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Polygamists: Authorities Prepare For the Worst in Texas

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2008 10:07 pm
Quote:
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2008 06:16 am
Thanks for posting that, Wandel. Hawkeye, the Rapist Boy, was stomping about claiming that i didn't know what the Hell i was talking about. He then supported exactly what i had alleged, that the Texas compound was founded by FLDS members who were adherents of Warren Jeffs. As the source you here present also confirms, polygamy as well as child abuse if a possible basis for charges against the membership. My comment was not that i knew for a fact that polygamy would be one of the charges brought, just that i thought it would be likely.

Under the terms of the FLDS, Warren Jeffs is the sole person with the power to perform marriages, and he can punish members by "reassigning" wives to other members. Furthermore, the "church" is held to own all property, all of the homes, in any area in which its members reside. To attempt to separate Jeffs from the FLDS as though there were a rational, separate membership which is not associated with Jeffs is simply bullshit.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2008 09:53 am
wande-

How on earth can "underage" pregnancy be a problem to an evolutionist.

"Underage" is a religious concept designed specifically to inhibit evolutionary principles for social reasons.

You have a foot in both camps.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2008 10:00 am
Judging from wande's quote there are a lot of jobs being created by this mess, which I think the result of faulty upbringings.

And a lot of other messes being thereby sidelined for reasons too sordid to go into.
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2008 08:04 pm
Setanta wrote:
Thanks for posting that, Wandel. Hawkeye, the Rapist Boy, was stomping about claiming that i didn't know what the Hell i was talking about. He then supported exactly what i had alleged, that the Texas compound was founded by FLDS members who were adherents of Warren Jeffs. As the source you here present also confirms, polygamy as well as child abuse if a possible basis for charges against the membership. My comment was not that i knew for a fact that polygamy would be one of the charges brought, just that i thought it would be likely.

Under the terms of the FLDS, Warren Jeffs is the sole person with the power to perform marriages, and he can punish members by "reassigning" wives to other members. Furthermore, the "church" is held to own all property, all of the homes, in any area in which its members reside. To attempt to separate Jeffs from the FLDS as though there were a rational, separate membership which is not associated with Jeffs is simply bullshit.


Quote:


A judge on Thursday gave a special fiduciary more authority over a polygamous community's trust, including the power to defend the fund against lawsuits and to collect money from residents to pay taxes on the group's property on the Arizona Strip.

Third District Judge Denise Lindberg granted the increased power to manage the assets of the United Effort Plan (UEP) to Bruce Wisan, who has warned of the possibility of property sales and evictions of residents in Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., if the trust is unable to cover an upcoming $1.2 million tax bill.

The judge also granted a request made by Wisan and the Utah and Arizona attorneys general to hold off on appointing new trustees to the UEP, an arm of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Lindberg agreed that she needed more information on nominees before deciding who and how many to appoint.


Who will control sect's $100 mil?The two dozen nominees have 20 days to provide more background information, including financial data and statements about why they want to serve as trustees (see box). Interested parties then will have time to file objections or statements of support for candidates.

A hearing is set for Oct. 25, when Lindberg could name three to nine trustees or forgo appointments and leave the trust's management to Wisan.

Lindberg took the matter under advisement after after hearing arguments from lawyers representing various candidates and interested parties. Many alleged that most candidates have a conflict of interest that would affect their work. In a report filed Tuesday, Wisan said most of them are viewed by the FLDS faithful as dissident, apostate or anti-polygamy crusaders.

The nominees range from anti-polygamy activists, including Flora Jessop, to Winston Blackmore, a Canadian formerly associated with the FLDS. One nomination is for the �dream team� of outgoing Dixie State College President Robert Huddleston, certified public accountant Gregory Kemp and physician Craig Booth; their lawyers argued they would provided neutral oversight.

Don Timpson, a nominee who is affiliated with the Centennial Park community near the twin cities, agreed with the judge's decision.


"I think she did exactly what she had to do," he said. "It's a big trust and it's better to do it right."

But Carl Holm Jr., a nominee who left Colorado City years ago, said the disclosure requirements are just a way "to eliminate a lot of people from the board of trustees. I don't know how they figure there are so many qualifications to represent the people down there. Somebody is going to get rich."

