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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 06:04 pm
@Thomas,
...and South Dakota did for credit card interest rates. (This was already mentioned and ignored.)

Prior to the Feds requiring states to accept cards from other states, states had their own usury laws. The consumer didn't win when the card issuers went to SD because ALL card issuers went there to make the same money.

You can argue all you want about how savvy consumers should have prevented the high card rates but the simple fact is most consumers need protection from themselves and we as a society need protection from the problems caused by the predatory practices that come back to attack society as a whole.

Think the current mortgage crisis.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 06:08 pm
@parados,
Parados -- In your opinion, would there be a problem with cross border competition as long as states can still enforce their minimum standards on "imports"? I'm thinking of something analogous to driving: The UK will let you drive on its streets with your US driver's license, but you still have to drive on the left there. Why couldn't the same deal be worked out for health insurance?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 06:10 pm
@parados,
If we need protections from ourselves, where does it end?

Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 06:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It ends in a world where the law takes our freedom to drive on the left side of the road. Oh wait, we're already in that world -- and there's nothing wrong with it!
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 06:17 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Parados -- In your opinion, would there be a problem with cross border competition as long as states can still enforce their minimum standards on "imports"? I'm thinking of something analogous to driving: The UK will let you drive on its streets with your US driver's license, but you still have to drive on the left there. Why couldn't the same deal be worked out for health insurance?


Analogies like that only work as long as you keep in mind that the relevant actors are constantly trying to game the system to the maximum amount possible...

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 06:48 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Yes, but that's also competition. It's up to the consumer to study what they purchase with their money; some are very good at buying things without doing any research.

How many 42" tv's do you think we now have in the marketplace? It's up to the consumer to determine what best meets his/her personal needs at what price? The price range can be dramatic even though they're all 42" tv's.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 07:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I think, as I read what yall (ci, cyclo and parados) are writing, you are not quite talking about the same thing.
The Republican plan calls for the sale of health insurance across state lines. It seems like a slam dunk to say that this will give all potential customers access to more providers and, therefore, cheaper premiums. That is the idea that ci likes.
I wrote about this in a 10/31 post on the Obama thread. Right down to the SD credit card debacle!
Here is another attempt to explain the problems with the Across State Lines idea.
"...(P)ermitting the sale of health insurance across state lines would undermine all existing protections, which are determined state by state. As Families USA revealed, state consumer protections-particularly in the individual health insurance market-vary dramatically from state by state. As the New America Foundation points out, (the) proposal would eliminate the best protections and bring all states down to the lowest common denominator: (selling health insurance across state lines) would have the ultimate effect of standardizing state regulations to the least restrictive level..."
(alternet.org)
I think that is what Parados was alluding to and Cyclops echoed.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 08:17 pm
@realjohnboy,
I'm not sure how selling health insurance across state lines would undermine consumer protections. If the feds sets up consumer protections with the authority to buy across state lines, what would be the difference? Can you clarify? Some of the state mandates on health care are money wasters without the benefit of better health - such as the right to buy wigs or massage therapy. I'm sure there are many money wasting mandates in each state that really doesn't protect consumer's health. I think "consumer protections" is too broad to have much meaning in this debate.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 08:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
With the national spotlight on health care reform and this week's apparent criticism of some screenings by the head of the American Cancer Society, Lunsford said he is considering submitting a bill to allow for insurers to provide coverage with potentially fewer mandates..

Georgia law provides that many health insurance policies cover certain tests and procedures, including mammograms, pap smears, colorectal screening, ovarian cancer screening and prostate cancer screenings.

Lunsford said he is considering introducing legislation that would allow employers to offer workers the option of health policies that don't include all the now-mandated procedures and tests.

He stressed that such legislation would not try to limit cancer screenings or major tests and procedures, but rather those he believes are not necessary to save lives. He said more review would be necessary to determine the choices.

Such a measure would provide for more affordability and flexibility in health insurance plans, Lunsford said. For example, young healthy people may not need all the coverage of an older person, he said.

But some state legislators worry that efforts to change the law will chip away the number of state mandates in policies, as well as tests and procedures covered under state Medicaid.

Rep. Mary Margaret Oliver (D-Decatur) said statements such as those of the American Cancer Society can make protecting state mandates "more difficult in the political world."

The controversy broke out after Dr. Otis Brawley, the chief medical officer of the American Cancer Society was quoted in a New York Times article Wednesday, saying that the benefits of some cancer screenings have been exaggerated. The article also indicated that the cancer society was preparing to alter its message on screenings for breast and prostate cancer, to emphasize the risk of over-treating small cancers and missing cancers that are deadly.

Brawley issued a subsequent statement Wednesday stressing that the American Cancer Society stands by its current screening guidelines.

"While the advantages for screening for some cancers have been overstated, there are advantages, especially in the case of breast, colon and cervical cancers," Brawley said in his statement.

He said that the American Cancer Society stands by its recommendation that women age 40 and over should receive annual mammograms to screen for breast cancer.

But some advocates worry that people at risk will take Brawley's criticism of some screenings as a reason not to get tested.

The criticism comes at a time when health issues -- including unnecessary tests and spiraling costs -- are under a microscope in the national discussion on health care reform.

Lunsford, the Georgia lawmaker, said many doctors order tests just to protect themselves.

"I think many tests are ordered when there are no precursors for it," he said.

