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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 07:26 pm
@ican711nm,
It shows how ignorant you are: the US population is in excess of 300 million.
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 09:25 pm
@okie,
I guess the question has always been if the American voter, overall, will approve of the 'Party of NO' for saying just that to this collectivist, budget busting, government increasing, freedom killing pig sans lipstick the liberals call a 'Health care Bill". The Republicans in congress only get a C minus for their effort to kill this bill from me. They could have done a lot more to hold this bill up, after all, its popularity has been indirectly proportional to the time the voters have to examine it (when allowed). Why not judge it on its merits, or lack thereof? We see the Dems now using extra legislative procedures to circumvent the normal bill passing process keeping it in the back room where even Democratic back benchers have no access and keeping it out of conference thru the "ping pong" process. Here one must admit the Dems are not ignoring the Republicans, they are actively straight-arming them (and many Dems) so they will have little input and demonstrating their contempt for Americans’ freedom thru a process that has the transparency of the NSA.

And this: We have seen lefty liberals like H. Dean calling for the killing of this hog. Dean wants the public option or single payer (same thing). Others on the left have said they won't accept it if it refuses to pay for abortions for all and illegal immigrants. They have every right to their opinions and legal actions to obtain their goal. But they should understand they must now put up, if they ever want to be taken seriously, or shut up. Rahm Emanuel called it. This is the crisis, this is the reform, and this is the Democratic majority that probably won't be seen again in their lifetimes (no matter how young they might be). Put simply: Its now or never for them, or so they feel. The desperation is palpable and overwhelming. But, public opinion is moving away from them and Obama. However, it means little to them that the more the public learns of their efforts the less it approves, all the more reason to push, cajole, bribe, and threaten.

I find the Democratic Party has done a good thing for this country. Through their attempt at obfuscation they have made it perfectly transparent what their vision of a future America is: an anti-business, anti-entrepreneur, individual freedom killing, anti-innovation government that can take away that which it giveth (but then it always could) whether that is SS, Medicare, or whatever. A government that forces its citizens to buy dangerously small cars, or electric cars that get electricity, ultimately, from… where? A government that forces its citizens to pay 3-5 times more for electric power so a select few, Gore-like, citizens can make millions, feel good about itself, and allow India, China, and ASEAN nations enjoy a leg up in global competition. A nation that allows its intercity youth to be steeped in ignorance, its citizens open to terrorist attack, and globally disadvantaged in economic competition so that the Democratic party can siphon off union dues to enlarge their political coffers. Many American people have started to pay attention and they have seen a Democratic political monopoly more powerful than Standard Oil was in its Rockefeller heyday.

So the lefty statists now have control and have secluded themselves in smoky backrooms and speak for all America. The party of 'No" did the same way back when Tom DeLay used his nasty political tricks. Was this any different than what we are witnessing now?
From Nov 4, 2008:
Quote:
When Barack Obama wins the election tonight, take a moment to thank Tom Delay,
Jack Abramoff, Karl Rove and all the other corrupt Republicans who handed Democrats
the 2006 election and set the table for this year's rout.

And when you've said your thank yous -- and taken a few gleeful swings at
your George W. Bush piñata -- let your mind wander back a couple of decades.

It was Watergate that led to the Democratic tide in 1974 and allowed an outsider
-- a "change" candidate named Jimmy Carter - to walk into the White House
in 1976. And that reign, as you may recall, did not last as long as we might have
hoped.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-cosgrove/thank-tom-delay-today_b_140814.html

So what did we learn from this as Americans? Apparently, not much. Other than being thankful for the short “National Malaise” infected Carter Administration, we might think less towards ‘Throwing the Bums Out” and more towards not voting them in to begin with... This, of course, calls for a better educated American voter. But this time is and can be different. It is different because we see can see clearly what Democrats hope for the American future. This health controversy is the glass bottom boat that looks all the way to the very bottom of the Democratic soul. What this reveals is not just the party’s socialistic collectivist rationale fueled mainly by its desire for permanent power over Americans. Also seen in this view is what one finds by studying just a little bit of the Comm Intern and even Islamic extremism ideology: the concept that every means (lying, cheating, killing, exploiting and corrupting the system in place, etc) is justified by the hoped for end: power over the populace. Killing you say? Well, it isn't that bad yet. So far the closest anyone has suggested to this might be Palin's 'Death Panels' used to decrease costs on senior care. This validated by a real world government panel telling women " no need for mamography if you are 49 years of age or younger". But it is important to note Sen. Reid's tactics that will pay any cost (or obscure it), break any Constitutional Amendment (see Ican's post of Orin Hatch et al in a WSJ op/ed article), and throw any principled leftist (including himself) under the bus to get this win. For we have seen that that is exactly what it is all about and to hell with the American public.

