voluntary rape

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Here's a new (to me) phrase and a blurb about it. Draw your own conclusions.

Quote:

The concept of voluntary rape

Rape is bad. Let there be no doubt about it. A man (or woman) entering or otherwise sexually abusing and molesting the body of a woman (or man) against her (or his) will is in my mind a disgusting and unforgivable crime. I am thankful for every law that is passed to punish committers of rape and to help the victims. I even remember making a little victory dance once my country decided it was forbidden by law to rape your spouse. Strangely enough, prior to that law you were allowed to rape someone once you were married to that person. Bad thing indeed.

However, since I started writing I've read a lot of feminist blogs and discussions concerning rape. And it made me think things over again. Some feminists seem to think that sex should always be completely intended, deliberate, controlled and chosen for. Please submit your request for sex handwritten and signed on the dotted line. There is a thing like taking things a bit too far. Sex should be fun, not something that has to be negotiated over for ages.

But if rape is bad and being way too paranoid about it is also bad, than what exactly are the boundaries of that what's in between? When exactly does sex turn into rape? This may sound pretty easy to distinguish, but I personally find it isn't. I will try to illustrate this issue with some possible real life situations through the point of view of a girl.

Suppose you are drunk. Heavily. And somehow you end up with a man. He is also drunk. You hardly know what you are doing. The two of you have sex. The next morning you regret you did. So was it rape? Did that man take advantage of you? Some might state that you have been raped. But when he was drunk as well, isn't this just something that happens? Something you may dislike to have done, but in the end isn't such a big deal?

Or what if you weren't drunk? What if you went home with a guy perfectly sober with the intention to have a one night stand. You start making out and know it's soon going to happen. However, suddenly you don't really feel like it. To avoid an awkward situation you decide to have sex anyway. Is it rape or not? The man can't help it that you refrain from telling him to stop in this particular situation, or could he?

Another issue comes along when you are in a relationship. Suppose you don't really feel like having sex, but your partner really wants to? You don't tell him you're not feeling up to it, but you just let him have his way. It doesn't hurt, although it's against your true will. Is it rape?

I have experienced all of the described examples personally. And I don't feel molested in any way. Nevertheless, a true purist might conclude I was in fact letting myself be raped, because technically speaking it did involve involuntary sex.

This made me think: is there a point in involuntary sex that could be called voluntary rape?

Sometimes it's just easier to go through with sex than to say stop. Sometimes the fact that you may not fully and completely choose to have sex simply doesn't really matter. Sex should be something sacred and special, absolutely, but sometimes things just happen.

What bothers me is that certain feminist activists might get very mad at me right now. They'll say I'm stimulating rape by not saying no consistently. They'll say I'm agreeing with rape for not teaching men when to stop. But how can something be wrong if I don't mind it happening?

If I choose to have sex against my wish. If I willingly participate in what I call voluntary rape. Am I being the stupidest person ever or am I just being human?

http://www.cecile-weekly.com/index.php/the-concept-of-voluntary-rape/

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This is completely idiotic.

There is no such thing, given the examples above, of voluntary rape.

Rape is not voluntary . The author of this stupid article has obviously never BEEN raped so they do not understand the difference.

Trying to paint rape as simple as "regretting your decision in the morning" is bullshit and a truly offensive statement to women who HAVE been raped.

You can not pass of "rape" as a simple change of mind in the morning.
That is diminishing rape entirely.

Im surprised this blather was even published.

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There are 8 Comments on "The concept of voluntary rape". Did you give them a read?

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Why would I?

Rape.. is not just changing your mind, and regretting it later.

Rape is not CHOOSING to go with the flow because you dont want to 'interrupt your partner'

Rape is not about " oh.. I just didnt feel like saying no'

Rape is not as casual as that. There is no comparison.

Rape is against a persons consent..
And if I am really drunk, and am ok with you and I having sex, but then sober up and wish I had not, that is not against my consent because I told you YES

if I told you NO, and you forced yourself on me.. that is RAPE not regret.

Im sorry, but I do not agree with the flippant way the author writes about possible ' voluntary rape'

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Oh for heavens sake.

There is no such thing as voluntary rape. Get a grip.

If a man takes advantage of a women who is so drunk she can't function, that is rape.

If a man takes advantage of a woman who is drunk but is still in control of her body, it is not rape.

Rape is when someone takes sex from you. You do not ask for it. You do not suggest it. You do not want it. Period.

Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power and control over another person.

When will people learn this?

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shewolfnm wrote:

Im sorry, but I do not agree with the flippant way the author writes about possible ' voluntary rape'

Fair enough, the reason I ask is that the OP "Cecile" clarifies as per:

Quote:

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Bella Dea wrote:

Oh for heavens sake.

There is no such thing as voluntary rape. Get a grip.

If a man takes advantage of a women who is so drunk she can't function, that is rape.

