For Immediate Release:
Friday, June 23, 2006
Contact: Will Holford or Dick Ellis
512-463-4070
Comptroller Strayhorn Statement
On Foster Care Abuse
Friday, June 23, 2006
(Austin)-- "In April 2004 I said I would give our forgotten children in foster care something they need - a voice.
"I have been and I will continue to be their voice. This Governor's Health and Human Services Commission continues to stonewall my investigation and this governor continues to hide the truth.
"In October 2004, I urged Gov. Perry to immediately create a Family and Protective Services Crisis Management Team by executive order to finally take serious steps to save children's lives. Now it is June 2006.
"Gov. Perry's failure to act is unconscionable.
"In November 2004, I launched an investigation into possible Medicaid prescription drug fraud and abuse in our state's foster care system.
"I am here today to release disturbing information found during my investigation about the deaths, poisonings, rapes and pregnancies of children in our state's foster care system.
"I found, from information provided by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, in Fiscal 2003, 30 foster children died in our state's care; in Fiscal 2004, 38 foster children died; and in Fiscal 2005, 48 foster children died.
"Data shows that while the number of foster children in our state's care increased 24 percent from 26,133 in Fiscal 2003 to 32,474 in Fiscal 2005, the number of deaths increased 60 percent.
"If you compare the number of deaths of children in our state's population to the number of deaths in our state's foster care system, a child is four times more likely to die in our state's foster care system.
"Based on Fiscal 2004 data provided by the Health and Human Services Commission, about 100 children received treatment for poisoning from medications; 63 foster children received medical treatment for rape that occurred while in the foster care system; and 142 children gave birth while in the state foster care system.
"As alarming as these cases are, we can only imagine how much worse the Fiscal 2005 data is because Gov. Perry's Health and Human Services Commission has refused to provide the data needed to complete my investigation.
"When I called on Gov. Perry in October 2004 to create a Crisis Management Team, I said the crisis was minute-by-minute and child-by-child.
"In Fiscal 2004, four-year old twin boys living in the same foster home received medical treatment in the hospital for rape.
"A five-year old boy in the same foster home received medical treatment in the hospital for rape two days later.
"A 15-year old girl who was not pregnant when she entered our state's foster care system in May 2002 gave birth in February 2004.
"The state is supposed to be protecting our forgotten children, but in all too many cases these children are taken from one abusive situation and placed in another abusive situation. Many children are in more abusive situations now than they were before the state intervened. Children are being neglected and abused and are dying.
"As reported by the media, a 12-year-old boy died in December 2005, while in our state's care at a facility that treats children with learning disabilities and emotional problems. The boy suffocated while being restrained from behind by an employee of the facility.
"Another boy in our state's care at the same facility died May 30, after drowning in a creek during a May 6 bicycle outing.
"A three-year old was treated for poisoning from an atypical, mind-altering antipsychotic drug. These drugs are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration for children under the age of 18 years old.
"Gov. Perry's failure to create a Crisis Management Team is unconscionable. The crisis is minute-by-minute and child-by-child. I renew my call. He must act now to save children's lives.
"I discovered the alarming number of deaths, poisonings, rapes and pregnancies while conducting my investigation into potential prescription drug fraud and abuse in the state's foster care system.
"I launched my investigation in November 2004, after my report, Forgotten Children, uncovered the fact that large numbers of psychotropic drugs are being prescribed to children in the foster care system, even though, according to the FDA, many of these drugs are not approved for children and have serious side effects such as suicidal tendencies, diabetes, and cardiac arrhythmia.
"Since that time, repeated and continuing roadblocks and stonewalling have been encountered by me and my staff in attempting to secure basic and necessary data from the Health and Human Services Commission to complete my investigation.
"It has been 19 months and 25 letters, emails, meetings and phone calls since I first requested foster care and corresponding Medicaid data from HHSC.
"The Commission finally provided Fiscal 2004 data. But, 10 months into Fiscal 2006, we have yet to receive the Fiscal 2005 data, which we know has been available for months and months.
"In March 2006, I requested all of the same data for Fiscal 2005.
