OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 04:42 pm

I am a very opinionated person,
yet I have no opinion qua Pit Bulls (nor Pit Cows).
Mayhap, I will develop one.





David
0 Replies
 
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 10:53 pm
I really do love Pit Bulls, but I don't want one. They are much too complicated and should be trained by people who are good at that sort of thing.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 10:59 pm
There is one and only one halfway rational use for pit bulls which I've ever heard of which is hog hunting, which is basically a redneck Olympics event which does not take place in urban or suburban areas. There is no possible excuse for anybody keeping pit bulls in urban or suburban areas.
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 11:22 pm
@gungasnake,
We had a neighbor in Michigan who lived behind our 5 acres, and he had a brindle pit bull (those look meaner) that ran loose a bit. Couldn't help it, I was afraid of that dog and would run into the house. Sure enough, my (rather large) black Pomeranian was screaming behind their house one day, and he did take a chunk out of her. As I was trying to inquire about his proof a rabies shot, he became irritated and said, "Oh, people are always saying nasty things about pit bulls...bla, bla, bla.

So, you're maybe right, athough the chestnut colored ones with the white faces are becoming more popular. Still wouldn't want one.

roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 12:49 am
@Pemerson,
By which, he made you the subject of the discussion instead of his dog and its shot record.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  5  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 10:51 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
There is one and only one halfway rational use for pit bulls which I've ever heard of which is hog hunting, which is basically a redneck Olympics event which does not take place in urban or suburban areas. There is no possible excuse for anybody keeping pit bulls in urban or suburban areas.


And what is the rational use of keeping a herding dog in an urban or suburban area? Or Doberman? Or a Rottweiller? Or a retriever? What is the "rational" use of keeping any non-working dog?
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 02:37 pm
@patiodog,
But isn't temperament to some extent inbred? Do you think that if a golden retriever/shepherd mix (which is what I have) was abused or kept chained up and frustrated by not being able to fulfill its instinctive working purpose, it would be as likely to become as dangerously violent as a pit bull or rottweiller in the same circumstance?

I'm asking because I can see a definite difference in the behavior of the three dogs I've had - all of whom were treated the same by me and given the same freedoms in terms of their environment and none of whom were ever able to fulfill their 'working' purpose. The german shepherd I had worried me (with sudden high strung and unpredictable reactions to nothing many times) on many more occasions than either my golden retriever/malamute mix or my golden retriever/shepherd mix. Her temperament was just different.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 09:15 pm
@Pemerson,
Sorry there is nothing wrong with a pit bull any more then there is anything wrong with a 50 cal sniper rifle in and of itself. In my hands it would be a great toy for long distance target shooting in others hands it could kill dozens of people at a mile range with not warning at all.

It is a animal that if not raised and control correctly can be dangerous but no more or less then any numbers of other breeds of large dogs.

When I was young person it was not the evil pit bull that was the devil dog but the evil Doberman that was claimed would turn on their owners for no reason at all and sometime kill them.

I had been around other people pit bulls and had watch them cheerfully put up with small dogs, cats and children annoying them.

Pitt Bulls can do great harm if raised and control incorrectly but they can also be loving family pets that if need be would die for their families.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 09:20 pm
@BillRM,
Rifles are not possessed of self-volition.
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 10:02 pm
@BillRM,
No, Bill, there is nothing wrong with a Pit Bull, it is the people who continue to train them to fight to the death of itself or another dog.

But, how long will it take to breed this viciousness out of the Pit Bull? Meanwhile, they are dangerous. It's like a lion that has been domesticated, seems very loving. Nobody knows when that lion will turn on someone, anyone. One of these people brought his pet lion to an elementary school where we lived in Michigan. When one of the kids was petting her she very quickly chomped down on his head. How long would it take to breed this wildness out of lions?
patiodog
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 10:38 pm
Whatever, everyone's got their preconceptions. All I can tell you is that I've worked with hundreds of these dogs, and don't consider them inherently any more dangerous than any other medium to large dog. That's not to say that they can't be dangerous, but if the solution is to legislate against the breed, other dogs will be used as trailer park ornaments, penile extensions, stash sentries, and fighting dogs. So next we'll get rid of Staffies -- well, they fit the pit bull description anyway, so they'd probably get wiped out in the first round of enforcement. Then Rotties. Then Dobies. Then GSDs. Then Malinois. Then Heelers...

And no, most pitties aren't bred to fight, so the notion that they are, generally speaking, being selected for this trait is bullshit. The truth is, the general demographics of pittie owners ensures that they're not being "selected" for any trait at all other than poverty, undervaccination, and exposure to second-hand smoke.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 10:43 pm
@patiodog,
I read where 200 pit bulls dogs are put to death every day in LA. Someone seemsto think they're dangerous and those dogs can't find a home. No matter how you feel about these dogs, humane canine-lovers everywhere should take note. No-kill sheleters sould be supported. The numbe one breed of dogthat end up in shelters across the cuntry seems to be pitbull or pitbull-mixes.