Wisan is being paid $205 an hour for his work. His accounting firm and his lawyers also are being paid at their standard rates.

Nearly all the land, homes and buildings in the twin cities are held in the UEP trust set up by the FLDS, which considers plural marriage a central tenet of the faith. About 8,000 followers in the community are considered at-will tenants by the church, which thought of improvements such as new construction and remodels as donations. In the past, the church sought cash donations from members to pay tax bills.

Wisan has valued the Hildale-Colorado City property at $91.6 million. The FLDS also has established outposts in Texas and Colorado.

Wisan was appointed on May 27 to inventory and protect UEP property after Utah and Arizona officials became alarmed by the FLDS' purported attempt to transfer two pieces of property without receiving any compensation for the trust.

Wisan filed suit in May to stop the transfers. His attorney, Jeffrey Shields, said Thursday he is close to finalizing a deal to sell the land, which could bring about $1.5 million to the trust.

Authorities also were alarmed by the failure of UEP trustees and FLDS President Warren Jeffs to defend against three lawsuits, two in state and one in federal court.

The defendants could lose by default, which means the plaintiffs could get damages that would deplete the trust and potentially cost residents their homes.

The trustees, including Jeffs, were stripped of their power in June. Jeffs, who also faces sex charges in Arizona, has not been seen publicly in the past year and a half and his whereabouts are unknown. He is wanted on state and federal warrants and there is a $10,000 reward for information leading to his arrest.




http://www.religionnewsblog.com/11927/judge-expands-power-of-flds-trust-fiduciary

You are so out of the loop that you don't even know that the "church" property is owned by a trust which has been controlled by a judge since 2005. How about you learn about the FLDS before you endeavor to speak about it???
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2008 06:10 am
How about you learn the English language, jackass. I didn't say the church legally owns the property, i was pointing out that according to FLDS dogma, the church owns the property.

It really galls you that you've accused me of not knowing what i'm talking about, but failing to demonstrate it, doesn't it. What makes you so familiar, Rapist Boy--are you an FLDS member? Leaving aside you inability to effectively use English, what makes you think you're expert on this subject? Which one of your adolescent wives told you all about it?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Aug, 2008 03:15 pm
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Aug, 2008 03:33 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
SAN ANGELO — Four polygamist sect families are refusing to cooperate with Texas Child Protective Services and could lose their eight children a second time, according to court documents filed today.

The action, detailed in sworn statements from caseworkers, offers the first real peek inside the sexual abuse investigation that started March 28 with a purported phone call from inside the sect's West Texas ranch to a women's shelter in San Angelo. That call, now considered a hoax, sparked the largest child abuse investigation in the nation and locked the child welfare agency in a battle with the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the largest breakaway Mormon sect in the country.

On its face, the filing is no different that hundreds of others filed in Texas courts each year when parents retreat from the CPS bargaining table and refuse to cooperate. But it is the additional documents, including the caseworkers' own affidavits and children's diaries, that paint a picture of exactly what the state is up against in this case.


Any more info on this, Edgar?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Aug, 2008 03:47 pm
This little snippet was just posted. I imagine there will be more very soon.
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Aug, 2008 04:13 pm
Quote:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/yahoolatestnews/stories/080608dntexpolygamistcustody.19b24d7f.html?npc
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Aug, 2008 04:23 pm
Setanta wrote:
How about you learn the English language, jackass. I didn't say the church legally owns the property, i was pointing out that according to FLDS dogma, the church owns the property.

It really galls you that you've accused me of not knowing what i'm talking about, but failing to demonstrate it, doesn't it. What makes you so familiar, Rapist Boy--are you an FLDS member? Leaving aside you inability to effectively use English, what makes you think you're expert on this subject? Which one of your adolescent wives told you all about it?


The FLDS does not control the trust legally or in any other way. With the cooperation of FLDS members the trust is looking towards selling off all or some of the property to individual members. The fact that the FLDS once held that all property must be owned by the church is ancient history, no longer relevant, and does not relate to current FLDS ideology on property ownership. The FLDS did not change their minds completely with their own free will, they were pushed, but yet again they have shown themselves to be open to change and to reason.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Aug, 2008 05:09 pm
(mormon) senator harry reid likens polygamist sects to THE MOB !