"The Governor's commission has repeatedly thrown up roadblocks and stonewalled my investigation.
"We have had a signed Memorandum of Understanding, drafted by HHSC, at its offices since May 2005, agreeing in the Commission's own language to the confidentiality of this information.
"Claiming confidentiality, HHSC to this day refuses to cooperate and provide the Fiscal 2005 data needed to complete my investigation, despite that the statute requires that they cooperate and the Court of Appeals ruled on June 16 that HHSC's view about the confidentiality of its records is clearly wrong.
"What I have found from the information that was made available should be and is of grave concern, but the picture painted by Gov. Perry's Health and Human Services Commission's secret 2005 data must paint an even grimmer picture on all fronts.
"The people of Texas can handle the truth. What they will not tolerate is Gov. Perry's callous indifference in hiding the truth and placing our forgotten children at high risk.
"On Thursday, June 29, my findings will be reported to the Medicaid and Public Assistance Fraud Oversight Task Force so there will be a public record of this neglect and abuse.
"With every breath of air in Carole Keeton Strayhorn's lungs, I will continue to be the voice for these forgotten, neglected, abused, and dead children.
"There should have been a Crisis Management Team put into action in October 2004. It must be put in action now to prevent any more neglect, abuse and deaths of our more than 32,000 children in our state's foster care system.
"Gov. Perry is hiding the truth. And in hiding the truth he is jeopardizing our forgotten children's lives. That makes me one heartbroken Grandma."
Give system time to work in case of FLDS children
(JIM SHIELDS, Opinion Essay, Houston Chronicle, April 24, 2008)
I spend my days fighting to save the lives of victims of child abuse, so I have a unique perspective on the turmoil of the past few weeks at the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints compound near the West Texas town of Eldorado.
The organization I work for and I have been very critical of the systems (child welfare, criminal justice and the family courts) that we taxpayers fund to protect our children. So make no mistake, I am not a defender of "the system."
That being said, I think that we all need to take a deep breath and allow "the system" to do its work. And I am very hopeful that the children of Eldorado will be well served this time because it is my experience that "what's watched, works." In other words, the cracks, or gaping chasms if you prefer, in our child protective systems will be closed because the whole world is watching.
Some are criticizing Child Protective Services (CPS) because it removed 437 children from an environment that the agency deemed dangerous.
CPS was doing its job. Our laws give CPS this extraordinary power because we citizens want protectors of children to have as few obstacles as possible to do their jobs.
In fact, CPS does not use these powers frequently enough. The inspector general of the state commission that oversees CPS issued a report a few years back that said that in more than 75 percent of the cases where CPS knows there is imminent danger to a child, CPS returns the child to the dangerous home.
Was there ample evidence in the FLDS case for CPS to take such drastic action as removing the children from their homes? In a word, yes. The system failure is not that CPS acted too quickly but that it took so long to act, knowing what has been known for years.
Polygamy and child abuse are crimes. No one doubts that polygamy has been going on. So far as I know, that crime has never been prosecuted.
Child abuse is a much more serious matter. Soon, the state's prosecutors will have DNA evidence to determine if underage girls have been raped, and prosecutors will be able to identify the rapist. We will see convictions and men will go to jail.
The emotional abuse that the children may have suffered will be another matter, but from my vantage point the emotional abuse is extreme.
What I have learned from recent research studies on the brain is that the body will poison the brain when a person suffers severe stress.
For example, a soldier in Iraq driving across the desert has to be on high alert because he does not know what is behind the next rock, bridge or abandoned car. I understand that pictures taken of the brains of soldiers under such severe stress show physical signs of brain trauma (not unlike the pictures taken when there is concussive trauma to the brain) that relate directly to emotional disorders.
Women who live with an abuser suffer from this exact form of stress. One minute the abuser is saying how much he loves you, the next minute he is banging your head against the wall. Never knowing when the explosion will come causes the body to self-inflict trauma to the brain.