Is this the soul Americans should trust with their future? Remember those 'principled' Democratic Senators from Louisiana and Nebraska that had drawn lines in the political sand over which they would not budge until Reid gave 300 million taxpayers dollars (from other states) to one and a prepaid (with all state’s dollars except Nebraska’s) infinite balance debit card to the other? At this point there is little doubt that Reid and Obama are in for the proverbial pound. Therefore we can expect all manner of congressional pandering, handouts, pork, and sell outs to make this happen, I have absolutely no doubts it will happen. But this is the second biggest difference from what happened in the past: the Democratic Party will own it--all of them. Each Democratic member of Congress will be the last and deciding vote for this, at least in the public’s eye. The only way this will not be the public perception is if Obamacare does not pass. What a pickle of a situation the Dems find themselves! Additionally, the Dems and his lack of party leadership are dragging down Obama! Oh well. Politically the only group that could have possibly saved the Democrats from this was, at one time, the Party of NO! So we may very well see the damage to the Democratic Party caused by its saying NO to the Party of NO!

So Rahm and the boys have handled their 'crisis'. But their crisis is in contrast with the public perception whereof focus is rightly on the economy, jobs, and, increasingly, national security. But in ,William Kristol's words:"It is a good time to be a conservative!" Why? There is no doubt in my mind that conservatives have individual freedom and, therefore, the country's best interests first on their list of principles. These principles guide through thick and thin but they also restrict our government as the founders intended. Democratic Party principles, whatever they may now be, are not demonstrated in their health care bill itself, but in its midwifery. Indeed, these principles are more like reasoned steps towards the ultimate goal of statism. Not only do these not guide us, they impose restrictions on American’s individual freedoms in favor of increasing the power of government institutions. We conservatives may very well be in the position to not only rid ourselves of the party of socialism but to encourage republican candidates that adhere closely to the founding fathers' intentions for our citizens, individual freedoms being paramount. We have Republicans that have bought into the surrender principle just to survive, the R leadership in Congress not excepted. Sure we will have to compromise here and there but with stronger conservatives we will be better able to convince those compromised to lean right. Events are now indicating that Obama’s election was not an indication of America moving left. For a really interesting explanation of the Obama’s election phenomenon I recommend Shelby Steele’s essay at: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704254604574614540488450188.html
It’s a bit more nuanced then just voter Bush fatigue and, yes, involves some self deception on voters part.

JM

P.S. It has been pointed out that this is all OK because the Dems are in the majority and they have every right to behave as they have. Apparently those in concert with this thinking have little concept of a main tenent of our Constitution which is minority rights. Purpose of which is to eliminate the "tyranny of the majority". Simply now, what if Bush, Cheney, and an overwhelming Repbulican congress pushed thru a bill to ban abortion, ban all government payouts to perceived dead beats, ban all labor unions, summarily execute illegal aliens, invade Iran, or (insert your most detested G.W. thingy here)? Would those in the minority deserve some legtimate input? If not, could we depend on the irate voters to change things? Just sayin. Will we see future Republican candidates campaigning on repealing this health care disaster?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 10:13 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JamesMorrison wrote:

I find the Democratic Party has done a good thing for this country. Through their attempt at obfuscation they have made it perfectly transparent what their vision of a future America is: an anti-business, anti-entrepreneur, individual freedom killing, anti-innovation government that can take away that which it giveth

Agreed. The Democratic Party is now the party of anti-business, anti-entrepeneur, and anti-individual freedom. Essentially, it is an anti-American Party as compared to what America has stood for in our past. Everything that describes America, its innovation, invention, and individual liberty, everything that is American, they are against it. It would not surprise me if they came out against apple pie, after all they've already undercut motherhood by advocating the mass killings of millions of the unborn.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 11:18 pm
@okie,
JM wrote:
Quote:
anti-business
,
Please explain how Obama is "anti-business?


