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The Lefty Boom

 
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 03:12 pm
perception wrote:
I continue to be the most misunderstood person on this forum :wink:


I know you are, but what am I?
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 03:12 pm
Mr. Combs?
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 03:27 pm
perception, if you are misunderstood, please clarify, or would your employers punish you for posting anything resembling 'truth in advertising' Laughing
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 03:47 pm
Dubya would likely relish believing he could control the weather but the criticism I've read that the fault lies with the 35 hour work week doesn't seem right. Most of the deaths seem to be the elderly who were at home alone and never even tried to make it to an emergency facility -- they had no relatives to look after them? Seems like those who want as little state intervention and programs as possible start looking at a disaster such as this with a new pair of socialistic glasses. Dreadful chain of events and unpredictable but not like 9/11, where it was obvious there could have been actions taken to find and stop the terrorists. If anyone knows someone who can turn the heat of the sun down, that's one hell of a janitor.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 03:56 pm
Quote:
Estimates show more than 15,000 people, most of them elderly, may have died during a heat wave that blanketed Europe earlier this month, leaving the continent in shock and anger.

France was hit hardest by the widespread health emergency sparked by two weeks of stifling temperatures, with the country's largest undertakers' group putting the death toll at about 10,000.

The centre-right government of Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin has disputed that figure, initially putting the toll at 3,000 and on Wednesday pledging to release a definitive tally "in the coming days".
[...]
In Spain, officials have said more than 100 people died in the first two weeks of August, when thermometers soared daily to 40 degrees Celsius across large swathes of Europe.
[...]
The health ministry in neighbouring Portugal said there were 1,316 more deaths across the country between July 30 and August 12 as compared with the same period last year, attributing the soaring mortality rate to the heat.
Officials across Europe concur that most of the dead are elderly people, many of whom lived alone and went unattended by their relatives during the traditional August holiday period.
Press reports in Italy have put the death toll at 1,000, although no official estimates have been issued.

In the Netherlands, officials say between 500 and 1,000 more people died in July and August than during an average summer, but figures were deemed preliminary.

Germany was largely spared by the heat wave, with only about three dozen deaths blamed on the unusually hot weather.

Precise figures have been difficult to obtain as many countries do no collect specific data on heat-related deaths.

Elderly people are especially at risk during heat waves because if they are weak, their body's natural temperature control system cannot cope, leading to an unusually high fever which, in some cases, fatally hits circulation.
Europe's heatwave death toll could exceed 15,000
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 05:14 pm
Walter says:

In France, they have a conservative governement:

In your view is the gov't more or less Socialist than Germany? Here is some recent data on France---while they are privatizing much of the industry they still have one of the highest tax burdens in Europe. If they are conservative why does it say they are a Socialist led gov'?

Economy - overview:

France is in the midst of transition, from a well-to-do modern economy that featured extensive government ownership and intervention to one that relies more on market mechanisms. The Socialist-led government has partially or fully privatized many large companies, banks, and insurers, but still retains controlling stakes in several leading firms, including Air France, France Telecom, Renault, and Thales, and remains dominant in some sectors, particularly power, public transport, and defense industries. The telecommunications sector is gradually being opened to competition. France's leaders remain committed to a capitalism in which they maintain social equity by means of laws, tax policies, and social spending that reduce income disparity and the impact of free markets on public health and welfare. The current government has lowered income taxes and introduced measures to boost employment. At the end of 2002 the government was focusing on the problems of the high cost of labor and labor market inflexibility resulting from the 35-hour workweek and restrictions on lay-offs. The government was also pushing for pension reforms and simplification of administrative procedures. The tax burden remains one of the highest in Europe. The current economic slowdown and inflexible budget items have thrown the government's goal of balancing the budget by 2004 off track.


BTW---regarding the cause: Some have said that most people went on holiday leaving the old to fend for themselves and some didn't even come back for the funeral----(off holiday that is)
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 05:17 pm
Pdidie wrote:

I know you are, but what am I?

You don't want to know Laughing
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 05:22 pm
Cavfancier wrote:

perception, if you are misunderstood, please clarify, or would your employers punish you for posting anything resembling 'truth in advertising'

Huh? Shocked Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 05:35 pm
What Beth said - the notion of there being a coherent leftish (centrist almost anywhere else) opposition in the USA sounds good to me.