I have learned from escapees from the FLDS compounds that "keep sweet" is code language for a very severe form of mind control. "Keep sweet" means to stifle all normal human emotions such as anger, fear, jealousy or sadness.
When one man has to control several women, this is a very effective command, especially when infractions are met with swift humiliation and punishment. Watching the FLDS ladies "keep sweet" in TV interviews makes my skin crawl.
This abuse of the women trickles down to the children in a very predictable way. To the men of FLDS and the outside world, the women of FLDS appear very docile and controlled. But when the women are alone with the children, it is common for one woman to brutalize the children of a rival wife. This is done to exact payback for a punishment or humiliation suffered at the hands of a man who was instigated by the rival wife.
The innocent children then have no way of knowing when they will be punished, nor will they have any warning. This is emotional abuse, and we know that this form of abuse has long-term effects.
Removing a child from her home is always traumatic and should never be done without careful consideration.
The flip side of that argument is that if errors are going to be made, it is better to err on the side of safety for the child. We will be watching as this process goes forward and all of us want to do the right thing. I believe that we will.
The difference in numbers can come from several places. For one, the numbers used in the report the chart came from are only the cases that the state is aware of. Do you presume that the state is aware of and can prove every case of abuse committed by foster parents? Secondly, I pretty clearly listed "neighbors, etc.." as well as family members. Now, I don't know about your neighborhood but my neighbors don't live in my household. The entire concept of neighbors pretty much relies on them living close by but in a seperate household. If they live in the same household they're called "family", "roommates" or "housemates" - not neighbors.
When I did my work/study with a State child protection agency one of the frequent (daily) issues that came up was foster children that ran away from home and ended up on the streets homeless. Those children (typically teens) were routinely sexually abused. Promiscuous behaviour amongst foster children isn't unusual (whether the child runs away or not).
I wish to think the same thing. I'm simply more skeptical about it than you are and I don't ignore the reports of foster parents who accept children and then lock them in cages in their basements.
Well... when you begin with the wrong premise you end up with the wrong conclusion.
Remember also that none of these kids thinks that they have been abused, the argument that they are happy to be out of the abusive cult (made by someone...Calamity maybe??) shows a complete lack of understanding of where these kids are emotionally.
hawkeye10 wrote:Remember also that none of these kids thinks that they have been abused, the argument that they are happy to be out of the abusive cult (made by someone...Calamity maybe??) shows a complete lack of understanding of where these kids are emotionally.
What the hell are you talking about again? No one ever said that
children are happy and elated if removed from their home - on the contrary.
Even severely abused children rather remain in their home than being
taken to unfamiliar grounds.
Almost all abused children need extensive therapy, and receive
it through state appointed sources, but it doesn't mean they need to be
kept in an abusive home. There is trauma either way, but with removing
them from an abusive home, they have a chance to heal. Leaving them
in an abusive home, they have no chance at all. Do you understand the
difference? Probably not!
On what basis do you say it was a "snap opinion" they were at risk?
Of course there has been no "finding" of abuse...the matter is being investigated.
What expertise do you have re whether children ought to be removed during investigation?
On what basis do you claim "irreparable damage" re the removal?
Just for starters, by the way, you are making exactly the mistake you claim CJ is making...assuming there has been abuse....only in mirror form...assuming there has been no abuse.
By David A. Fahrenthold
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, April 27, 2008; Page A03
ELDORADO, Tex. -- The ironic thing is that before the big sheriff's department armored personnel carrier appeared outside the Yearning for Zion Ranch, it was starting to seem as though America had finally figured out how to live with its polygamists.
For more than a century, authorities had alternately persecuted and ignored the groups practicing plural marriage around the West -- splinters from mainstream Mormonism, splinters of splinters. Mostly, they ignored them.
But, in the past few years, officials in some states have begun trying to bring these groups out of the shadows. They offered a deal: Marry however often you want, but don't marry children. A Supreme Court case on gay sex also provided unlikely help.
Then came Eldorado.
On April 3, Texas authorities raided the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints' compound here, then removed more than 450 children. Now, Texas seems headed for exactly the kind of wrenching, head-on fight that other states have tried to avoid.
