Florida and Michigan voters get stiffed by democrartic party

rabel22 wrote:

On the other hand maybe the DNC will have to lie in that bed. If they want to punish the democratic political machine in these states its OK with me but why disenfranchise the voters. I think a national vote on the same day would be the democratic way to go.

Okay, you're a grumpy old dude, we get it, jeez.

This is the same exact post you've made about a gajillion f*cking times about how pissed you are at the Dems. Well, go vote Republican, and stop whining about things....

Cycloptichorn

No room in that big old Democratic boat for everyone, huh Cycloptichorn? Just people that lockstep on that Democrat Death March to Denver.

How rude.

nappyheadedhohoho wrote:

No room in that big old Democratic boat for everyone, huh Cycloptichorn? Just people that lockstep on that Democrat Death March to Denver.

How rude.

I feel for the poor schmuck who wakes up and finds that he can not help choose the Democratic candidate because the state group that represents him invalidated his right to have his vote count. Really, I do. Some lessons sting though and this is a good thing, it aids in keeping the lesson learnt. In this case the lesson is that the citizens need to keep their state political organizations devoted to the best interests of the citizens.

the preceding was advice about being rude - brought to you by a poster who calls himself nappyheadedhohoho.

I feel for the poor schmuck who wakes up and finds that he can not help choose the Democratic candidate because the state group that represents him invalidated his right to have his vote count. Really, I do. Some lessons sting though and this is a good thing, it aids in keeping the lesson learnt. In this case the lesson is that the citizens need to keep their state political organizations devoted to the best interests of the citizens.

I can understand that argument, but the reality is that most people, Democrats and Republicans, do not get to help choose their candidate. Did the Republican votes in Ohio and Texas help to choose McCain? Nope, he was a done deal. You could argue that in order to make their votes meaningful, the state political organizations should have moved their primary to super Tuesday and that by choosing to hold it later they were left out. Here in NC, no Republican candidate will stop by to ask our opinions, no one will listen to our complaints or pander for our votes. It is a rarity this year that we will see a couple of the Democratic candidates, but still, eight of the original ten were gone before anyone looked our way. Florida and Michigan are in the same boat as a lot of small states. Why all the angst?

engineer wrote:

I can understand that argument, but the reality is that most people, Democrats and Republicans, do not get to help choose their candidate. Did the Republican votes in Ohio and Texas help to choose McCain? Nope, he was a done deal. You could argue that in order to make their votes meaningful, the state political organizations should have moved their primary to super Tuesday and that by choosing to hold it later they were left out. Here in NC, no Republican candidate will stop by to ask our opinions, no one will listen to our complaints or pander for our votes. It is a rarity this year that we will see a couple of the Democratic candidates, but still, eight of the original ten were gone before anyone looked our way. Florida and Michigan are in the same boat as a lot of small states. Why all the angst?

So what is your point? That keeping them out of the convention is not punishment? Sure it is, Conventions for years have been nothing but a five day party, and infomercial for the party where the actors (oh sorry, DELEGATES) are paid off with loads of swag. Michigan and Florida don't get to send people to the party......that's cold. And right.

My angst is that people need to know the rules, play the rules, and if they cheat they need to lose a few digits. I believe in law and order. The angst among some to find a way to include these states.....that is a misguided attempts at inclusion. Democrats routinely have their priorities messed up, this is nothing new. If they are true to form they will make some special rule that will allow the cheaters to save face but not completely get away with their disrespect for the rules.

au1929 wrote:

engineer

You are missing the point. By not counting the ballots cast the outcome as to who will the democratic standard bearer could be affected. I for one will either not vote or holding my nose vote for McCain.
I know many people who feel as I do.

I'm not missing you point, I just disagree with it. I do not agree that the voters of Michigan or Florida are more special than the voters of Ohio or Wisconsin or New Yorkers like you or North Carolinians like me. They thought they were so special that they would tilt the system more in their favor than their size already makes it. They figured they would anoint a front runner prior to Super Tuesday, decide this contest for us, dictate the party nomination. It seems the party had the discipline to represent the entire country instead of just a few big states and all of the candidates agreed. That one is crying foul now is not a surprise, that's politics. So back to your statement, you're voting McCain. There is a clear, clear difference between McCain and Obama/Clinton. Voting in FL or MI doesn't make that difference any more or less significant. McCain has some good points and if you are voting for him, then you are voting for him for more reasons than how the Democratic party set up its nomination process. I'm skeptical of your position if you are claiming that a re-vote in two states, neither of them yours, would magically change your position. Sometimes in our gut, we know how we're going to vote and we just need a pretext for the mind to accept. Maybe this is yours. Personally, I will be voting against the war, against foolish economic policies and against John McCain. I would like to vote for Obama, but if I have to swallow a Clinton vote I will for what I perceive is the good of the country, I will.