If a man takes advantage of a woman who is drunk but is still in control of her body, it is not rape.

Rape is when someone takes sex from you. You do not ask for it. You do not suggest it. You do not want it. Period.

Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power and control over another person.

When will people learn this?

When men stop getting arrested and convicted for rape because some woman changed her mind the morning after.

While everything you stated is (AFAIK) true from a clinical perspective, that isn't the case for the legal aspects of it.

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Rape is NEVER voluntary.

Quote:

Or what if you weren't drunk? What if you went home with a guy perfectly sober with the intention to have a one night stand. You start making out and know it's soon going to happen. However, suddenly you don't really feel like it. To avoid an awkward situation you decide to have sex anyway. Is it rape or not? The man can't help it that you refrain from telling him to stop in this particular situation, or could he?

In this case, the woman was not raped because she kept her mouth shut, and implicitly consented to have sex. The man had no way of knowing that the woman changed her mind. Had she objected, then it would have been rape, or in this case, popularly known as "date rape".

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fishin wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
Oh for heavens sake.

There is no such thing as voluntary rape. Get a grip.

If a man takes advantage of a women who is so drunk she can't function, that is rape.

If a man takes advantage of a woman who is drunk but is still in control of her body, it is not rape.

Rape is when someone takes sex from you. You do not ask for it. You do not suggest it. You do not want it. Period.

Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power and control over another person.

When will people learn this?

When men stop getting arrested and convicted for rape because some woman changed her mind the morning after.

While everything you stated is (AFAIK) true from a clinical perspective, that isn't the case for the legal aspects of it.

Could you possibly provide some statistics and numbers backing this up?

There are far more rapes that go unprosecuted than there are ones that do.

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So if I punch this writer in the nose (and Lord knows she deserves it) and she hasn't specifically told me not to, is it still assault?

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Go ahead, Boom . . . you know she really, secretly wants it . . .

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Maybe I'll buy her a few drinks first...

What I actually meant to say is -- is it VOLUNTARY assault if I punch her in the nose and she hadn't asked me not to.

Missing that one little word completely changed the nature of my post.

Carry on....

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Rape is NEVER voluntary.

Quote:
Or what if you weren't drunk? What if you went home with a guy perfectly sober with the intention to have a one night stand. You start making out and know it's soon going to happen. However, suddenly you don't really feel like it. To avoid an awkward situation you decide to have sex anyway. Is it rape or not? The man can't help it that you refrain from telling him to stop in this particular situation, or could he?

In this case, the woman was not raped because she kept her mouth shut, and implicitly consented to have sex. The man had no way of knowing that the woman changed her mind. Had she objected, then it would have been rape, or in this case, popularly known as "date rape".

I in no way condone rape, but this scenario comes to mind: I have had sexual relations where the woman (my wife) said "no" but it was play.

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Chumly wrote:

Phoenix32890 wrote:
Rape is NEVER voluntary.

Quote:
Or what if you weren't drunk? What if you went home with a guy perfectly sober with the intention to have a one night stand. You start making out and know it's soon going to happen. However, suddenly you don't really feel like it. To avoid an awkward situation you decide to have sex anyway. Is it rape or not? The man can't help it that you refrain from telling him to stop in this particular situation, or could he?

In this case, the woman was not raped because she kept her mouth shut, and implicitly consented to have sex. The man had no way of knowing that the woman changed her mind. Had she objected, then it would have been rape, or in this case, popularly known as "date rape".
I in no way condone rape, but this scenario comes to mind: I have had sexual relations where the woman (my wife) said "no" but it was play.

Key words: It was play.

It was concentual and not rape.

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Bella Dea wrote:

Chumly wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Rape is NEVER voluntary.

Quote:
Or what if you weren't drunk? What if you went home with a guy perfectly sober with the intention to have a one night stand. You start making out and know it's soon going to happen. However, suddenly you don't really feel like it. To avoid an awkward situation you decide to have sex anyway. Is it rape or not? The man can't help it that you refrain from telling him to stop in this particular situation, or could he?

In this case, the woman was not raped because she kept her mouth shut, and implicitly consented to have sex. The man had no way of knowing that the woman changed her mind. Had she objected, then it would have been rape, or in this case, popularly known as "date rape".
I in no way condone rape, but this scenario comes to mind: I have had sexual relations where the woman (my wife) said "no" but it was play.

Key words: It was play.

It was concentual and not rape.

And under what specified context do you confirm this in a legal sense if she claims later I was mistaken?

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Chumly wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
Chumly wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Rape is NEVER voluntary.

Quote:
Or what if you weren't drunk? What if you went home with a guy perfectly sober with the intention to have a one night stand. You start making out and know it's soon going to happen. However, suddenly you don't really feel like it. To avoid an awkward situation you decide to have sex anyway. Is it rape or not? The man can't help it that you refrain from telling him to stop in this particular situation, or could he?