Quote:
chicagotribune.com

Polygamist sects likened to moba "form of organized crime" that have spread into numerous states, as well as Canada and Mexico.


read in full :
SOURCE
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Aug, 2008 08:18 pm
Quote:
"I believe Warren Jeffs ran the FLDS Church and the UEP as an organized crime-type setup," Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff said Monday. "We just have to get the evidence to prove it."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20060509/ai_n16354600
from may, 2006

It would be a stretch to believe that harry Reid is capable of an original thought. He might want to not copy Shurtleff as the UEP has been controlled by the courts for a few years, and even with all of their efforts law enforcement agencies have not been able to prove much in the way of illegal activity with the UEP while the church controlled it. The conclusion is that the FLDS was largely incompetent of running the trust well, which is a different kettle of fish.
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Aug, 2008 08:24 pm
Quote:
Second Texas official linked to FLDS raid steps down
By Brooke Adams
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 07/11/2008 12:42:45 PM MDT

The director of the Texas Department of Public Safety announced today he will step down in August.
Col. Thomas A. Davis Jr. issued a one-sentence statement that read: "After 43 years and 9 months with the Texas Department of Public Safety, I am retiring on Aug. 31, 2008."
The Houston Chronicle connected Davis' departure to lack of confidence in the director following an arson fire at the historic Governor's Mansion in June. The building, which was undergoing renovations, was destroyed.
Texas Gov. Rick Perry and lawmakers had been critical of the department's management in a subsequent legislative hearing, the newspaper said.
Davis is the second Texas official to announce retirement plans in the past month. Carey Cockerell, director of the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, announced June 26 he also will leave on Aug. 31.
The two state agencies oversaw the raid on the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Eldorado in April, which led to removal of some 440 children.
After two months in state custody, two Texas courts ruled the state lacked sufficient evidence to continue to keep them. They were returned to their parents, members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, in early June.
Criminal and child welfare investigations are

continuing in Texas.
Early estimates of the cost of the state action exceeded $14 million.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9851924

Heads should roll after the gross incompetence shown by Texas in the handling of the FLDS, as I have said before. Justice is sweet.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 11:09 am
Quote:
Texas officials want 8 sect kids back in custody
(By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press, August 18, 2008)

Lawyers for Texas child welfare authorities and the parents of eight children from a polygamist sect agreed Monday to try negotiating a settlement before beginning new custody hearings.

Child Protective Services had asked Texas District Judge Barbara Walther to return the children to foster care, alleging their mothers refused to ensure they didn't have contact with men accused of being involved in underage marriages.

Hearings on CPS' request involving the children, ranging in age from 5 to 17, had been set to begin Monday morning. The hearings were delayed so talks could be held.

"We continue to have concerns in particular for these eight children, which is why we have asked the judge to review the case," agency spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said earlier.

None of the children currently live at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado, where authorities swept roughly 440 children into foster care in April. Officials said at the time that the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which established the ranch, was forcing girls into underage marriages and grooming boys to be adult abusers.

Six weeks after the children were placed in foster care, the Texas Supreme Court forced CPS to return them to their parents, ruling that the agency presented evidence of no more than a handful of teenage girls being abused. Many of the children taken into CPS custody were infants and toddlers.

In the new CPS petitions seeking foster placement for the eight children, the agency detailed alleged underage marriages involving the children's fathers or stepfathers, though only one faces any criminal charges.

Rod Parker, a church spokesman, said that even though the families are getting individual hearings this time, the argument that they shouldn't be allowed to retain custody of their children remains unfair.

The issue, as it was in the earlier case, is "whether the children are in any immediate danger simply because their parents choose to raise them in this religion," he said. "The substance of what they're doing here is fundamentally the same."

Parker also noted that the church issued a statement in June saying it would not bless underage marriages.

The FLDS church believes polygamy brings glory in heaven. It is a breakaway sect of the mainstream Mormon church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which officially renounced polygamy more than a century ago.

Sect leader Warren Jeffs and four followers were indicted in Texas last month for sexual assault of a child. One of the followers was also indicted for bigamy.