Once again, see the following link for info:

http://www.pbrc.net/misc/pbrcbrochure.pdf
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 10:53 pm
@Pemerson,
Quote:
But, how long will it take to breed this viciousness out of the Pit Bull?


They are dogs and can be as dangerous as any other large breed of dogs but no more so.

They sadly just at the moment are being the breed that evil people had turn to for dog fighting and for attack dogs.

Next it could be the chow chow or back to the Doberman or…….

In fact it look like the Rottweiler will be shortly replacing the Pit Bull as the evil devil dogs in the public mind.

In any case they are not lions or tigers or whateverthey are dogs that according to the recent studies and theories had co-evolved with the human race.

No short time frame of half ass back yards breeding programs to produce fighting dogs is going to had change them into anything other then the dogs that it took ten of thousands of years to turn them into from wolves.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 11:11 pm
@BillRM,
I'm sorry, but you can explain what you mean (and its relevance) with the following 2 sentences? I'm totally in the dark. Also, isn't this repetitive from earlier in this thread?

"In any case they are not lions or tigers or whateverthey are dogs that according to the recent studies and theories had co-evolved with the human race.

No short time frame of half ass back yards breeding programs to produce fighting dogs is going to had change them into anything other then the dogs that it took ten of thousands of years to turn them into from wolves."
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 11:22 pm
@Ragman,
Sorry you are in the dark but I do not see why you should be as I was replying to a posting that compare them to the unpredictable behavior of tigers or lions.

They are just dogs not lion and tigers and have the same basic behavior patterns as any other dog and that is not going to be change due to some assholes trying to breed fighting dogs with little or no skill in so doing in a short time frame.

The above posting and my other posting you claimed to be in the dark about seem clear very very clear to me.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 03:03 am
@patiodog,
Quote:
Whatever, everyone's got their preconceptions.


I got my preconception from a vet who said to me, 'Since you have small children, and you like medium to large dogs, you should look at breeds like golden retrievers, labs, or cocker spaniels and avoid breeds like chows....and I can't remember the others he said.. because I knew I liked retrievers and labs so I listened more to what he said to get instead of what he said not to get.

And he was talking about innate or inbred temperament and which dogs were safest to have around small children.

I was asking a question. I'm not pro legislating against or mistreatment or cruelty toward any breed.

Although I am instinctively afraid of sharpeis now - since one reached out and bit my two year old daughter in the face for offering it a treat. I would also never have another german shepherd - too protective of one person (me) in a home where other people lived. Everytime someone touched me - and I'm talking about a hug - that dog was coiled and ready to spring. (I took her as a puppy from someone who'd had a litter and needed to move somewhere they couldn't have a dog).

I think there are innate differences in temperament that make certain dogsm more inherently dangerous in certain situations. As long as the owner is aware of this (as I had to become aware of what to do to keep the kids around my german shepherd safe) it's not a problem in other words -if you live alone and you don't have kids and you keep access to people at a safe minimum - you're covering your bases.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 06:29 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
They are dogs and can be as dangerous as any other large breed of dogs but no more so.


From everything I've ever read that's simply wrong. Pit bulls are much more likely to kill or severely injure humans and/or other animals.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 07:10 am
@gungasnake,
When you read all the posts in this thread (viewing proven statistics not the opinions), you'll see that well-documented point has well been made over and over. Some folks want to repeat the same lie thinking they can convince others who may not have read the facts. This status, as has been stated ad nauseum, isn't JUST about Pitbulls (and the various Pit-mixes) but extends to Rottweilers, Doberman's, some Huskies, Chow-chow etc. The disproportionate skew of stats, shows Pitbull and the mixes are over-represented in dangerous mauling of elderly and small children.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 07:21 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
From everything I've ever read that's simply wrong. Pit bulls are much more likely to kill or severely injure humans and/or other animals.


So you go by newspapers stories?

Number one when I was a young man Pit Bulls would not have been on the radar screen at all it was the evil and mad human killing Doberman who the newspapers was giving a bad name to.

As far as severely injuring humans as this is the breed that now stand head and shoulder over all others dogs for drug dealers and such to used as attack dogs they are the ones who are doing more harm then others large breeds at the moment but as soon as such low lives turn to another bred of dog that will change.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 07:33 am
@gungasnake,
I'm bowing out of this discussion (again), lest I be rightly accused of doing the "you too" style of debate and stray off the real point here.

Once more, I state that I personally wll avoid dangerous dogs and suggest to my friends and acquaintences to pre-emptively avoid those dogs on the dangerous dog breeds list. However, I'll continue to support 'no-kill' dog shelters and will NOT support legislation that spefically singles out Pit bull and their mixes for disproportionate punishment. I will support any legislation that enforces punishment for dangerous animal trainers. Dangerous breeds are any of those large breeds that show up DISPROPORTIONATELY on police or accident reports and NOT newspaper reports.
 

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