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Insanity Illustrated - Non-diplomacy and Cuba

 
 
snood
 
Reply Sat 31 May, 2008 06:09 am
After just reading another post on another thread where someone is trying to reduce Obama to a one-trick pony who just goes around mouthing empty platitudes, I came accross this editorial by Eugene Robinson in the Washington Post.

In it, he talks about something I think illustrates just one of the many clear ways people will be able to make an informed and intelligent (if they are so predisposed) choice come November between Obama and McCain.
In the case of policy on cuba, the choice is between sense and insanity.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For nearly five decades, the United States has pursued a policy toward Cuba that could be described as incredibly stupid.

It could also be called childish and counterproductive -- and, since the demise of the Soviet Union, even insane. Absent the threat of communist expansionism, the refusal by successive American presidents to engage with Cuba has not even a fig leaf's worth of rationale to cover its naked illogic. Other than providing Fidel Castro with a convenient antagonist to help whip up nationalist fervor on the island -- and prolong his rule -- the U.S. trade embargo and other sanctions have accomplished nothing.

Now, with Fidel ailing and retired, and his brother Raúl acting large and in charge, the United States has its best opportunity in years to influence the course of events on the island. George W. Bush, as one might have expected, won't do the right thing. It will be up to the next president.

Raúl Castro is 76, and since assuming the presidency he has acted as if he knows he doesn't have much time to waste. In short order, he has repealed the prohibition against Cubans buying computers, cellphones and other consumer goods -- items that Fidel feared might facilitate sedition or promote counterrevolutionary comfort and lassitude.

It's true that these measures are largely symbolic -- on an average salary of about $17 a month, most Cubans can't dream of buying computers, and, in any event, the Cuban government still strictly controls access to the Internet. Likewise, any Cuban who owns a cellphone can't use it without paying the astronomical rates demanded by the government cellphone monopoly.

But at the same time, Raúl has encouraged the first stirrings of debate in the government-controlled media (which are the only media) -- something Fidel never would have allowed. Rumors that the government will soon permit widespread private ownership of automobiles, and perhaps even allow an above-board private market in real estate, seem much less implausible than they would have just six months ago.

I've been to Cuba as a journalist 10 times, and friends there -- including some harsh critics of the Castro regime -- say that there is real optimism about the prospects for change.

Bush's response has been a cold shoulder. In remarks a few days ago, the president did little but state the obvious fact that Raúl Castro is not, and never will be, a believer in democracy. He dismissed the recent measures as "empty gestures at reform," and then made an empty gesture of his own: He said he would change U.S. policy to allow Cuban Americans to send cellphones to their relatives on the island, something many families already do.

Raúl Castro is not going to transform Cuba into a free-market democracy. But he gives every indication of moving down the path that China's leadership has taken, toward making his country a free-market, one-party autocracy. That's not a perfect outcome, as shown by recent events in Tibet. But it's impossible to deny that the Chinese people enjoy far greater personal freedom than they did, say, 20 years ago. Why wouldn't Washington want to encourage Havana to become more like Beijing?

That would require actual engagement with the Cuban government, though, and Bush doesn't intend to allow anything of the sort.

Barack Obama appeared before the Cuban American National Foundation -- one of the most powerful and most strident of the Miami-based anti-Castro groups -- May 23 and said that if he were president, he would conduct "direct diplomacy" with Cuba's leadership. Earlier last week, John McCain essentially vowed to continue Bush's hard-line course.

Obama's into-the-lion's-den performance may win him some points for bravery, but it may not get him a lot of votes in South Florida. He has the right idea, however. The United States can attempt to influence any changes that eventually take place in Cuba, or it can harrumph from the sidelines. Several of Cuba's leading dissidents have urged the White House to end the decades-old trade embargo and the draconian restrictions on travel to the island. Bush pays no attention to those on the front lines of this struggle.

Stubbornly sticking with a policy that has achieved nothing in nearly 50 years is a pretty good definition of insanity.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,394 • Replies: 19
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 May, 2008 08:11 am
There has never been a sane policy toward Cuba, even in pre Castro days. I would be forever grateful to Obama, if he put some sense into the situation.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 May, 2008 08:22 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
There has never been a sane policy toward Cuba, even in pre Castro days. I would be forever grateful to Obama, if he put some sense into the situation.