A sixth man, Dr. Lloyd Hammon Barlow, was indicted on three misdemeanor counts of failing to report child abuse. Authorities want custody of his two daughters, saying he didn't report the babies he delivered to underage girls and that he married a 16-year-old.

Jeffs, already convicted in Utah as an accomplice to rape, awaits trial in Arizona on charges of being an accomplice to sexual contact with a minor " all stemming from alleged underage marriages within the sect.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 10:31 am
Quote:
Utahns say fed help OK against polygamy
(By Brooke Adams, The Salt Lake Tribune, 08/25/2008)

A push for federal help prosecuting crimes within polygamous communities has the support of a majority of Utahns, a new poll shows.
"I don't know whether any of the individual states are doing a very good job of tackling it on their own," said Jared Esplin, 35, of South Jordan.
Esplin was among the 56 percent of Utahns in a recent survey who want the federal government to take a more active role in such prosecutions.
"I think young girls are being forced to marry older men and I think that is rape," Esplin said. "This seems to be crossing state lines and to be more than the states know what to do with."
Barbara Rowland, of Payson, agrees. "People cannot pick and choose which laws they want to abide by," she said. But the states "are not doing a very good job of it. You can go to any town in this state and find polygamists."
The poll was conducted Aug. 13-15 - three weeks after a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing at which Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid called polygamous communities a "form of organized crime" and asked the federal government to "play a larger role in this fight."
The hearing focused specifically on the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which has been the target of state investigations in Utah, Arizona and Texas.
Majority support for greater federal involvement held steady across several demographic categories: gender, political party affiliation and religious affiliation.
But members of the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which first publicly disavowed polygamy 118 years ago, were more likely to oppose federal prosecution than "non-LDS" respondents.
The poll found 31 percent of LDS respondents oppose federal prosecution, compared with 19 percent of those identified as "non-LDS."
Steve Terry, 54, of Taylorsville, is LDS and joined those who don't want to see more federal involvement but said his view was not related to his faith.
"If [polygamists] are working hard, holding down jobs, as far as I'm concerned we ought to leave them alone," Terry said.
Any abuses that occur should be addressed locally, he said.
"The states and local governments are better able to understand those issues and separate out what really needs to be dealt with and what can be let go," Terry said.
Nearly a fifth of the respondents said they were unsure whether federal involvement was necessary. Jack Strosnider, 69, of Cedar City, fell in that camp.
"I don't agree with the practice of polygamy, but whether the federal government should go in . . ." said Strosnider, mentioning Waco and the Elian Gonzalez sagas. "I just get concerned about how much power the government [has]."
But officials in three states - Utah, Arizona and Texas, which is at the forefront of the largest ongoing investigation involving the FLDS - have asked for federal help.
"A comprehensive federal response should minimize - if not eliminate - the possibility that persons within the FLDS who may be predisposed to commit polygamy, or other crimes, will simply move their operations to another location," said Greg Abbott, attorney general of Texas, in July.
He also asked that federal laws be used to investigate crimes within the sect and more federal aid be provided for crime victims.
Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard told the committee he requested federal help in 2005 to investigate possible civil rights violations by the Marshal's Office in Colorado City, Ariz. The town and the adjoining community of Hildale, Utah, are the traditional home base of the FLDS.
"I am still waiting for a response to that request," Goddard said, who also asked for federal help analyzing hundreds of boxes of documents and data seized in Texas and at the arrest of sect leader Warren S. Jeffs.
Mason-Dixon Polling and Research Inc. of Washington polled 400 Utah residents for The Salt Lake Tribune. The survey's error margin is plus or minus 5 points.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 08:02 pm
Quote:
SAN ANGELO, Texas " One by one, children taken into state protective custody during the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch are being dropped from court oversight in the nation's largest child custody case.
On Friday, Texas Child Protective Services filed to have another child from the Utah-based polygamous sect officially nonsuited, ending court jurisdiction over their case. Friday's filing brings the number of cases nonsuited to 287.

Approximately 439 children were taken into state custody during the raid in early April, when CPS caseworkers and law enforcement responded to the YFZ Ranch on a phone call alleging abuse. The children were returned to their families two months later, when two Texas courts ruled the state acted improperly and the children were not in any imminent danger.