JM wrote:
Quote:
anti-entrepreneur
,
How did Obama stop entrepreneurs?

JM wrote:
Quote:
individual freedom killing,


What freedoms have you lost since January 20, 2009?

JM wrote:
Quote:
anti-innovation government


How is Obama "anti-innovation?"
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 12:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
It shows how ignorant you are: the US population is in excess of 300 million.

Your determination to deceive yourself is incredible.

Yes, the US population exceeds 300 million. The population numbers I posted are obtained from the following link:
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt

If you had examined that link you would have had the opportunity to verify that the population numbers I posted were:
Quote:
Civilian non-institutional population........Civilian Labor Force Employed

In my posts in this thread on pages 903, 906, and 907, I showed the following to be true facts:
(1) The Civilian Non-institutional Population increased annually 1980 to 2010;
(2) The Civilian Labor Force Employed-- except for the years 1981, 1991, and 2002 that had decreases of less than one million each--increased annually from 1980 to 2007--the Democrats gained majorities in the Congress and Senate in 2007;
(3) The Civilian Labor Force Employed decreased in 2008 about 3 million, from about 146 million to about 143 million;
(4) The Civilian Labor Force Employed decreased in 2009 about 5 million, from about 143 million to about 138 million;
(5) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 1981 from 70% to 50%;
(6) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 1981 from 50% to 38.5%;
(7) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 1991 from 38.5% to 33%;
(8) The maximum income tax rate increased in 1993 from 33% to 39.6%;
(9) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 2001 from 39.6% to 39.1%;
(10) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 2002 from 39.1% to 38.6%;
(11) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 2003 from 38.6% to 35%;
(12) The minimum income tax rate decreased in 2003 from 15% to 10%.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 12:54 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
The Democratic Party is now the party of anti-business, anti-entrepeneur, and anti-individual freedom. Essentially, it is an anti-American Party as compared to what America has stood for in our past. Everything that describes America, its innovation, invention, and individual liberty, everything that is American, they are against it. It would not surprise me if they came out against apple pie, after all they've already undercut motherhood by advocating the mass killings of millions of the unborn.

I agree that Obama has demonstrated all this. He has demonstrated all this by his deficit spending, by his declaration of his intention to redistribute lawfully earned wealth, by his usurpation of control of the management of several corporations, by his international apologies for American's praise worthy accomplishments, by his establishment of civil trials for foreign terrorists who have declared and waged war against America, and his promises to increase income tax rates on the wealthy from 35% to more than 50%.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 06:48 pm
A prediction : Erroll Southers, Barack Obama’s, nominee to head the Transportation Safety Administration will withdraw his name from consideration. MSM stalwart Matt Lauer was kind enough to bring this to our attention while Sen. Demint was the lone wolf, in Lauer's terminology, "holding up" Southers appointment. But according to the Washington Examiner this particular member of the 'Party of NO!' May have done Americans a double favor: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Republicans-escalate-conflict-over-TSA-nominee-Erroll-Southers-80865292.html

Another bullet dodged by the American people. Essentially, Southers not only was willing to handcuff American security by infecting the TSA with scelorotic inducing unionism but has absolutely no problem using government data bases as his own personal piggy bank as a resource towards possible personal extortion. Wasn't this one of the reasons J.Edgar Hoover's career was later deemed somewhat unseemly? Another loser courtesy of Obama's selection committee. At least some of the press is doing their job. Is there a law against lying to congress? Is this, also, somehow the Bush Admin's fault? If so, when does that rationale expire? Rolling Eyes

JM
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 12:34 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
It shows how ignorant you are: the US population is in excess of 300 million.

Your determination to deceive yourself is incredible.

Yes, the US population exceeds 300 million. The population numbers I posted are obtained from the following link:
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt



Wait.. CI is deceiving himself because ican took the numbers from BLS and changed the headings of the columns?