Georgia has addressed the issue before. In 2005, legislators passed a law allowing insurers to offer employees and consumers alternative health benefit plans that do not contain all the state mandates.


I believe this issue needs to be investigated and acted upon.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 08:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/HealthInsuranceMandates2009.pdf

Quote:
A State-by-State Breakdown of
Health Insurance Mandates and Their Costs
A health insurance “mandate” is a requirement that an insurance company or health plan cover (or offer coverage for) common
" but sometimes not so common " health care providers, benefits and patient populations. They include:
• Providers such as chiropractors and podiatrists, but also social workers and massage therapists;
• Benefits such as mammograms, well-child care and even drug and alcohol abuse treatment, but also acupuncture
and hair prostheses (wigs); and,
• Populations such as adopted and non-custodial children.
For almost every health care product or service, there is someone who wants insurance to cover it so that those who sell the
products and services get more business and those who use the products and services don’t have to pay out of pocket for them.

The Impact of Mandates. While mandates make health insurance more comprehensive, they also make it more expensive because mandates require insurers to pay for care consumers previously funded out of their own pockets. We estimate that mandated benefits currently increase the cost of basic health coverage from a little less than 20% to perhaps 50%, depending on the number of mandates, the benefit design and the cost of the initial premium. Mandating benefits is like saying to someone
in the market for a new car, if you can’t afford a Cadillac loaded with options, you have to walk. Having that Cadillac would be nice, as would having a health insurance policy that covers everything one might want. But drivers with less money can find many other affordable car options; whereas when the price of health insurance soars, few other options exist.

Why Is the Number of Mandates Growing? Elected representatives find it difficult to oppose any legislation that promises enhanced care to potentially motivated voters. The sponsors of mandates know this fact of political life. As a result, government interference in and control of the health care system is steadily increasing. So too is the cost of health insurance.

By the late 1960s, state legislatures had passed only a handful of mandated benefits; today, the Council for Affordable Health Insurance (CAHI) has identified 2,133 mandated benefits and providers. And more are on their way.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 10:54 am
C-SPAN website has live coverage of today's House debate on health care.

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN_rm.aspx
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 11:01 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
debate
interesting word, I don't see any "debate." Actually I would be delighted to see some "debate."
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 11:01 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
they also make it more expensive because mandates require insurers to pay for care consumers previously funded out of their own pockets.

It makes it more expensive for who?
If consumers had to pay for it out of their pocket, having the insurance company pay for it, doesn't make it more expensive for anyone but the insurance company.

Quote:
We estimate that mandated benefits currently increase the cost of basic health coverage from a little less than 20% to perhaps 50%, depending on the number of mandates, the benefit design and the cost of the initial premium. Mandating benefits is like saying to someone
in the market for a new car, if you can’t afford a Cadillac loaded with options, you have to walk. Having that Cadillac would be nice, as would having a health insurance policy that covers everything one might want. But drivers with less money can find many other affordable car options; whereas when the price of health insurance soars, few other options exist.
It's interesting how it only affects the cost of the coverage and the premium but no mention is made of the cost of the care. It's nothing like buying a car or having to walk. It's more like arguing that some people buy a car with a lifetime's worth of gas and others have to pay for the gas themselves and if we mandated that all cars had to be sold with a lifetime's worth of gas then the car companies would go out of business. It's ridiculous since the gas is bought by the consumer one way or the other.

I'm surprised you didn't notice that CI.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 11:11 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Parados -- In your opinion, would there be a problem with cross border competition as long as states can still enforce their minimum standards on "imports"? I'm thinking of something analogous to driving: The UK will let you drive on its streets with your US driver's license, but you still have to drive on the left there. Why couldn't the same deal be worked out for health insurance?

There is usually a reason why insurance companies don't compete in a given market. The most likely one is that they can't offer policies that meet the state standards at a price competitive with other companies in that market. It isn't an uncommon occurrence for insurance companies to stop offering policies in a state because they can't make a profit there.

How can an insurance company from Arkansas compete in California if they don't have the volume to negotiate with care providers in California to get their costs down? They can't really require all care occur in Arkansas. Or perhaps they can, and the consumer won't notice it until the consumer makes an emergency room visit and the insurance won't pay for it because it is out of network.

The only way for it to work Thomas is for the Federal government to set standards that apply to all states. I can't wait to see the political argument about that one.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 11:12 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

It ends in a world where the law takes our freedom to drive on the left side of the road. Oh wait, we're already in that world -- and there's nothing wrong with it!


I can't think of a better response than that one.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 11:28 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

Quote:
debate
interesting word, I don't see any "debate." Actually I would be delighted to see some "debate."


My guess would be that you are still using Windows 95 and do not have the appropriate software to show the live streaming video on the C-SPAN website. Smile
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 11:35 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
Quote:
The only way for it to work Thomas is for the Federal government to set standards that apply to all states. I can't wait to see the political argument about that one.


I agree with this statement.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 11:38 am
@cicerone imposter,
So... you want a Federal mandate that tells insurance companies what kind of coverage they have to offer in their policies...

Isn't that Federal health care and what they are trying to do now?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 11:55 am
The true face of American Conservatism in 2008 and beyond - Incredible boorishness and childishness.



Embarrassing that this is what they've been reduced to - trying to shout down their opposition.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 11:57 am
@Cycloptichorn,
What can we expect from the "NO Party?"
0 Replies
 
 

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