Polygamists: Authorities Prepare For the Worst in Texas

It's on what seems to me a fast track. I expected a year of tracking these guys down.

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edgarblythe wrote:

It's on what seems to me a fast track. I expected a year of tracking these guys down.

Even if they are not all convicted, hopefully the knowledge that they cannot simply **** whomever they please, while hiding behind the laissez faire legal attitude to their polygamy, and ridiculous arguments that sexual abuse isn't sexual abuse when it is done by religious nuts, (but is "freedom of religion" Rolling Eyes

) will give some rein to the abuse.

Hopefully, some of the brainwashed kids may experience some chink of doubt appear in their carefully created mindsets, and not put up with as much, too.

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There will also be more indictments, I think.

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edgarblythe wrote:

There will also be more indictments, I think.

Also...don't the old bulls sometimes throw the male kids out when they think they might be some sort of threat to them, and leave them to fend for themselves?

That's child abuse, too.

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There's a lot of blame to go around. I don't believe every guilty party will pay, but I am happy to see an effort is being made.

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edgarblythe wrote:

There's a lot of blame to go around. I don't believe every guilty party will pay, but I am happy to see an effort is being made.

I am just hoping to see some fear of consequences rein in the worst of the behaviour.

Leaves all those poor kids being brought up by benighted troglodytes, though.

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edgarblythe wrote:

AUSTIN - Five indicted men from a polygamist sect in West Texas have surrendered to authorities, Attorney General Greg Abbott announced today.

The five were among six sect members indicted last week by a grand jury in the West Texas town of Eldorado with offenses relating to the sect's practice of marrying minor girls to adult men.

Four of the men and Warren Jeffs, leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who also was indicted, were charged with felony sexual assault of a child.

Another man was charged with failing to report child abuse.

Previously, only Jeffs, who is jailed in Arizona awaiting trial on similar charges, had been identified by the attorney general's office.

Jeffs was convicted of similar offenses in Utah last year.

Abbott said the investigation is continuing and could result in additional charges.

The Texas criminal charges followed a three-month investigation that began with Texas Child Protective Services raiding the group's West Texas ranch in April to remove more than 400 children because of suspected child abuse.

The children eventually were returned to their parents following a Texas Supreme Court ruling, but they remain under court protection and monitoring by the state.

so much for all the chin music from the "authorities" about how the charged would probably hide, be difficult to find, evade the law, blah, blah blah. They were wrong, as usaul.

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dlowan wrote:

and ridiculous arguments that sexual abuse isn't sexual abuse when it is done by religious nuts, (but is "freedom of religion" )

Who is arguing that sexual abuse isn't sexual abuse when it's done by religious nuts?

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Thomas wrote:

dlowan wrote:
and ridiculous arguments that sexual abuse isn't sexual abuse when it is done by religious nuts, (but is "freedom of religion" )

Who is arguing that sexual abuse isn't sexual abuse when it's done by religious nuts?

Can we get a definition please?? Maybe it plays into the self justification by Texas authorities for their heavy handed and illegal (aka abusive) actions towards the individuals in this case. Maybe a "religious nut" is a inferior form of the human species not to be afforded rights customarily granted to American citizens.

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Thomas wrote:

dlowan wrote:
and ridiculous arguments that sexual abuse isn't sexual abuse when it is done by religious nuts, (but is "freedom of religion" )

Who is arguing that sexual abuse isn't sexual abuse when it's done by religious nuts?

Hawkeye for one.

And that is what the old guys in the cults call it.

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We briefly (very briefly) had a self-avowed member of the FLDS at this site. He was such a goofball, he made people like Hawkeye and Foofie and Hanno look positively coherent. He defended Warren Jeffs in much the same terms as the Rapist Boy here is offering. When i posted quotes from and links to news stories about Jeffs' convictions in Utah, this joker disappeared from the site. Maybe he came here thinking he would find a sympathetic ear.

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dlowan wrote:

Thomas wrote:
dlowan wrote:
and ridiculous arguments that sexual abuse isn't sexual abuse when it is done by religious nuts, (but is "freedom of religion" )

Who is arguing that sexual abuse isn't sexual abuse when it's done by religious nuts?

Hawkeye for one.

And that is what the old guys in the cults call it.

then it should be no problem for you to find a quote that indicates that this is what I believe.......kindly put up or shut up...

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dlowan wrote:

Hawkeye for one.

Oh. Hawkeye. Right. Didn't notice him there, I have him on "ignore".

