OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 09:07 pm
THE REAL DEAL ON PITBULLS AND WHY YOU HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED TO HATE THEM.


1. cops will not engage in a stop if you have one with you.
people who have pitbulls are usually really into their dogs, they like to walk them. cops dont want to stop you, they lose money.

2. Pitbulls will defend their territory, more so than the "useless" breeds, who usually cower in fear when faced with an intruder. even a spaniel, or a lab will retreat when faced with a major threat. ive never seen a pit back down, ever.

3. pitbulls will die for their masters, will yours? once again, if a cop were to want to place a pitbull owner in custody, that pitbull is going to do its best to eliminate the threat, even if it means extreme injury and death.And come on, they bite hard. cops dont want that.

4. idiots like to use "the best dog breed on the planet" in dogfights. abusing them, torturing them, neglecting them, starving them...BREEDING THEM WITH INFERIOR KNOWLEDGE OF THE BREEDS TRAITS LEADING TO INFERIOR DOGS WHICH ARENT EVEN TRUE PITBULLS.

Do you see the big picture yet?

im sorry, the evidence is just to strong, pitbulls ARE BRED NOT TO ATTACK HUMAN BEINGS, GET A CLUE.

If a dog bites, its most likely id say, within reason, 95% the owners fault, NOT for leaving it unattended(which is their fault too), or not putting it on a leash*(which is also their fault), or even if it escapes the leash(which might not be..), but for not training their dog properly.[/B}

period.

they have done numerous tests on the "bite threshhold" of dogs, every dog had the same score,EXCEPT FOR , U GUESSED IT, pits were 30% less likely to attack than every other dog they tested, i wish i had the link.
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 09:10 pm
roger wrote:
I can't believe anyone gets a pit bull because they're pretty. They get them because they are dangerous. They are.


im sorry, im proof of the exact opposite of that sentence.

ill be sure to immediately post some of my dogs pics here.

thanks for the reminder.
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 09:19 pm
Linkat wrote:
I had a neighbor that had just gotten a new puppy. He seemed so happy and loving and sweet, but he also looked very close to being a pit bull. All the neighbors remarked - that's a pit bull. She said, no he's a bull terrier. Duh that's a pit bull. Well puppy began to grow up and he was still seemed sweet and happy, but strong. The lady that owned him wasn't the brightest bulb by any means and the dog would drag her around the neighborhood.

My husband said don't let the kids near that dog even though on the surface he seemed so friendly and sweet. Well one day it happened. He attacked unprovoked an elderly neighbor. She ended up putting the dog down. It was either that or be sued.

I am not a fan of blaming a breed, however, I feel strongly that most people should not own pit bulls. This was a sweet dog, and this woman never taught him to be mean or fight yet it was his instinct to attack and she could not control him.


inexperienced dog owners should stick to the spaniels and labs. or submissive people in general,and people who think smacking their children is bad, its not. people just abuse it. dogs fill power vacuums.

a noobie buying a pit is like me buying an ak-47 right off the bat, instead of learning with a pistol or something, or like driving a race car and u dotn even have a license.

Oh yeah, in case your wondering i have my fanciers.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 09:31 pm
OGIONIK wrote:
THE REAL DEAL ON PITBULLS AND WHY YOU HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED TO HATE THEM.


1. cops will not engage in a stop if you have one with you.
people who have pitbulls are usually really into their dogs, they like to walk them. cops dont want to stop you, they lose money.