Their case will ask: Does this polygamous group deserve a place -- and the right to raise children -- in modern society?
"The people in Utah and Arizona simply aren't doing it" this way, said James W. Paulsen, a professor and expert on polygamy at South Texas College of Law in Houston. "The idea of walking in and shutting down the entire group hasn't been tried in more than 50 years. And the last time it was, then it was an abject failure."
Things have quieted down now in West Texas, more than three weeks after law enforcement officers raided the Yearning for Zion Ranch. The sect's children have been scattered to foster care around the state while officials use DNA tests to trace family relationships.
Now comes a legal fight with a twist. The state will argue that the sect's children are at risk at the compound, but not because every one of them has been physically or sexually abused.
Instead, they will say that the culture of the church, which encouraged girls to marry and bear children in their early teens, was a danger to any child immersed in it.
"There was a pervasive belief that children having children was what they were supposed to do," said Patrick Crimmins, a spokesman for the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services.
To those who study polygamist cultures, the crackdown seems like something out of the distant past. Something that, in the past, had reliably backfired.
In 1953, for instance, a raid on a polygamist settlement on the Utah-Arizona border ended with wailing mothers, a public outcry and the return of dozens of seized children.
After that, observers say, the two states often tried their best to pretend that these groups didn't exist. The polygamists usually returned the favor. "It was sort of a mutual-consent abandonment," said Terry Goddard, the attorney general of Arizona.
But, in the past five years or so, Utah has made an unprecedented outreach to the groups, sending out bureaucrats to their settlements and making an implicit bargain with them about the law.
"We're not going to prosecute people solely for adult bigamy," said Paul Murphy of the Utah Attorney General's Office. But, he said, the state will look aggressively for other crimes, such as welfare fraud and sex with children. Arizona has made similar efforts, trying to target individual violations of the law, not entire communities.
"They definitely were trying to open lines of communication," said Sarah Barringer Gordon, a professor of history and law at the University of Pennsylvania. "And they would very much like to have these people become integrated into the society." Still, Gordon said, in many cases the groups have been wary.
The atmosphere of openness was reinforced by a 2003 Supreme Court decision invalidating laws against sodomy. At a distant point on the American social spectrum, polygamists saw another implication: The police would stay out of their bedrooms, as well.
But then, on April 3, there they were.
In the immediate sense, the raid may have happened because of a hoax. Telephone calls reporting abuse at the ranch have been linked to a woman in Colorado with an alleged history of false abuse complaints.
But both Texas and the polygamists had been courting a confrontation. Under "prophet" Warren Jeffs -- now in jail in Arizona -- the fundamentalist sect seemed to be ordering more underage marriages. And a West Texas representative sponsored a bill in 2005 that set new laws seemingly targeted at polygamists.
Here in Eldorado, the small town closest to the compound, residents still say they're glad the raid happened.
"It's not legal, and it's wrong, the way they were living," said Rosa Martinez, behind the counter at her Rosita's Casita restaurant.
But legal experts say the case could easily become a quagmire. They say Texas has an unusual burden: It has to prove not spankings or sexual abuse, but the dangers of an entire belief system.
"Can they say with a straight face that's in the best interest of these children, to be taken away from their parents?" asked Ken Driggs, a public defender in Georgia who has done extensive research on polygamy and the law. "Does government want to get in there and say, 'This is a good religion,' or 'This is not a good religion?' "
Kenneth Lanning, a retired FBI agent who worked on crimes against children, said courts are likely to order that at least some of the children be returned to their parents. But how should the state handle that, if it has said the parents are part of a poisonous culture?
"You don't want to put it back the way it was," Lanning said. "But how are you going to leave it?"
In Utah and Arizona, nonprofit groups and government officials say they've already heard from other polygamous groups, worried that the Texas case may signal an end to their own detente.
Here in West Texas, the remaining members of the Eldorado sect have a more immediate demand.
"We want our children to come home," said Dan, 24, after a hearing this past week at the courthouse in San Angelo, Tex. He declined to give his last name.
dlowan wrote:On what basis do you say it was a "snap opinion" they were at risk?