I don't CI is the one that is practicing deception here ican. You seem to have a nasty habit of changing numbers and stats all the time.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 02:01 pm
@ican711nm,
I posted the following on January 7, 2010 in Post 3866473:

In my posts in this thread on pages 903, 906, and 907, I showed the following to be true facts:
(1) The Civilian Non-institutional Population increased annually 1980 to 2010;
(2) The Civilian Labor Force Employed-- except for the years 1981, 1991, and 2002 that had decreases of less than one million each--increased annually from 1980 to 2007--the Democrats gained majorities in the Congress and Senate in 2007;
(3) The Civilian Labor Force Employed decreased in 2008 about 3 million, from about 146 million to about 143 million;
(4) The Civilian Labor Force Employed decreased in 2009 about 5 million, from about 143 million to about 138 million;
(5) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 1981 from 70% to 50%;
(6) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 1981 from 50% to 38.5%;
(7) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 1991 from 38.5% to 33%;
(8) The maximum income tax rate increased in 1993 from 33% to 39.6%;
(9) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 2001 from 39.6% to 39.1%;
(10) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 2002 from 39.1% to 38.6%;
(11) The maximum income tax rate decreased in 2003 from 38.6% to 35%;
(12) The minimum income tax rate decreased in 2003 from 15% to 10%.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 02:10 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, You have no ability to understand the very numbers that you post. CLUE: Static numbers have very little meaning. Quit while you are behind; and stick to flying. At least you'll keep flying forward.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 02:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Static numbers have very little meaning.


Especially when looking at things over the course of decades. You need population in there to normalize the statistics. Otherwise he's being intentionally misleading.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 05:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What is your evidence that I don't and you do possess the "ability to understand the very numbers that I post?"

What is your evidence that histories of specific kinds of "static numbers" have little meaning?
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 05:55 pm
@maporsche,
USA's population has increased annually 1980 to 2010. USA's total employment increased annually with three exceptions 1980 to 2007. USA's total employment decreased annually with zero exceptions 2008 to 2010.

What is your evidence that one needs "population in there to normalize the statistics?"

When a person loses their job, while total population increases annually with zero exceptions, it ought not matter to him or her how much the population has grown, while some others also lost their jobs, and some others did not lose their jobs.

When total employment increases annually with three exceptions, while total population also increases, that's a good thing that normalization will not make better or worse.

When total employment decreases annually with zero exceptions, while total population also increases, that's a bad thing that normalization will not make better or worse.

In other words, "normalization" is irrelevant to assessing the magnitude of the job loss calamity being perpetrated by Obama's administration.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 06:09 pm
Quote:
Dear Friend,

The day after signing the Declaration of Independence, John Adams wrote his wife, Abigail, “I am well aware of the toil, and blood, and treasure, that it will cost us to maintain this declaration, and support and defend those States. Yet, through all the gloom, I can see the rays of ravishing light and glory. I can see that the end is more than worth all the means, and that posterity will triumph in that day's transaction, even though we should rue it, which I trust in God we shall not.” Adams wrote those words not truly knowing what would come next. The thirteen colonies, with a rag tag army, a navy comprised of a handful of ships, and barely any money to sustain a war effort, had just declared independence from Great Britain, one of the great superpowers of the day. On paper, the fight looked impossible, even so lopsided as to be laughable. And yet just over five years later, through the trials of Valley Forge and multiple bloody defeats, the colonies did indeed win their freedom with Cornwallis’ surrender at Yorktown. Several years later, with the Treaty of Paris, those colonies became the independent United States of America.

I share Adams’ quote with you because I believe the same as Adams. Through the gloom of current circumstances, with statism seeming to have the upper hand in this great country, I am convinced that if you are determined to do all that you can in 2010 to fight against the growth and expanding role of government, we will turn the tide and put this country back on the course the Founders intended; a course of limited government, free enterprise and individual freedom. Those great principles took a small agrarian nation of the late 18th century, on the edge of a Euro-centric world, with just over three million people, and made us one of the greatest nations that history has ever seen.

I am convinced that beyond our current circumstances, if we will fight, lies a golden age for America in which we will be even more free and prosperous than we have ever been. It’s been said that decline is a choice, and a recent Wall Street/NBC poll revealed that over 60% of Americans believe this country is in a state of decline. American Majority’s message, and the message of the millions that protested in 2009 is this: we choose not to decline. We choose to be great.

