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Tue 3 Jun, 2008 08:18 am
HELP!!!
My fiance moved in with me recently. Before he moved in we discussed the fact that we would be sharing expenses equally. He has actually been staying at my place most of March and all of April, but he technically moved his furniture in at the end of April. His lease for his former apartment ended in April, so I did not want to ask him for any sharing of expenses until he was completely out of his other place.
Now it is May and he did not broached the subject of money. I finally mentioned money and sat down with him and showed him what the average expenses were for the home. I broke everything down monthly/yearly/upside down and backwards hoping that this would inspire some contribution from him. After that talk, he said nothing, did nothing. After another week, I brought up the subject again and asked him if he was having financial trouble. He said "No" So I asked him how we were going to handle sharing expenses, and he said, "However you want." When I explained to him that he should probably contribute half of the expenses which means his contribution would be roughly 1,000/mo to 1,100/mo. He had all kinds of qualms about the fact that it may be contributing to the equity in my home. So I had to refigure all of the spreadsheets to show him that it in no way covers the morgage payments. This barely covers half of the taxes etc. See below:
At this point I am thinking this guy is test driving the situation to see if he likes it here and wants to put off contributing so that he can afford to move out. He constantly tells me how he hates my house, etc. It is a bit of a fixer upper, but I love it. I have 43 acres in the countryside in PA on the border of NJ where I work. He says he hates PA and won't even claim PA as his official address. He is going to keep his work post office address in NJ as his offical address.
I feel like I am being treated worse than a landlord that I should have to jump through hoops to get this guy to contribute.
Should I kick him out now. He has no other financial commitments. He has no children, no alimony from the previous marriage. Nothing. He has a lisence to practice LAW and has the ability to make a lot of money.
Anyone have any advise on how to handle this because I am at the end of my rope with tolerating this situation.
EXPENSE YEAR MONTH
TAXES - PROPERTY 5,000.00 416
HOMEOWNERS INS. 1,500.00 125
FOOD 9,600.00 800
FUEL - OIL HEAT 4,000.00 333
ELECTRIC 1,200.00 100
GAS 480.00 40
TELEVISION 600.00 50
TELEPHONE 600.00 50
INTERNET 600.00 50
23,580.00 1,964.00
.
I don't see why he would have an issue? Once you are married the house (at least in most states) becomes both your property so he gains from the equity. The other thing is if he was renting - he would still need to pay rent even though this may contribute to increasing the owner's equity in the property.
What I would suggest as far as splitting the cost of housing (rent in a sense) is to compare what average rent would cost or even what he paid before - that way whatever you pay for mortgage should not come into play - similar to any renter. All other expenses that you use equally should be split equally. I would write this up - sort of like you did, give it to him and then see if he agrees. Or he may respond better if you ask him to write up what he feels is fair and then you can review and see if it seems fair.
Either way, work on this together and agree on the monthly amount and then determine a due date (ie first of every month) with reasonable repercussions if things are not met.
It might also help to explain to him how his freeloading makes you feel. I remember my boyfriend (now husband) moved in with me - he had to move in because he was moving across country to stay with me. At first I didn't charge him anything because he made the big move and didn't have a job. I paid for everything other than his personal obligations - like a car loan/his credit card, etc. After a bit, when he had some difficulty finding the precise job he wanted, I explained to him that I was using some of my savings to pay for additional costs with him living there and was beginning to feel uncomfortable paying for so much and needed him to help pay for some of the expenses. Very soon after that he took a job - not his ideal job - to pull his own weight.
Quote:It might also help to explain to him how his freeloading makes you feel.
Agreed 100%. Freeloading is the right word. Maybe you are finding out what he is really like?
Quote:Should I kick him out now.
Only you can answer that. For what it's worth, I think that the very fact that you have had that thought, and have voiced it, makes me think the answer is a great big YES. If you are going to kick him out soomer or later, make it sooner. It'll be cheaper for one thing. If you find that argument compelling, that means he should go.
I wouldn't respect anyone, male or female, who didn't jump to offer their share. It says a lot about him that he hasn't done that.
Kick the bum out!
Managing finances is a major point to resolve prior to getting married. Much better to hash this out now than to find out five years down the road that your goals are incompatible.
Re: SHARING EXPENSES w/ LIVE IN FIANCE
sonderweed wrote:At this point I am thinking this guy is test driving the situation to see if he likes it here and wants to put off contributing so that he can afford to move out. He constantly tells me how he hates my house, etc. It is a bit of a fixer upper, but I love it. I have 43 acres in the countryside in PA on the border of NJ where I work. He says he hates PA and won't even claim PA as his official address. He is going to keep his work post office address in NJ as his offical address.
All of this is deflection from the real issue, IMO. If he doesn't like it there, then he needs to move out. If he stays, he needs to pay his own way.
Tell him to tinkle or get off the potty.
Mame is right. He should have insisted on contributing as soon as he moved in. That's what an honorable person would have done.
This is what an engagement period is all about...it gives you a chance to find out how your intended really handles things. Now you know he's the kind who will take advantage of your generosity. That is NOT the kind of person who will make a good life partner.
Consider this for what it is...proof of his true colors.
End it now. It will only get uglier if you marry him.