The current policy makes quite a lot of sense: allow Soviet missiles on your island and you are banished from Eden, so to speak. I don't think any other policy is required or needed. In other words, there is no need for "change," in my opinion.

"Change" is only needed when the price of something might be $5.50, and one only has a five dollar bill; change of 50 cents would then be perfect.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 May, 2008 09:07 pm
Our Cuba policy has over many decades made us look petty for sure, but I think also unprincipled. As much as we hate it, Castro's power has come from the will of the people. Our Dissing Castro is no different than our approach to Hamas, we are all for the concept of the people deciding, unless of course the people decide on leaders we don't want them to have. Our rhetoric is proven to be hollow by way of our actions. You can't be a little bit pregnant, you either believe in democracy or you don't.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 May, 2008 09:14 pm
Foofie wrote:
edgarblythe wrote:
There has never been a sane policy toward Cuba, even in pre Castro days. I would be forever grateful to Obama, if he put some sense into the situation.


The current policy makes quite a lot of sense: allow Soviet missiles on your island and you are banished from Eden, so to speak. I don't think any other policy is required or needed. In other words, there is no need for "change," in my opinion.

"Change" is only needed when the price of something might be $5.50, and one only has a five dollar bill; change of 50 cents would then be perfect.


That was over fifty years ago. That is a long time to carry a grudge. When can we stop? When every single Cuban who was alive (at even one day old) at the time is dead?? Then can we move on and progress? Please??
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 02:14 am
Foofie wrote:
The current policy makes quite a lot of sense: allow Soviet missiles on your island and you are banished from Eden, so to speak. I don't think any other policy is required or needed. In other words, there is no need for "change," in my opinion.


Typical of ill-informed, ill-learned foofie, living his days in deep prejudices from old ages, (ice age, cold war)..

Brrrrr!
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 06:59 am
hawkeye10 wrote:
Our Dissing Castro is no different than our approach to Hamas, we are all for the concept of the people deciding, unless of course the people decide on leaders we don't want them to have. Our rhetoric is proven to be hollow by way of our actions. You can't be a little bit pregnant, you either believe in democracy or you don't.

Unbelievable! In a single week I've agreed with Finn d'Abuzz and now Hawkeye. Surely this is one of the signs of the Apocalypse.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 09:54 am
Obama has made some policy speeches during the campaign, and I sometimes wonder if his speech writers actually read any of the speeches he gives.

For instance, during his 2004 Senate campaign Obama declared that it was "time for us to end the embargo with Cuba.... It's time for us to acknowledge that that particular policy has failed."

But in a speech he gave in Miami recently he said...

Quote:



So, does he favor ending the embargo or not?

Personally, I favor ending the embargo.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 10:01 am
Quote:

It's true that these measures are largely symbolic -- on an average salary of about $17 a month, most Cubans can't dream of buying computers, and, in any event, the Cuban government still strictly controls access to the Internet. Likewise, any Cuban who owns a cellphone can't use it without paying the astronomical rates demanded by the government cellphone monopoly.


What it sounds like is that Cuba could be kept in its present state and used as an eternal reminder, i.e. people who show any interest in communism could be taken on tours of the place and shown how communism actually works. That would almost certainly prevent any recurrences anywhere else in the world.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 10:08 am
gungasnake, without the immoral sanctions a tour of Cuba would a blast. Even with the sanctions people from around the world find a pleasant vacation in Cuba. link
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 10:18 am
gungasnake wrote:
Quote:

It's true that these measures are largely symbolic -- on an average salary of about $17 a month, most Cubans can't dream of buying computers, and, in any event, the Cuban government still strictly controls access to the Internet. Likewise, any Cuban who owns a cellphone can't use it without paying the astronomical rates demanded by the government cellphone monopoly.


What it sounds like is that Cuba could be kept in its present state and used as an eternal reminder, i.e. people who show any interest in communism could be taken on tours of the place and shown how communism actually works. That would almost certainly prevent any recurrences anywhere else in the world.


