm
The question was too dumb to dignify with a response. Much as OE apparently considers my questions to be since he usually ignores them and changes the subject.

However, I AM changing the subject. I posted this clip on the Obama thread as rebuttal to Cyclops' and others indignant proclamations that Obama has been 100% consistent on his Iraq policy. I am hoping there are many more mini-documentaries like this to follow as I think he has had a hard time being consistent about much of anything and I don't think anybody has a clue as to who they can count on him to be as President.

FINALLY, the McCain campaign has developed some cajones and has fired the first volley at Obama on his flip flops and inconsistencies that provides good insights into his "whatever politics works at the time' game plan. This mini-documentary takes a few minutes to watch the whole thing but it's worth it. It is about halfway through that it REALLY gets interesting.

ROUND ONE: WHERE DOES BARACK STAND ON IRAQ (More issues surely to follow)

OBAMA ON IRAQ....ON IRAQ....ON IRAQ....ON IRAQ....
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 04:26 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
The question was too dumb to dignify with a response.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 04:27 pm
He has been consistent on his Iraq policy: that it was a bad idea, that the surge won't solve the inherent problems there, that we need to leave. Period.

Lame attempt from the McCain camp

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2008 04:29 pm
Lame policy on GWOT by Obama camp, lame.
0 Replies
 
 

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