Only one girl, a 14-year-old believed to have been married to FLDS leader Warren Jeffs at age 12, has been ordered back into foster care after a judge ruled her mother was unable to protect her from abuse.

Six FLDS members, including Jeffs, were recently indicted by a grand jury on charges ranging from sexual assault to bigamy to failure to report child abuse

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,700258366,00.html
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 08:09 pm
Quote:
SAN ANGELO, Texas " Child Protective Services has revised the number of children it took into state protective custody following the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch.
Texas CPS now believes it had 439 children in state custody, not 440 as the agency has reported for months.

"There isn't a simple explanation for that number changing by one child," Texas CPS spokesman Patrick Crimmins told the Deseret News on Friday. "It's been a very complicated case, it remains a complex case, and we think that number is 439 instead of 440."

The number of children from the Utah-based polygamous sect still involved in the nation's largest child custody case will continue to change rapidly as boxes filled with nonsuit filings continue to stack up in the court clerk's office here. As of Friday, CPS said it has filed to nonsuit 268 individuals, including the 26 "disputed minors" whom the agency initially believed to be children but were really adults. Approximately 197 children remain the subject of pending lawsuits.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,700256619,00.html

Five months later they don't know how many kids they snatched because it is "a complicated case"? Bullshit, they don't know because the entire action was bungled by the state of Texas.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 08:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
:
Prosecutors in Utah are beginning to get a glimpse of some of the massive amounts of evidence seized by law enforcement during the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch in Texas.
But any hopes of building criminal cases may evaporate if lawyers for the polygamous sect succeed in getting the search warrants tossed.

"We're certainly interested, and we will follow up on that stuff," Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff said in a recent interview with the Deseret News. "If we're not allowed to keep that evidence or use it in criminal prosecutions, then we're back to square one."

Among the hundreds of thousands of pieces of evidence seized from the Yearning For Zion Ranch's temple grounds were marriage records and dictations by FLDS leader Warren Jeffs.

Some of the evidence has become public since it was entered into court records in the separate child custody battle over children from the YFZ Ranch. Exhibits entered into a recent court case and obtained by the Deseret News show at least three underage marriages took place in the FLDS enclave of Hildale, Utah.

One of the Utah marriages, Texas child welfare authorities claim, took place in 2004 between FLDS leader Warren Jeffs and a girl who was only 13.

Texas lawyers for the FLDS Church recently renewed their challenge to the search warrants.
"Both warrants having now been returned (the FLDS Church) ask the court. ... to conduct a hearing, take testimony and determine whether 'good ground' existed for these warrants and the searches conducted pursuant thereto, and to take measures to protect matters of privilege and privacy in the property seized," FLDS attorney Cynthia Orr wrote in a June motion renewing their challenge.

A judge in San Angelo has scheduled an Oct. 1 hearing on the matter. Lawyers for the church claim the search was illegal, having been based on a hoax phone call that launched the raid, and what was seized may fall under priest-penitent privilege

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,700255627,00.html
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 12:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The Utah Supreme Court has reversed Warren Steed Jeffs' two convictions on charges of rape as an accomplice and ordered a new trial, saying that instructions given to jurors were erroneous
.
..
The defense has always maintained that marrying someone, encouraging them to make their marriage work and "be fruitful and multiply ... that is not the same thing as saying to a husband, 'I'm encouraging you to rape your wife,' " Bugden said.

He said he had not had a chance to speak to Jeffs but planned to do so Tuesday afternoon.

Assistant Utah Attorney General Laura Dupaix told CNN affiliate KSTU that the opinion is "going to make it difficult, I think, for us to do future prosecutions in cases where some of these men in positions of power -- almost complete power, like Warren Jeffs is -- to prosecute them for forcing young girls into these marriages. I think that's really the part of this opinion that is most disappointing for us."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/27/utah.polygamy.ruling/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

That the state invented law to get an unpopular person is no surprise at all, as the legal profession has become very slipshod and vengeful, but that the trial court got overturned is quite the shocker, at least to me.
0 Replies
 
 

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