However, from what one can observe from this distance, so far this "movement" you speak of seems more a re-backlash (a frontlash?) from the conservative backlash/dominance of the past few years. Again, from this distance, US political discourse SEEMS so polarized at present that sense and depth and breadth of thought from either side appears buried under the invective.

Again, from afar, the divisions appear to be about minor matters in a generally right of centre political landscape - however, other countries' political squabbles often tend to appear somewhat petty, while one's own loom as large as a cavity in one's own tooth, to a seeking tongue - and small policy differences can make a big difference on the ground.

Are there any links that can be given - not consisting of conservative commentators' attacks - on what is actually being proposed as policy by this "movement"?
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 06:06 pm
Neocon 101

Some basic questions answered.

What do neoconservatives believe?
"Neocons" believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power - forcefully if necessary - to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire. Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action.

Most neocons believe that the US has allowed dangers to gather by not spending enough on defense and not confronting threats aggressively enough. One such threat, they contend, was Saddam Hussein and his pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. Since the 1991 Gulf War, neocons relentlessly advocated Mr. Hussein's ouster.

Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region. They also see Israel as a key outpost of democracy in a region ruled by despots. Believing that authoritarianism and theocracy have allowed anti-Americanism to flourish in the Middle East, neocons advocate the democratic transformation of the region, starting with Iraq. They also believe the US is unnecessarily hampered by multilateral institutions, which they do not trust to effectively neutralize threats to global security.

What are the roots of neoconservative beliefs?
The original neocons were a small group of mostly Jewish liberal intellectuals who, in the 1960s and 70s, grew disenchanted with what they saw as the American left's social excesses and reluctance to spend adequately on defense. Many of these neocons worked in the 1970s for Democratic Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a staunch anti-communist. By the 1980s, most neocons had become Republicans, finding in President Ronald Reagan an avenue for their aggressive approach of confronting the Soviet Union with bold rhetoric and steep hikes in military spending. After the Soviet Union's fall, the neocons decried what they saw as American complacency. In the 1990s, they warned of the dangers of reducing both America's defense spending and its role in the world.

Unlike their predecessors, most younger neocons never experienced being left of center. They've always been "Reagan" Republicans.

What is the difference between a neoconservative and a conservative?

Liberals first applied the "neo" prefix to their comrades who broke ranks to become more conservative in the 1960s and 70s. The defectors remained more liberal on some domestic policy issues. But foreign policy stands have always defined neoconservatism. Where other conservatives favored détente and containment of the Soviet Union, neocons pushed direct confrontation, which became their raison d'etre during the 1970s and 80s.

Today, both conservatives and neocons favor a robust US military. But most conservatives express greater reservations about military intervention and so-called nation building. Neocons share no such reluctance. The post 9/11-campaigns against regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq demonstrate that the neocons are not afraid to force regime change and reshape hostile states in the American image. Neocons believe the US must do to whatever it takes to end state-supported terrorism. For most, this means an aggressive push for democracy in the Middle East. Even after 9/11, many other conservatives, particularly in the isolationist wing, view this as an overzealous dream with nightmarish consequences.

How have neoconservatives influenced US foreign policy?

Finding a kindred spirit in President Reagan, neocons greatly influenced US foreign policy in the 1980s.

But in the 1990s, neocon cries failed to spur much action. Outside of Reaganite think tanks and Israel's right-wing Likud Party, their calls for regime change in Iraq were deemed provocative and extremist by the political mainstream. With a few notable exceptions, such as President Bill Clinton's decision to launch isolated strikes at suspected terrorist targets in Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, their talk of preemptive military action was largely dismissed as overkill.

Despite being muted by a president who called for restraint and humility in foreign affairs, neocons used the 1990s to hone their message and craft their blueprint for American power. Their forward thinking and long-time ties to Republican circles helped many neocons win key posts in the Bush administration.

The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 moved much of the Bush administration closer than ever to neoconservative foreign policy. Only days after 9/11, one of the top neoconservative think tanks in Washington, the Project for a New American Century, wrote an open letter to President Bush calling for regime change in Iraq. Before long, Bush, who campaigned in 2000 against nation building and excessive military intervention overseas, also began calling for regime change in Iraq. In a highly significant nod to neocon influence, Bush chose the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) as the venue for a key February 2003 speech in which he declared that a US victory in Iraq "could begin a new stage for Middle Eastern peace." AEI - the de facto headquarters for neconservative policy - had been calling for democratization of the Arab world for more than a decade.