Re: SHARING EXPENSES w/ LIVE IN FIANCE
sonderweed wrote:
EXPENSE YEAR MONTH
TAXES - PROPERTY 5,000.00 416
HOMEOWNERS INS. 1,500.00 125
FOOD 9,600.00 800
FUEL - OIL HEAT 4,000.00 333
ELECTRIC 1,200.00 100
GAS 480.00 40
TELEVISION 600.00 50
TELEPHONE 600.00 50
INTERNET 600.00 50
23,580.00 1,964.00
.
I just saw the monthly stuff - food $800! What do you eat?
I've got to agree. Where's his sense of honor? He obviously has none and the sooner you learn this, the better.
It hurts now. Of course it does. After all, you had plans to marry him. But believe me, this is a blessing in disguise. Cut him loose.
Linkat said - Once you are married the house (at least in most states) becomes both your property so he gains from the equity.
I'm not arguing exactly, but I'm surprised. I don't remember this to be true in California, though it was never a question for me personally as we bought our house together. So maybe I'm incorrect, but it was my impression that one's house stayed in one's name.
I do consider what he would be paying would be rent and not paying on the equity of what is your house.
There has been another thread on this subject before. I'll try to find it and come back with a link.
OK, here's that other thread. It is not, after all, exactly the same situation, but still of interest..
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=113188&start=0
ossobuco wrote:Linkat said - Once you are married the house (at least in most states) becomes both your property so he gains from the equity.
I'm not arguing exactly, but I'm surprised. I don't remember this to be true in California, though it was never a question for me personally as we bought our house together. So maybe I'm incorrect, but it was my impression that one's house stayed in one's name.
I do consider what he would be paying would be rent and not paying on the equity of what is your house.
There has been another thread on this subject before. I'll try to find it and come back with a link.
OK, here's that other thread. It is not, after all, exactly the same situation, but still of interest..
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=113188&start=0
I know in Mass it is - I actually had this happen to me. I owned a condo and got married - at that point he had equal right - at least that is the way it was explained to me when we were selling.
Thanks for all of the advice
It is very nice to read all of these responses. Another perspective is great.
He left last night in a huff, so maybe he is not coming back. Probably not!
From our heated conversation, the hesitation in paying bills is really becasuse he is not liking the house. It is the house that is driving him crazy, and his comments since he has moved in have been driving me crazy. I just bought this house this past December. It is an 1800's home which he said he loved older homes. It has 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1 kitchen, 1 living room, and 1 den. But needs paint and to have the floors refinished. It has potential, but it is not a showplace. His family is very snobby and I guess he would be embarrassed to have them over?
ANYWAY, all he has talked about for the last month is me buying another farm somewhere he would like. He constantly points out farms as we drove through North Carolina and describes how they would be nicer than mine. And he even obsessively looks up farms in upstate New York and tells me they would be better than my farm.
That is a real ego buster though. To think that someone is so discouraged over a relationship and ready to move on because of a house.
Oh well possibly he is crazy. He just opened a legal practice in New JErsey, and he is telling me to move with him to Upstate New York. So I asked him how much sense that makes when he just started a legal practice here in NJ? His response was that he could do just as well in Upstate New York. Has any one been to upstate NY. There are barely any people up there by Canada.
So what do you think. Is he crazy. I think I have been driven crazy.
To answer, why so much money for food. NO i don't weigh 300 lbs. I am slim and sexy. LOL, sort of anyway. I had 4 children. 2 are now in college and 2 teenagers still at home. If anything I was buying prime quality meat/steaks to feed the fiance.
If he doesn't come back, are you okay with that?
Yeah, $800 per month for three or four people is easy to spend. Especially if you are including one stop shopping for groceries and also picking up detergent, cleaners, tampons (have you priced those damn things lately???) toilet paper, dishwasher detergent, etc.
So why doesn't he buy his own farm?
I can understand him not liking the house, and discussing other options with you. That does not however, take away from the fact that he is freeloading off you. Sounds like you'd be better off if he stayed pissed!
Re: Thanks for all of the advice
sonderweed wrote:
To answer, why so much money for food. NO i don't weigh 300 lbs. I am slim and sexy. LOL, sort of anyway. I had 4 children. 2 are now in college and 2 teenagers still at home. If anything I was buying prime quality meat/steaks to feed the fiance.
Ah two teenagers that completely explains it. I guess I very wrongly just assumed no kids.
sonderweed--
Add my vote to the "Ditch Him" column.
Not only is he freeloading, he's belittling you and your lifestyle choices. just to build his own ego.
This guy is not going to be a comfort in your old age--unless you think having an eternal teenage brat underfoot keeps you young?
How long have you known this guy?
How long did you go out before he moved in?
I mean, somebody I call fiance is a guy that I want to marry, and look forward to spending the rest of my life with.
In your posts, it sounds more like you picked up a lodger.
Maybe he does not come back and your problems are solved.
If he does, and you want to continue living with him, I think you should put your foot down on the financial contribution.
I don't like the freeloading at ALL but I really hate the nitpicking and complaining about the things he doesn't like. That doesn't bode well at all. And I am nonplussed that he would suggest you buy a farm that he likes! That takes gall.
I don't get that he's respecting you too much.
Kick the bum out!
Ditch the bum. As a lawyer he's well aware about expenses and whatnot, and also well aware that if he just gives you a check then you can spend it on whatever you please -- including building equity in the house.
If he wants a farm in NC, he can buy his own dang farm. And you might visit him. Maybe, if he's nice and you're in the area.
Send him packing.
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