American Majority conducted over 150 trainings in 26 states in 2009, training nearly 5,000 people on how to run for office or on how to become a better activist. Our goals for 2010 are even more ambitious because I believe we have an opportunity in the next few years to see one of the greatest political changes we have seen as a country since the founding. But we can’t do it without your help.

There is much more work to be done to stop the statism that is on the rise in Washington. We must stand strong and proud in our principles and bring conservative solutions to the forefront in 2010. Can you help us right now with a New Year's gift of $25, $50 or $100? Your support of American Majority will help us advance liberty in the critical year ahead and provide trainings to conservative leaders across the country. Please consider donating what you can.

Have a safe and happy New Year.

For Liberty,

Ned Ryun

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 11:04 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
What is your evidence that I don't ... possess the "ability to understand the very numbers that I post?"


From pretty much any of your postings. Can you speak Teabaggish, Ican?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 11:06 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
Dear Friend,

The day after signing the Declaration of Independence, ...


These whack jobs really are everywhere, aren't they, Ican?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 12:12 pm
@JTT,
I posted: What is your evidence that I don't ... possess the "ability to understand the very numbers that I post?"

JTT, you posted: From pretty much any of your postings. Can you speak Teabaggish, Ican?

And that response, JTT, constitutes what you believe is evidence!
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 12:28 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Quote:
Dear Friend,

***************************************

.....Can you help us right now with a New Year's gift of $25, $50 or $100? Your support of American Majority will help us advance liberty in the critical year ahead and provide trainings to conservative leaders across the country. Please consider donating what you can.

Have a safe and happy New Year.

For Liberty,

Ned Ryun




I excerpted only the most important part of the article quoted by ican.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 12:52 pm
@ican711nm,
Forget it, Ican. I know that you are fluent in Teabaggish.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 02:01 pm
Quote:
Can America Really Afford Mass Amnesty?

Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-IL) has held his promise! On December 15th he introduced H.R. 4321, the “Comprehensive Immigration Reform for America’s Security and Prosperity Act of 2009,” (CIR ASAP).

H.R. 4321 would grant amnesty to millions of illegal aliens, dramatically increase legal immigration, and create loopholes in existing penalties in exchange for promises of “enforcement” in the future. Additionally, at a gala sponsored by the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute this past Fall, President Obama indicated the need for passing an amnesty bill and resolving the issue of 12 million illegal aliens (you can see the YouTube video here). As you can see, the open border lobby and the current Administration are planning on pushing through mass amnesty as early as February of this year.

With our current economic situation and the highest unemployment in 25 years, is this really the time to talk about mass amnesty?

Today, American workers are facing a shrinking job market. Forcing American workers to compete with illegal aliens in this kind of job market is unfair. In addition, amnesty would make illegal aliens immediately eligible for many government programs, placing an unfair burden on American taxpayers and further straining already over-burdened government programs. Clearly, the costs associated with mass amnesty make this idea unwise.

Supporters of mass amnesty have said 'mass amnesty will benefit the economy'. They suggest that illegal aliens will begin paying taxes; but they fail to factor in the high costs of providing benefits and entitlements to this group of people, which outweighs the taxes they'd pay! A campaign is underway to push mass amnesty on the American people, a campaign financed with nearly $50 million from the likes of George Soros and the Ford Foundation.

Shouldn't we be investing our time and money in putting U.S. citizens and legal immigrants back to work? Shouldn't we instead work to strengthen existing safety nets for American families, instead of overburdening them as a result of amnesty?

FAIR has been a leader in the fight for common-sense, immigration reform for 30 years. Over this time, we have a proven track record of success. With the help of concerned Americans everywhere, amnesty for illegal aliens was defeated in 2006, and again in 2007.

Over the past two years FAIR has helped ensure that the voice of Americans who oppose amnesty is heard in Washington. We have been instrumental in the debate over sensible immigration reform and led the opposition to amnesty for illegal aliens. Our members have also opposed plans to import millions of more guest workers who depress wages and weaken working conditions. Our efforts include:
• Promoting and establishing laws that protect U.S. legal workers and enforce current illegal immigration laws (check out videos from our successful Hold Their Feet to the Fire event);
• Working with local activists and advocates to help further real immigration reform at the local level (read about our recent efforts in Florida and Nevada here);
• And, using the latest technologies to keep our members and volunteers engaged and informed.

0 Replies
 
 

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