Of course there has been no "finding" of abuse...the matter is being investigated.
What expertise do you have re whether children ought to be removed during investigation?
On what basis do you claim "irreparable damage" re the removal?
Just for starters, by the way, you are making exactly the mistake you claim CJ is making...assuming there has been abuse....only in mirror form...assuming there has been no abuse.
One state worker made the call, and one judge signed off on it, that is all. Plus the time line is well documented. I think that Ms Voss in her own words says that she made a snap decision, wholly by herself, and gives no reason why the taking of the children had to be done immediately.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/041808dntexCPShearings.3bd16d8.html
I have no expertise, I read the experts and adopt the reasoning of those who make the most sense. If you are arguing that only experts have the right to speak you and I need to have a heart to heart of what freedom and free speech means. I have linked to experts who agree with my view. I have every expectation that my view will carry the day as the process plays out.
The abuse on the part of the state is clear and convincing. Except in extreme situations Americans should not be taken into custody, families should not be forcibly separated, with out due process. Ms Voss gives as her reason for her taking away the kids that the community believes and teaches that girls should marry young and have babies early. She calls this abuse, but this is her opinion only. The law says that girls can marry at 16, so if they wait till that age and don't have sex with the adult who is their husband till that time then all laws have been followed. If the state is going to regulate marriage, and if the individuals follow those laws, then how can their behavior be unlawful?? In any case, before deciding that a communities belief system constitutes abuse and not allowing an entire community to keep their kids the justice system must be allowed to work.
I would be interested, if you care to discuss it, and IF my intuition is correct, what it is that seems to make this an issue of such personal importance for you.
I have done so, as has CJ.
If, as I may well have done, I missed your citing of what you consider to be an informed source, I am very happy to read it if you will cite it again.
fishin wrote:The difference in numbers can come from several places. For one, the numbers used in the report the chart came from are only the cases that the state is aware of. Do you presume that the state is aware of and can prove every case of abuse committed by foster parents? Secondly, I pretty clearly listed "neighbors, etc.." as well as family members. Now, I don't know about your neighborhood but my neighbors don't live in my household. The entire concept of neighbors pretty much relies on them living close by but in a seperate household. If they live in the same household they're called "family", "roommates" or "housemates" - not neighbors.
Pretty far fetched what you're saying, fishin. In order to justify your
numbers, you're roaming around the neighborhood to find possible suspects that may harm children in foster care that are not added in the statistics from the government site.
Quote:When I did my work/study with a State child protection agency one of the frequent (daily) issues that came up was foster children that ran away from home and ended up on the streets homeless. Those children (typically teens) were routinely sexually abused. Promiscuous behaviour amongst foster children isn't unusual (whether the child runs away or not).
Again, children that ran away and were sexually abused on the streets
doesn't necessarily apply to kids/teens from foster care only. All children
out on the streets are prey to criminals.
Quote:I wish to think the same thing. I'm simply more skeptical about it than you are and I don't ignore the reports of foster parents who accept children and then lock them in cages in their basements.
I does happen, no denying it here, but the numbers are low compared
to the majority of foster parents who do provide a good home and
environment for special needs children. You make them out to be all
monsters, and that simply isn't true.
Quote:Well... when you begin with the wrong premise you end up with the wrong conclusion.
I don't. I am simply more optimistic about the foster care system than
you are, that's all ,and that is in addition to the statistics that show
a far lower number of abuse, than what you have come up in your interpretation to include the entire neighborhood and the dog.
From http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/041808dntexCPShearings.3bd16d8.html
"Meanwhile, some of attorneys for the children who have been coordinating the overall effort to represent the kids met with church representatives Wednesday night and Thursday on a possible settlement: for the men to leave the ranch and the women and children to be allowed to live there under CPS supervision.""
This is the option that I would personally have wished to see explored before this. I think it would most certainly have been explored here, as it fits best with how abuse investigations are conducted here.
.
You can drop your condescending tone with me, fishin.