Okay, Dag, okay. I knew who you were referring to, and this isn't it.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 09:39 pm
Chai wrote:
I don't trust chows either.
We are on our second black Chow and thus over a decade of Chow-ness. I feel it's much more the owner than the breed.
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 10:52 pm
speaking of chows, every chow ive met is a raving lunatic psycho who needs to be put down, except the one who was actually taken care of.

other day, the walk sign was red, i didnt notice, i start crossing the street, cop lights me up, guns his motor, my dog comes out from the wall , he focuses his spotlight on the dog, turns the light off , switches lanes and keeps going.

thats when the scope of the dog prejudice hit me, gangsters like dogs, so they ban the dogs so gangster cant have them, because cops are frightened of them. and thats the real deal. OTHERWISE ALL GANGSTERS WOULD ALWAYS HAVE THEM,A ND THEN COPS WOULDNT WANT TO MAKE ANY STOPS! but thats not how it really works, they are just using propoganda to get everyone to hate the best guardian ever created on earth.

its either that or the gov't is completely ignorant.

id rather have a cunning-ruthless leader instead of a dumb-ignorant one.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 11:31 pm
OGIONIK wrote:
a noobie buying a pit is like me buying an ak-47 right off the bat, instead of learning with a pistol or something, or like driving a race car and u dotn even have a license.


Are you trying to make the case for pit bulls or against pit bulls?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2008 11:31 pm
OGIONIK wrote:
Do you see the big picture yet?


What ... pit bulls are the best dogs a criminal could own? I don't disagree.


Quote:
im sorry, the evidence is just to strong, pitbulls ARE BRED NOT TO ATTACK HUMAN BEINGS, GET A CLUE.


Point to one person on this thread who has made that claim.

Quote:
they have done numerous tests on the "bite threshhold" of dogs, every dog had the same score,EXCEPT FOR , U GUESSED IT, pits were 30% less likely to attack than every other dog they tested, i wish i had the link.


Well that is interesting. But I don't believe it one bit.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 07:36 am
rog, you are right, that wasn't it, alas.
0 Replies
 
CowDoc
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 07:45 am
This debate never ends. The facts are pretty simple - pit bulls aren't all that likely to bite. In fact, the last list I saw showed Chows as most likely, followed by Cocker Spaniels and Poodles. Pit bulls weren't in the top ten. However, the masseter muscles on pits are proportionately much larger than other breeds. When they do bite, they are much more likely to do serious damage. Although I really don't know the genetic background of my dog Goofy, I think she may have a bit of the pit in there somewhere. That hasn't made her a biter in any way. She was a little aggressive in her youth, but that was pretty easy to train her out of. In fact, a couple of Australian Shepherds attacked her a couple of years ago, and all she did was try to avoid them while they bit her on her snout. My professional experiences with pit bulls were pretty much the norm. Most of the ones I worked with were sweethearts, but some of the lowlife types who showed up had true nasties. Whether these dogs are born or made is immaterial. Once their true nature becomes apparent, the world is a better place without them.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 07:50 am
i can attest to biting cocker spaniels. we had one for 15 years and all of us bite marks in various places. lovely dog, but what a biter. had to wash him with a muzzle on all his life.
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 09:29 am
Thanks for the information, CowDoc.

It really does come down to training and the training of the handler is every bit as inportant as the dog's training.
0 Replies
 
2PacksAday
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 12:31 pm
CowDoc wrote:
This debate never ends. The facts are pretty simple - pit bulls aren't all that likely to bite. In fact, the last list I saw showed Chows as most likely, followed by Cocker Spaniels and Poodles. Pit bulls weren't in the top ten. However, the masseter muscles on pits are proportionately much larger than other breeds. When they do bite, they are much more likely to do serious damage. Although I really don't know the genetic background of my dog Goofy, I think she may have a bit of the pit in there somewhere. That hasn't made her a biter in any way. She was a little aggressive in her youth, but that was pretty easy to train her out of. In fact, a couple of Australian Shepherds attacked her a couple of years ago, and all she did was try to avoid them while they bit her on her snout. My professional experiences with pit bulls were pretty much the norm. Most of the ones I worked with were sweethearts, but some of the lowlife types who showed up had true nasties. Whether these dogs are born or made is immaterial. Once their true nature becomes apparent, the world is a better place without them.


Ditto.

---------


My wife is a dog groomer, has been for nearly 20 years, and I've been her "assistant" about a billion times.