What does a neoconservative dream world look like?

Neocons envision a world in which the United States is the unchallenged superpower, immune to threats. They believe that the US has a responsibility to act as a "benevolent global hegemon." In this capacity, the US would maintain an empire of sorts by helping to create democratic, economically liberal governments in place of "failed states" or oppressive regimes they deem threatening to the US or its interests. In the neocon dream world the entire Middle East would be democratized in the belief that this would eliminate a prime breeding ground for terrorists. This approach, they claim, is not only best for the US; it is best for the world. In their view, the world can only achieve peace through strong US leadership backed with credible force, not weak treaties to be disrespected by tyrants.

Any regime that is outwardly hostile to the US and could pose a threat would be confronted aggressively, not "appeased" or merely contained. The US military would be reconfigured around the world to allow for greater flexibility and quicker deployment to hot spots in the Middle East, as well as Central and Southeast Asia. The US would spend more on defense, particularly for high-tech, precision weaponry that could be used in preemptive strikes. It would work through multilateral institutions such as the United Nations when possible, but must never be constrained from acting in its best interests whenever necessary.

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 06:15 pm
what i would refer to as "legimate conservatives" are beginning to seriously reject the Bush agenda as in what happened today in Idado when the totally republican congressmen objected to Ashcrofts rally cry for the patriot act.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 07:01 pm
Congratulations BillW----That is fairly accurate as far as it goes.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 07:03 pm
Dys

Since you are putting labels on people and groups--- would you consider yourself a "legitimate liberal"?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 07:09 pm
nope i am way left of legimate liberal, but nice try perception.
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 07:37 pm
dlowan wrote:

However, from what one can observe from this distance, so far this "movement" you speak of seems more a re-backlash (a frontlash?) from the conservative backlash/dominance of the past few years. Again, from this distance, US political discourse SEEMS so polarized at present that sense and depth and breadth of thought from either side appears buried under the invective.

I don't believe conservative dominance for the past FEW years is correct unless you mean for the past
2 1/2 years since Clinton was removed from office.
I feel that the current conservative dominance could be charactorized as a backlash from the Clinton years. But you are correct in saying that both sides are polarized and buried under a crush of invective and I don't see any change in that

I do want to emphasize one point and that is:the use of "Ad hominem humor" of the type used by Michael Moore and Al Franken will cause another form of backlash against the Dems (liberals), mainly because the average voter is very conscious of the lack of substance in the liberal agenda and the use of ad hominem satire is proof of it.

The current "Lefty Boom" started with the disputed election of Bush the younger-----there is a very strong feeling (I would and have charactorized it as hatred) that the liberal candidate (Gore) was cheated out the election( it is not my intent to argue that point one way or the other) and ever since the lefty movement has been floundering ----- Howard Dean has breathed new life into this movement---hence the title --"Lefty Boom" and should Hillary run, the "Lefty Boom" would go on a roll.

The truly sad and disgusting fact is that we must bear the burden of 14 more months of lies from both sides.

I believe campaigns should be limited to a maximum of 2 months period
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 07:40 pm
Dys

Does that put in the same position on the left that Hitler occupies on the Right? Shocked
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 07:46 pm
perception, i would offer the opinion that i am as far left as you are far right. what you make of that is entirely up to you.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 08:03 pm
I hope someday to be a limosine liberal.

For now I must settle for being a Lexus liberal.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 08:45 pm
PDiddie wrote:
I hope someday to be a limosine liberal.

For now I must settle for being a Lexus liberal.

That makes me a Volvo liberal. Very Happy
I think what many forget is that the far right has been on the warpath since the first Clinton presidency. They were determined to have him impeached from day one. There were similar motives at work in California recently. Party supremacy has replaced even pretending to serve the public in this era of grown-up infants who sit in their sadbox and yell "mama, he hit me first" at each other.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 08:49 pm
Ah, you all have it good. I haven't decided on a definitive affiliation and have no wheels.

I guess my options are currently open. ;-)
0 Replies
 
 

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