The problem with your argument is that not only in the two important fields of healthcare and education the Cubans preform better than we do, but also when you look at the economy how do you separate what part of the lack of wealth is caused by their systems and what part is caused by the American embargo?? The Cuban economy has always been driven in large part by American tourists dollars, maybe if Americans were allowed to go to Cuba the Island would again be the garden spot of the Caribbean despite the Castro influence.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 10:40 am
Quote:
The Orthodoxy of Hope
By Jim Hoagland
Sunday, June 1, 2008; Page B07

Journalists hate quoting journalists. It seems so déclassé. But a fellow scribe recently helped crystallize the biggest problem I have with Barack Obama's foreign policy ideas. So a tip of the hat to Fidel Castro of Havana's Granma newspaper.

The problem: Obama has offered a bold and penetrating diagnosis of the global mess the Bush administration will leave behind. But the candidate's prescriptions do not match his diagnosis in their scope or daring. Either Obama is, for vote-gathering purposes, holding back his true thoughts, or he is bluffing on how severe the need for fundamental change really is.

Castro spotlighted that dichotomy in his column last week. The semi-retired dictator praised Obama as "the most progressive candidate for the U.S. presidency," but he immediately balanced that potentially lethal compliment by attacking the Illinois senator's vow to continue the obsolete, counterproductive U.S. trade embargo against Cuba.

The modest, sensible easing of restrictions on travel and currency transfers that Obama did promise in an appearance before the Cuban American National Foundation in Miami this month would produce only "hunger for the nation, remittances as charitable handouts and visits to Cuba as propaganda for consumerism," Castro claimed.


As usual, Castro's point is overdrawn. But it does underline the widening gap between Obama's repeated attacks on "Washington's conventional thinking" as the root of all evil and his reliance on established consensus when he is questioned in detail on Middle East peace, Iran, the U.S. position in its own hemisphere and other key issues.

My point here is not to accuse Obama of more-than-standard political tailoring of positions or to urge him to commit hara-kiri by needlessly taking unpopular stands. The point is that he is largely right in arguing that new thinking is desperately needed in U.S. foreign policy -- but he is failing to show how an Obama presidency would produce and apply such thinking to the policy disasters he decries.

This means he is not using the campaign to gather public support for the specific steps that he will need to take if he is to be a "transformational" president.

The Cuba embargo is an obvious case in point. Is Obama, in what he describes as this "urgent and pivotal moment" in history, seeking a broad mandate for . . . incrementalism? Does he propose to dismantle the embargo invisibly, step by step? Or will he in his first 100 days introduce a bold new hemispheric approach that would help produce the kind of change in Cuba that is long overdue?

Here's one example of new thinking he should pursue: The United States should apply to relations with hemispheric neighbors many of the lessons of the European Union and its half-century of economic and political integration. A functioning American Union that pools sovereignty is a goal worth introducing now. But that quest cannot start by tearing down the North American Free Trade Agreement and other hemispheric trade accords. A President Obama has to be willing to sit down with the prime minister of Canada and the president of Mexico without preconditions, such as demands for treaty renegotiations.

On the Middle East, Obama puts Israel first and foremost in U.S. policy and encourages the Palestinians to adopt the two-state solution that was first officially proposed by, well, President Bush. He rules out all contact with Hamas as does, well, President Bush.

On Iran, Obama would let direct negotiations with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's government begin without Tehran first suspending uranium enrichment. That would be a procedural change in U.S. policy, but probably not a productive one. In any event, the incentives and sanctions that Obama would use to get Iran to abandon nuclear power are largely the same ones now on offer by the Europeans and, well, President Bush.

The lack of new, specific and substantive foreign policy changes offered by either Obama or by John McCain -- the subject of a future column -- accounts for the two campaigns spinning their wheels so furiously over whether a president should talk directly to dictators. This is a duel of symbols, meant by Obama's supporters to show how stuck McCain is to Bush's "disdain for diplomacy" and by McCain's forces to show how naive Obama is, and details be damned.

Both candidates deserve better than this as a foreign policy "debate." After drawing sharply contrasting positions on Iraq, Obama and McCain have shaded the rest of the world in the hues of Washington orthodoxies. That may be a ticket to winning. But it is also a ticket to ineffective governance.