In this case, the woman was not raped because she kept her mouth shut, and implicitly consented to have sex. The man had no way of knowing that the woman changed her mind. Had she objected, then it would have been rape, or in this case, popularly known as "date rape".
I in no way condone rape, but this scenario comes to mind: I have had sexual relations where the woman (my wife) said "no" but it was play.

Key words: It was play.

It was concentual and not rape.
And under what specified context do you confirm this in a legal sense?

She didn't say no. She didn't try to stop you. She wanted to have sex. She was of sound mind. She was of legal age.

In a legal sense, only she can testify if it was rape or not, if she said no or refused sex in any other way.

It's hard to prove rape if there aren't physical signs in the vagina. And even then it can be misinterpreted as just rough, concentual sex.

Rape is difficult to prove, plain and simple.

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Bella Dea wrote:

fishin wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
Oh for heavens sake.

There is no such thing as voluntary rape. Get a grip.

If a man takes advantage of a women who is so drunk she can't function, that is rape.

If a man takes advantage of a woman who is drunk but is still in control of her body, it is not rape.

Rape is when someone takes sex from you. You do not ask for it. You do not suggest it. You do not want it. Period.

Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power and control over another person.

When will people learn this?

When men stop getting arrested and convicted for rape because some woman changed her mind the morning after.

While everything you stated is (AFAIK) true from a clinical perspective, that isn't the case for the legal aspects of it.

Could you possibly provide some statistics and numbers backing this up?

At least one investigation pegged the number at 41%. A Justice Department Study found that 33% of those tried, convicted and sentenced were later exhonerated by DNA evidence. But there are plenty of ancedotal cases as evidence too. The Tamara Anne Mounier case is a perfect example.

But my original point that the legal system doesn't care about issues of power, etc. It is only concerned with penetration and consent. The "why" aspect isn't relevant to being convicted.

Quote:

There are far more rapes that go unprosecuted than there are ones that do.

I have no doubt that this is true. I don't see how that justifes trying to send someone who DIDN'T commit a rape to prison though.

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Fishin' may well be correct in saying that the law is not concerned with issues of "power." Be that as it may, most men fail to understand that that is the core issue in rape. Rape is usually about power, the ability to impose one's will on another, either through physical threat or abuse, or by the imposition of one's will. It may be that some cases of women reporting rape are "second thoughts" situations. It is equally as possible that women consent at the time of a sexual proposal for a variety of reasons which have nothing to do with a desire for sex, and everything to do with persuasion or intimidation, whether physical or not.

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fishin wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
fishin wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
Oh for heavens sake.

There is no such thing as voluntary rape. Get a grip.

If a man takes advantage of a women who is so drunk she can't function, that is rape.

If a man takes advantage of a woman who is drunk but is still in control of her body, it is not rape.

Rape is when someone takes sex from you. You do not ask for it. You do not suggest it. You do not want it. Period.

Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power and control over another person.

When will people learn this?

When men stop getting arrested and convicted for rape because some woman changed her mind the morning after.

While everything you stated is (AFAIK) true from a clinical perspective, that isn't the case for the legal aspects of it.

Could you possibly provide some statistics and numbers backing this up?

At least one investigation pegged the number at 41%.

This appears to be about after the fact exonerations. With the use of DNA, many more correct convictions must occur. Is there any recent data? This appears to be from 1996.

fishin wrote:

A Justice Department Study found that 33% of those tried, convicted and sentenced were later exhonerated by DNA evidence. But there are plenty of ancedotal cases as evidence too.

This was a study done in one town, and it didn't say (unless I missed it) that they were convicted, just that there were false accusations. And again, the research is dated.

fishin wrote:

The Tamara Anne Mounier case is a perfect example.

But my original point that the legal system doesn't care about issues of power, etc. It is only concerned with penetration and consent. The "why" aspect isn't relevant to being convicted.

The why doesn't matter, truth be told.
Again, the Tamara case is about accusations, not convictions.

fishin wrote:

Quote:
There are far more rapes that go unprosecuted than there are ones that do.

I have no doubt that this is true. I don't see how that justifes trying to send someone who DIDN'T commit a rape to prison though.

It doesn't and you still did not provide statistical proof that INNOCENT men go to prison.

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Setanta wrote:

It is equally as possible that women consent at the time of a sexual proposal for a variety of reasons which have nothing to do with a desire for sex, and everything to do with persuasion or intimidation, whether physical or not.

This is the legal definition of date rape.

Quote:

Date rape is a sexual assault in which the victim is psychologically pressured, drugged or sedated before the rape. Date rape is so-named because it often involves a dating couple. The male may spike a female's alcoholic beverage, making her unable to resist his advances or even unable to remember the rape. Would-be date rapists have used sleeping pills to sedate their intended victims. In addition to adding sleep-inducing medications to alcohol, date rapists also have combined them with marijuana, cocaine and other drugs.

Source

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