Is it okay to believe there are no good guys in the Texas FLDS story, that child abusers and overzealous prosecutors are probably both a problem? Or is that too flip-floppery, compromisey, unworthy of the hair on the breast of a macho debater like myself?

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Thomas wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Hawkeye for one.

Oh. Hawkeye. Right. Didn't notice him there, I have him on "ignore".

Is it okay to believe there are no good guys in the Texas FLDS story, that child abusers and overzealous prosecutors are probably both a problem? Or is that too flip-floppery, compromisey, unworthy of the hair on the breast of a macho debater like myself?

And for the record, if Thomas has me on ignore then he is not qualified to speak word one about my arguments or what I believe. Also, anyone who uses the ignore function can not in my opinion justly claim to be open to debate. To use technology to not hear what you don't want to hear is the same thing is hearing what you want to hear.

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Thomas wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Hawkeye for one.

Oh. Hawkeye. Right. Didn't notice him there, I have him on "ignore".

Is it okay to believe there are no good guys in the Texas FLDS story, that child abusers and overzealous prosecutors are probably both a problem? Or is that too flip-floppery, compromisey, unworthy of the hair on the breast of a macho debater like myself?

Overzealous prosecutors are likely to always be with us, and to be a problem everywhere, not just in Texas. Otherwise, although they may not be "good guys," they are far and away the lesser of the evils in this witches brew of bizarre sexual predilections and pathetic religious self-justification. A little research online about Warren Jeffs could go a long way to give the background to this whole brouhaha.

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By the by Thomas, in case you're too lazy to bother to look it up (and i would highly approve of such an attitude), Warren Jeffs is the founder of the FLDS. He became a fugitive in Utah, and then in Arizona, which is where i believe he was finally nabbed. His followers moved to Texas to escape the tender mercies of law enforcement in Utah and Arizona. The charges they might have faced there, and likely will face in Texas are child sexual abuse and polygamy.

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I know.

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Setanta wrote:

By the by Thomas, in case you're too lazy to bother to look it up (and i would highly approve of such an attitude), Warren Jeffs is the founder of the FLDS. He became a fugitive in Utah, and then in Arizona, which is where i believe he was finally nabbed. His followers moved to Texas to escape the tender mercies of law enforcement in Utah and Arizona. The charges they might have faced there, and likely will face in Texas are child sexual abuse and polygamy.

as usual, you don't know what you are talking about. Utah has no intention of prosecuting polygamy and Arizona is unlikely to do so. Both states have taken the stance that it is better to use means other than the legal system to deal with child sex abuse with-in the FLDS. Also, most FLDS members are still Utah and Arizona, they did not all go to Texas to escape prosecution or for any other reason.

It is also wrong to paint the FLDS as "his followers". Warren Jeffs has for several years been a controversial figure even with-in the FLDS. Jeff's did intend for YFZ to be the model FLDS community based upon his vision for what the FLDS should be, the families then went to Eldorado were picked by him in part because they were most willing to follow him in his challenge of societies right to make laws and enforce laws against marriage of girls under the age of Majority. There is no doubt that Texas has a right to enforce its laws, and the Jeffs and the families he put into YFZ challenged that. However, Texas reacted badly by going into persecution mode. The Jailing of Jeffs on its own would have gone far to getting the YFZ families to stop the marriage practices. It is pretty clear the the true aim of Texas is to convince the FLDS to abandon Texas, to chase them out of the state.

If you want to know about the FLDS a good place to start is here: http://www.mormonfundamentalism.com/ChartLinks/FLDSChurch.htm

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Quote:

The United States Senate Judiciary Committee Holds Hearings on Polygamy Crimes: What Needs to Be Done at the Federal Level to Protect Children from Abuse and Neglect

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wandeljw wrote:

Quote:
The United States Senate Judiciary Committee Holds Hearings on Polygamy Crimes: What Needs to Be Done at the Federal Level to Protect Children from Abuse and Neglect
(By MARCI HAMILTON, Findlaw.com, July 24, 2008)

The tide is turning in favor of protecting children in polygamous communities - as several new developments evidence. First, the Senate Judiciary Committee is holding hearings on the crimes that occur in polygamous communities today. I have submitted written testimony to the Committee regarding this matter, which is reproduced below.

A hearing that did not allow the voice to be heard of any current FLDS members or people sympathetic towards the FLDS . A hearing that was so openly not interested in arriving at the truth that it was largely taken as propaganda and thus ignored by the US media.

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Polygamists: Authorities Prepare For the Worst in Texas

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