Chows, she basically refuses to work on a chow, they are just too unpredictable....she places them at the top of the list of biters...but I stress the singular "bite", being bit is not the same as being mauled. A chow will bite and release, but when a Pit get to that point, they are more inclined to go for the gusto, not stop til stopped. She has worked on a few pits, but only while they are puppies, and she always tells the owner that at some point, usually when the muscles begin to form and they lose the playful puppy attitude, they will have to find someone else to work on them. She can't afford to chance a damaged hand, wrist, or arm....it's just not worth it.

My job is usually just a holder, most dogs don't like having their feet, ears or face messed with, so I do my best impersonation of an octopuss, and the wrestling match begins....I still get bit/nipped a lot. Without a doubt, I'd say I've been bitten the most by members of the Spitz breeds....Pomeranians are quick little devils, but it's more of a pinch...no harm done, but most Spitzs we simply have to muzzle....even the midsize ones, American Eskimo and such, can do some major damage. If you look at the link Diane posted, at the bottom of page 2, several of those dogs listed fall into the Spitz-like category....wiki has a nice list of breeds with Spitzish traits. Cockers are very hard to read, they have gunfighter eyes, it's one of the breeds that I always have to ask, is it ok for me to pet this one. I won't even comment on poodles, as I have nothing good to say....and Schnauzers, they can really be a problem child with the lack of proper "parenting"....we have one, if he could, I know he would carve a swastika in his forehead....Charlie Manson style.

When we first meet a new client, you can often tell how the dog will act by the actions of the owner....if the owner is a confident, down to earth type of person, chances are the dog will not be a problem. If the person is high strung, and frets about everything imaginable....."I can't stand to leave my baby here for over an hour, can you work faster"....we are going to get bit. Of course that's just generalized, some dogs are just nuts, some are naturally angels, but it rings true quite often.

I never did care much for the breed....I like dogs with faces...but Shi'tzu's make up the bulk of her clientele, and they tend to be sweethearts. We have one that comes in every Friday, and he {Gizmo} is the perfect dog, if they all behaved like him, my wife's job would be a breeze. Personally I am partial to Golden Retrievers, there is no other breed with their personality and attitude, extremely friendly, intelligent, energetic, and bordering on being downright goofy, all in a full sized package. I write this as I reach down and pet my 85 and 90 pound fluffy balls of goofiness....who are never more than an arms length from me.
0 Replies
 
cyphercat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 01:45 pm
2PacksAday wrote:
Cockers are very hard to read, they have gunfighter eyes, it's one of the breeds that I always have to ask, is it ok for me to pet this one.


"gunfighter eyes"--that's brilliant. My dad's dog is half cocker, half dachshund. We've always commented on how her eyes go all flat and weird when she's getting ready to be a jerk....
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 02:08 pm
CowDoc wrote:
This debate never ends. The facts are pretty simple - pit bulls aren't all that likely to bite.


I just don't agree, CD. They are likely to bite, and they are completely unpredictable.

Earlier in this thread we read about a pit that was raised from a puppy to not be aggressive, but it ended up attacking unpredictably. I can relate several stories of similar tenor, one where the pit -- not raised to be aggressive at all -- bit off the end of the nose of its owner's brother who had played with it since he was a puppy.

If you saw the pictures of the 10 year old boy who had his face ripped down from his ear to his jaw by a stray pit bull, for doing nothing more than riding his bike in front of the pit's territory, you might not maintain this position. Whether they are "likely" to bit or not, the fact are that they do bite, they unfortunately do it relatively frequently, and they do it with ferocity.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 02:14 pm
Diane wrote:
It really does come down to training and the training of the handler is every bit as inportant as the dog's training.


If this is true, and I'm not saying it is .... then we are left with trusting the skills of the trainer.