Nowhere did I imply that you said that all foster parents lock up the
kids in the basement. You're trying to play with words, a rather stupid
game.
Fact is: you said that " 1 in 4 children is sexually abused while in the State's care after being removed from their home and as many as 60% can expect to be mentally or physically abused while in foster care."
You have yet to bring a legitimate source for this, or do you think your
watchdog site is it? I question that in the same manner you question
my source given from the governmental child welfare/foster care. Yes
it is only one source, but what better source than the government entity
who is responsible for foster care.
I may be ignorant towards your claims, but I am never am ignorant towards children and protecting them.
One of the most comprehensive surveys of abuse in foster care was conducted in conjunction with a Baltimore lawsuit. Trudy Festinger, head of the Department of Research at the New York University School of Social Work, determined that over 28 per cent of the children in state care had been abused while in the system.
Reviewed cases depicted "a pattern of physical, sexual and emotional abuses" inflicted upon children in the custody of the Baltimore Department.
Cases reviewed as the trial progressed revealed children who had suffered continuous sexual and physical abuse or neglect in foster homes known to be inadequate by the Department. Cases included that of sexual abuse of young girls by their foster fathers, and that of a young girl who contracted gonorrhea of the throat as a result of sexual abuse in an unlicenced foster home.[1]
In Louisiana, a study conducted in conjunction with a civil suit found that 21 percent of abuse or neglect cases involved foster homes.[2]
In another Louisiana case, one in which thousands of pages of evidence were reviewed, and extensive testimony and depositions were taken, it was discovered that hundreds of foster children had been shipped out of the state to Texas.
Stephen Berzon of the Children's Defense Fund explained the shocking findings of the court before a Congressional subcommitte, saying: "children were physically abused, handcuffed, beaten, chained, and tied up, kept in cages, and overdrugged with psychotropic medication for institutional convenience."[3]
In Missouri, a 1981 study found that 57 percent of the sample children were placed in foster care settings that put them "at the very least at a high risk of abuse or neglect."[4]
A later report issued in 1987 found that 25 percent of the children in the Missouri sample group had been victims of "abuse or inappropriate punishment."
Children's Rights Project attorney Marcia Robinson Lowry described the findings of the Missouri review before the Select Committee on Children, Youth and Families:
The most troubling result of the Kansas City review was the level of abuse, undetected or unreported, in foster homes. 25% of the children in the sample were the subject of abuse or inappropriate punishment. 88% of those reports were not properly investigated.[5]
Whenever a best interests determination is required, the following factors* shall be considered in the context of the child's or youth's age and developmental needs:
The physical safety and welfare of the child or youth, including food, shelter, health, and clothing
The development of the child's or youth's identity
The child's or youth's background and ties, including familial, cultural, racial, ethnic, language, and religious;
The child's or youth's sense of permanent attachments, including:
Where the child or youth actually feels love, attachment, and sense of being valued
The child's or youth's sense of security
The child's or youth's sense of familiarity
The least disruptive placement alternative for the child or youth
The child's or youth's wishes and long-term goals
The child's or youth's community ties, including church, school, and friends
The physical, emotional, mental health, and educational needs of the child or youth, now and in the future
The child's or youth's need for legal permanence (reunification, guardianship, and adoption)
The child's or youth's need for stability and continuity of relationships with kin, parent figures, and siblings
The risks attendant to entering and being in foster care
The probability of success of any (permanent or temporary) placement arrangement
dlowan wrote:From http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/041808dntexCPShearings.3bd16d8.html
"Meanwhile, some of attorneys for the children who have been coordinating the overall effort to represent the kids met with church representatives Wednesday night and Thursday on a possible settlement: for the men to leave the ranch and the women and children to be allowed to live there under CPS supervision.""
This is the option that I would personally have wished to see explored before this. I think it would most certainly have been explored here, as it fits best with how abuse investigations are conducted here.
.
