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Hillary! When You Lose the NY Times, You Have Lost the Party

 
 
Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2008 10:21 pm
Give it up NOW!

The Low Road to Victory

Published: April 23, 2008

The Pennsylvania campaign, which produced yet another inconclusive result on Tuesday, was even meaner, more vacuous, more desperate, and more filled with pandering than the mean, vacuous, desperate, pander-filled contests that preceded it.

Voters are getting tired of it; it is demeaning the political process; and it does not work. It is past time for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to acknowledge that the negativity, for which she is mostly responsible, does nothing but harm to her, her opponent, her party and the 2008 election.

If nothing else, self interest should push her in that direction. Mrs. Clinton did not get the big win in Pennsylvania that she needed to challenge the calculus of the Democratic race. It is true that Senator Barack Obama outspent her 2-to-1. But Mrs. Clinton and her advisers should mainly blame themselves, because, as the political operatives say, they went heavily negative and ended up squandering a good part of what was once a 20-point lead.

On the eve of this crucial primary, Mrs. Clinton became the first Democratic candidate to wave the bloody shirt of 9/11. A Clinton television ad ?- torn right from Karl Rove's playbook ?- evoked the 1929 stock market crash, Pearl Harbor, the Cuban missile crisis, the cold war and the 9/11 attacks, complete with video of Osama bin Laden. "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen," the narrator intoned.

If that was supposed to bolster Mrs. Clinton's argument that she is the better prepared to be president in a dangerous world, she sent the opposite message on Tuesday morning by declaring in an interview on ABC News that if Iran attacked Israel while she were president: "We would be able to totally obliterate them."

By staying on the attack and not engaging Mr. Obama on the substance of issues like terrorism, the economy and how to organize an orderly exit from Iraq, Mrs. Clinton does more than just turn off voters who don't like negative campaigning. She undercuts the rationale for her candidacy that led this page and others to support her: that she is more qualified, right now, to be president than Mr. Obama.

Mr. Obama is not blameless when it comes to the negative and vapid nature of this campaign. He is increasingly rising to Mrs. Clinton's bait, undercutting his own claims that he is offering a higher more inclusive form of politics. When she criticized his comments about "bitter" voters, Mr. Obama mocked her as an Annie Oakley wannabe. All that does is remind Americans who are on the fence about his relative youth and inexperience.

No matter what the high-priced political operatives (from both camps) may think, it is not a disadvantage that Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton share many of the same essential values and sensible policy prescriptions. It is their strength, and they are doing their best to make voters forget it. And if they think that only Democrats are paying attention to this spectacle, they're wrong.

After seven years of George W. Bush's failed with-us-or-against-us presidency, all American voters deserve to hear a nuanced debate ?- right now and through the general campaign ?- about how each candidate will combat terrorism, protect civil liberties, address the housing crisis and end the war in Iraq.

It is getting to be time for the superdelegates to do what the Democrats had in mind when they created superdelegates: settle a bloody race that cannot be won at the ballot box. Mrs. Clinton once had a big lead among the party elders, but has been steadily losing it, in large part because of her negative campaign. If she is ever to have a hope of persuading these most loyal of Democrats to come back to her side, let alone win over the larger body of voters, she has to call off the dogs.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,492 • Replies: 26
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2008 10:26 pm
competition
Personally, I hope she keeps going until she runs out of any possibility whatsoever. This is a good example of democracy in action through the American political system. So many aspects of it aren't good, but the fact that she can still compete for the candidacy is good. Hope she and Obama choose to be less negative 'cause that part is not pretty.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2008 10:28 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/22/gallery.pa.obama/index.html
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2008 10:58 pm
Re: competition
Ragman wrote:
Personally, I hope she keeps going until she runs out of any possibility whatsoever. This is a good example of democracy in action through the American political system. So many aspects of it aren't good, but the fact that she can still compete for the candidacy is good. Hope she and Obama choose to be less negative 'cause that part is not pretty.


You are missing the point. Hillary's Tonya Harding going after the kneecap strateegy is hring both canidates. Her surrogates (Dickheads like Paul Begala and Lannie Davis) can continue to try to convince the super delegates that Obama is unelectable but all tha does is hurt the party's chances in November. This has got to end.

Like I said when you lose the NYT, you are done.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 06:26 am
I was definitely happy to see this, wonder what the effect will be.

I've been parsing this paragraph, I'm not sure that I get it:

Quote:
It is getting to be time for the superdelegates to do what the Democrats had in mind when they created superdelegates: settle a bloody race that cannot be won at the ballot box. Mrs. Clinton once had a big lead among the party elders, but has been steadily losing it, in large part because of her negative campaign. If she is ever to have a hope of persuading these most loyal of Democrats to come back to her side, let alone win over the larger body of voters, she has to call off the dogs.


What does the bolded part mean? That superdelegates should settle this, now, in Obama's favor?