I'm not comfortable with that proposition.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 02:27 pm
there was a farmer who had the farm next to mine and he owned a pit bull. i could hear him yell at that dog "Goddamnit you sonabitch get back home (if you want to) meanest damn dog I ever saw, was not safe to have him around during lambing season. I kept the 22 loaded with bird-shot by the door and it only took about 6 shots to his ass before he learned to stay away from my newborn lambs.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 02:37 pm
Good point about the amount of damage a particular breed of dog can do.

Sure any breed can bite, but a pomeranian isn't going to be able to bring me down and open my jugular.

All those breeds with large powerful jaws; pits, chows, rottie's...they were bred for fighting and protection.

The breeding has acentuated these traits, and yes, yes, yes, a lot depends on the owner. However, they need much less encouragement than other breeds to act on their nature.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 02:56 pm
We have created certain breeds of dog that are too dangerous around children; it is our privilege to breed them out of existence. This does not mean--and people always forget that I have said this--that we should kill or "punish" such dangerous breeds as individual creatures. All I am suggesting is that we let each living (dangerous) dog live out his/her life happily but not their breed. To extinquish a breed is not to injure any individual dog. And to let a dog maime or kill a child (or an adult for that matter) is to cause or permit real harm.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 03:19 pm
In 1989-1990, the Denver District Court heard the case of Colorado Dog Fanciers v. Denver, 820 P.2d 644 (Colo. 1991), a lawsuit brought in opposition to Denver's pit bull ordinance. The trial court's ruling was upheld on appeal. The trial court made several factual findings that supported the City's claim that there was a rational basis for differential treatment of pit bulls, including the following:

Quote:
27. It cannot be proven that pit bull dogs bite more than other dogs. However, there is credible evidence that pit bull dog attacks are more severe and more likely to result in fatalities.

28. At trial, the City claimed that there were fifteen major differences between pit bulls and other dogs. Some, but not all of these differences were proven:

(b) Athletic ability. Pit bull dogs are extremely muscular and unusually strong for their size. Reportedly, a 78-pound pit bull dog in Texas pulled 5,650 pounds for a distance of 15 feet in a weight-pulling contest.

(c) Biting. The City did prove that they inflict more serious wounds than other breeds. They tend to attack the deep muscles, to hold on, to shake, and to cause ripping of tissues. Pit bull attacks were compared to shark attacks.

(e) Destructiveness. The Court finds that some pit bull type dogs, due to their strength and athletic ability, can damage facilities and equipment. There is a disproportionate number of attacks by chained pit bull dogs which is indicative of their strength.

(f) Fighting ability and killing instinct. The City did prove that unregistered pit bull type dogs were responsible for a disproportionate number of severe or fatal attacks on other dogs and human beings. Credible testimony also proved that, when a pit bull dog begins to fight, it often will not retreat.

(g) Frenzy. The evidence proved that once pit bull type dogs do attack, they are less likely to retreat than other dogs.

(h) Gameness. Pit bull dogs trained for fighting are valued for "gameness," that is, their tenacious refusal to give up a fight. The Court finds that pit bull dogs trained for fighting do have the attribute of gameness.

(j) Manageability. American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, American Pit Bull Terriers, and their mixed breeds can make excellent, gentle pets. Nevertheless, credible testimony proved that proper handling, including early socialization to humans, is very important for these dogs. Even their most ardent admirers agree that these dogs are not for everyone and they require special attention and discipline. The Lockwood study reported that 13.3 percent of pit bull type dogs attacked their owners as compared with 2.2 percent of other dogs.

(k) Strength. Pit bull dogs are stronger than many other dogs. The evidence showed that 42.7 percent of the pit bull type dogs attacked while restrained...

(m) Tolerance to pain. The evidence did show that, when a pit bull dog does attack, it exhibits unusual tenaciousness and will not retreat from an attack, even when considerable pain is inflicted on the dog.

(n) Unpredictability...pit bull dogs, unlike other dogs, often give no warning signals before they attack.
0 Replies
 
 

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