Had the matter been determined by the courts after due process such a thing may have been done, however Ms Voss was very clear that she did not think that the kids should be at the compound, and she felt that the kids should never go back to the compound. Her personal opinion and bias was allowed to rule that day, even though her ideas and plans may not be the best available. That is the inevitable problem when a state both gives the child protection agency broad rights to remove children with out due process, and allows individual agency workers carte blanche in determining the best course of action. Not all states are as backwards as Texas, when it comes to a whole host of things Texas is about as bad as America has to offer.
You can drop your condescending tone with me, fishin.
Nowhere did I imply that you said that all foster parents lock up the kids in the basement. You're trying to play with words, a rather stupid game.
You make them out to be all monsters, and that simply isn't true.
Fact is: you said that " 1 in 4 children is sexually abused while in the State's care after being removed from their home and as many as 60% can expect to be mentally or physically abused while in foster care."
You have yet to bring a legitimate source for this, or do you think your
watchdog site is it? I question that in the same manner you question
my source given from the governmental child welfare/foster care. Yes
it is only one source, but what better source than the government entity
who is responsible for foster care.
CalamityJane wrote:fishin wrote:The difference in numbers can come from several places. For one, the numbers used in the report the chart came from are only the cases that the state is aware of. Do you presume that the state is aware of and can prove every case of abuse committed by foster parents? Secondly, I pretty clearly listed "neighbors, etc.." as well as family members. Now, I don't know about your neighborhood but my neighbors don't live in my household. The entire concept of neighbors pretty much relies on them living close by but in a seperate household. If they live in the same household they're called "family", "roommates" or "housemates" - not neighbors.
Pretty far fetched what you're saying, fishin. In order to justify your
numbers, you're roaming around the neighborhood to find possible suspects that may harm children in foster care that are not added in the statistics from the government site.
So now it's MY fault that YOUR evidence doesn't list abuses committed by people who aren't foster parents? Sorry, that's entirely due to your own incompetence. You can't pin that on me.
I don't have to justify my numbers. The links I provided support my contention. You, on the other hand, have a big fat nothing to justify your's. YOUR stats show proven cases committed by foster parents and only cases committed by foster parents. Now all you have to do is prove that there aren't any unproven cases committed by foster parents and that foster children never come in contact with any one else in the world and your numbers will mean something. In the meantime they show squat. I do notice however that you continue to avoid all of the other reports listed in the other link I provided. I guess those studies don't support your contenetion, huh?
Quote:Quote:When I did my work/study with a State child protection agency one of the frequent (daily) issues that came up was foster children that ran away from home and ended up on the streets homeless. Those children (typically teens) were routinely sexually abused. Promiscuous behaviour amongst foster children isn't unusual (whether the child runs away or not).
Again, children that ran away and were sexually abused on the streets
doesn't necessarily apply to kids/teens from foster care only. All children
out on the streets are prey to criminals.
Ah! More wonderful logic from you. 1+1=3! How is what may or may not happen to kids who aren't in state care in any way relevant to this discussion? You've dropped off the deep end...
Quote:Quote:I wish to think the same thing. I'm simply more skeptical about it than you are and I don't ignore the reports of foster parents who accept children and then lock them in cages in their basements.
I does happen, no denying it here, but the numbers are low compared
to the majority of foster parents who do provide a good home and
environment for special needs children. You make them out to be all
monsters, and that simply isn't true.
How is it that you come up with this crap? You know, you are usually a fairly intelligent person but for whatever reason, you've been extremely stupid in this discussion. Please point to one single instance where I have stated that all foster parents are monsters. For that matter, point to a single instance where I have said that a majority of foster parents are monsters.
Quote:Quote:Well... when you begin with the wrong premise you end up with the wrong conclusion.
I don't. I am simply more optimistic about the foster care system than
you are, that's all ,and that is in addition to the statistics that show
a far lower number of abuse, than what you have come up in your interpretation to include the entire neighborhood and the dog.
Yes... your statisics... exactly ONE statistic from exactly ONE report that provides an incomplete picture. Of course, every foster child is isolated and never comes in contact with anyone but their foster parents right? Is that what you are tying to claim? Because that is the ONLY way that your one stat can mean anything. Your total, complete and willful ignorance is astounding.