This seems to be contradicted by the italicized part, which is saying that if Hillary "calls off the dogs," she then... what? Should win?

It's definitely saying that Hillary should chill already and that she's doing a lot of damage. But I'm not sure if they're saying that superdelegates should override the damage she's doing -- by shifting en masse to Obama -- or that she's in danger of causing this outcome, so she should shape up.
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 06:27 am

Interesting quotes from the talking heads there. I think they somewhat missed the point like they did in New Hampshire. Both PA and NH were very strong Clinton states where Obama made very significant in-roads. The media started to set some unrealistic expectation and slammed Obama for not meeting them. In both cases, Clinton could have won by 20%+. Still, it's a decent day for Clinton and she should make the most of it.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 07:11 am
Is this the same NY Times that you (Roxxxanne) have complained is on Bush's side and biased against the dems?
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 09:32 am
mysteryman wrote:
Is this the same NY Times that you (Roxxxanne) have complained is on Bush's side and biased against the dems?


I never said that the "NY Times" was on "Bush's Side" or biased against the Dems."
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 09:51 am
Re: competition
Roxxxanne wrote:
Ragman wrote:
Like I said when you lose the NYT, you are done.


I'm not so sure the New York Times has that much authority.
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 10:12 am
Re: competition
Gala wrote:
Roxxxanne wrote:
Ragman wrote:
Like I said when you lose the NYT, you are done.


I'm not so sure the New York Times has that much authority.



Cronkite didn't have the authority to end the Vietnam War either, did he?
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 11:26 am
Re: competition
Roxxxanne wrote:
Gala wrote:
Roxxxanne wrote:
Ragman wrote:
Like I said when you lose the NYT, you are done.


I'm not so sure the New York Times has that much authority.



Cronkite didn't have the authority to end the Vietnam War either, did he?


Right, back when Walter Cronkite occupied the central and pretty much only source for news. The concept of the 3 networks and the major papers doesn't fly anymore. The Internet and cable have taken care of that.

The NYT has lost a lot of its credibility over the years. Most recently, their publishing John McCains consort with an aid, or whatever she was. Judith Miller. Jason Blair.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 11:29 am
Gala, I work for the New York Times, and while I will agree with your premise that they have slid over the years, the slud factor has not yet happened, and until it does, I would ask you to keep your opinion to yourself.
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 11:55 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Gala, I work for the New York Times, and while I will agree with your premise that they have slid over the years, the slud factor has not yet happened, and until it does, I would ask you to keep your opinion to yourself.


Kiss my rotund posterior.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 12:01 pm
I love it when you talk dirty.
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 12:15 pm
democracy
So..it seems to me, that if Hillary stays in the race, but ultimately can't win over enough delegates, then her collective band of Super Delegates decides that race as she can't win enough to claim the prize.

The issue over her being negative is yet another problem. She MUST stop being negative, period! However, (the small d) democratic process is served if she stays in the race, if that is the desire of those delegates she and the voters she has won over so far.

Unless, it's your desire to subvert that democratic political process no matter what...just to defeat McCain?
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 12:17 pm
Would you repeat that, Ragman? Just slow down a little -- you're overly excited.
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 12:27 pm
Re: democracy
Ragman wrote:
So..it seems to me, that if Hillary stays in the race, but ultimately can't win over enough delegates, then her collective band of Super Delegates decides that race as she can't win enough to claim the prize.

The issue over her being negative is yet another problem. She MUST stop being negative, period! However, (the small d) democratic process is served if she stays in the race, if that is the desire of those delegates she and the voters she has won over so far.

Unless, it's your desire to subvert that democratic political process no matter what...just to defeat McCain?


She doesn't have enough SDs to change the lutcome unless hse wins roughly 70% of the reamining pledged delegates and SDs have been steadily trickling over to Obama. But the Clintons will continue their negative attacks and lies until the last dog dies and it is hurting the party.


When Indiana and NC are won by Obama enough SDs will commit to Obama to put him over the top. That is not subverting the democratic process nor would Hillary conceding "hurt the democratic process."
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 01:30 pm
Roxxxy,
Are you actually saying that the NY Times speaks for or represents the dem party?
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cyphercat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 02:30 pm
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
I work for the New York Times


Shocked Shocked Shocked

WHAT?!

Holy crap. All this stuff about living in the swamp, being a simple salt-of-the-earth old inbred yokel, yadda yadda yadda, and all the while you're really some kind of damned elitist!!

....Unless--does the NY Times have a staff capybara farmer...?
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2008 03:46 pm
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Would you repeat that, Ragman? Just slow down a little -- you're overly excited.


Gus, I'm neither excited nor am I in a hurry. But that's OK. I still enjoy your posts.

Roxxanne seems to have understood what I said. Perhaps you might re-read..or better yet...scroll on by it.
0 Replies
 
 

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