[email protected]



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/30/AR2008053002520.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 10:43 am
Obama might just be the guy to bring major league baseball to Havana.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 11:22 am
Quote:

"Denial of Food and Medicine:
The Impact Of The U.S. Embargo
On The Health And Nutrition In Cuba"
-An Executive Summary-
American Association for World Health Report
Summary of Findings
March 1997

After a year-long investigation, the American Association for World Health has determined that the U.S. embargo of Cuba has dramatically harmed the health and nutrition of large numbers of ordinary Cuban citizens. As documented by the attached report, it is our expert medical opinion that the U.S. embargo has caused a significant rise in suffering-and even deaths-in Cuba. For several decades the U.S. embargo has imposed significant financial burdens on the Cuban health care system. But since 1992 the number of unmet medical needs patients going without essential drugs or doctors performing medical procedures without adequate equipment-has sharply accelerated. This trend is directly linked to the fact that in 1992 the U.S. trade embargo-one of the most stringent embargoes of its kind, prohibiting the sale of food and sharply restricting the sale of medicines and medical equipment-was further tightened by the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act.

http://www.cubasolidarity.net/aawh.html




Quote:


Is the US embargo a form of genocide?

To answer this question, we must define what is meant by genocide. According to Oxford English Dictionary, genocide is "the mass extermination of human beings, esp. of a particular race or nation." Under international law, however, the legal definition is given in Article 2 of the UN Genocide Convention and covers a much wider range of crimes. Article 2 states:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Under the terms of the Convention, while the crime of genocide still includes killing members of a national group, it also includes, for example, "forcibly transferring children of the group to another group," which does not necessarily involve any killing at all.

Item (c), seems to be the most relevant in the case of the US embargo on Cuba. It does not require proof that any deaths be directly attributable to the embargo. Only that the perpetrator deliberately inflicted on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about -- as opposed to actually bringing about -- the group's physical destruction in whole or in part. This is relatively easy to prove.

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ137.html

0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 01:14 pm
Two points here....

One, if communism actually worked, no sanctions, moral or immoral, would have any effect on the place, they'd be prospering.

Two, the idea of somebody from a normal country taking a "pleasant vacation" in a place where people earn $17 a month is asinine. I mean, I wouldn't even worry about being robbed or kidnapped: I'd worry about being cooked and eaten.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 01:21 pm
gungasnake wrote:
Two, the idea of somebody from a normal country taking a "pleasant vacation" in a place where people earn $17 a month is asinine.


That makes all European countries (at least) asinine, but I'm not surprised of such assumption, probably dictated by ignorance of what really happens there, in Cuba..
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 01:33 pm
Literally thousands of Canadians vacation in Cuba regularly on a regular basis, as do many Americans who travel to Canada to catch their flights to Cuba. It's one of the top three vacation choices of the people I work with - Cuba, D.R. and Mayan Riviera. They love those all-in-one vacation spots.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 02:07 pm
gungasnake wrote:
Two points here....

One, if communism actually worked, ...




Quote:


KIBBUTZ

The kibbutz (Hebrew word for "communal settlement") is a unique rural community; a society dedicated to mutual aid and social justice; a socioeconomic system based on the principle of joint ownership of property, equality and cooperation of production, consumption and education; the fulfillment of the idea "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"; a home for those who have chosen it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/kibbutz.html


0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 04:24 pm
Granted having one percent of the people living in kibbutzes in a country like Israel probably won't be enough to sink the country...

But the best test was Russia and Eastern Europe. Those guys were not being deprived of anything by the West; they had every sort of natural resource in abundance and talented and industrious people and the whole thing collapsed on account of the system.

I mean, I've never studied communism per-se but I've made the effort to speak and read Russian at least well enough to read Pushkin and Tolstoy and you can't do that without learning and hearing about communism.

In particular whenever I've spoken with Russians whose parents or grandparents lived under the Tsars, I've always asked them the same question:

"Was life worse under the tsars, or under the communists?

The answer always comes back the same way, i.e. that life under the tsars was so unbelievably bad that it never occurred to anybody it could get worse, but that it didn't just get a little bit worse; after ten or twelve years of communism, people spoke of tsarist times as the good old days.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jun, 2008 05:26 pm
gungasnake wrote:
Admittedly, I was wrong, but hey, I make a habit of it. Granted having one percent of the people living in kibbutzes in a country like Israel probably won't be enough to sink the country...
0 Replies
 
 

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