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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 10:57 pm
@realjohnboy,
I believe that's an accurate observation on young voters; they are more liberal in their thinking about abortion and gay marriage.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 07:46 am
@realjohnboy,
Realjohnboy,
I'd agree with you on your assessment of Repub prospects if they intended to focus on abortion and gay rights as the basis of their endorsement or failure to endorse/fund moderate Repub candidates. But the folks engaged in tea parties are far more interested in attacking moderate candidates who fail to exhibit fiscal responsibility and limited goverment. Those who vote for gay and abortion rights will be identified, but as long as they don't support Obama's (and Bush Jr's) spending sprees, they will be OK.

Dems are trying to argue that the far right will be attacking every candidate who doesn't exhibit pure far right political positions. But that's spin and fear mongering on their part.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 09:20 am
@slkshock7,
Did you bother to read the stories about the tea baggers with bloody fetuses that went to Congress yesterday?

Quote:
Some of them dressed for the occasion. Before the speeches started, a man in a death costume grabbed a bullhorn and introduced two protesters dressed up as Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. Each was bound in chains and their clothes were spattered in blood. Baby dolls hung upside down from their chains. Around each wrist they wore bracelets made of what looked like small plastic fetuses.
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 09:40 am
@parados,
So was this the focus of the speeches as well? No...the focus of the speeches was to stop Obamacare.

No doubt abortion activists are engaged in the tea party movement, but you're stereotyping the whole group on the actions of a few.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:33 am
@slkshock7,
If they're trying to stop Obamacare, they should at least make an attempt to do it with facts - not the typical scare tactics of the conservatives/tea party.

I understand one of the demonstrators had a sign with a picture of starving figures at Dachau to represent Obamacare. For shame, and you are shameful for sharing in their scare tactics with your approval.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:36 am
@cicerone imposter,
the conservatives live for fear, it's their main selling point

don't ask what we can do for you, let us tell you why you should fear the other guy (and everbody else)
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:36 am
@slkshock7,
slkshock7 wrote:

So was this the focus of the speeches as well? No...the focus of the speeches was to stop Obamacare.


Did you know that the program gets higher ratings when referred to as 'Obamacare' than other names? Somehow I doubt it, or you wouldn't use that moniker.

Quote:
No doubt abortion activists are engaged in the tea party movement, but you're stereotyping the whole group on the actions of a few.


The abortion activist argument is a huge part of the anti-reform movement; Republicans are looking to make it impossible to get abortion coverage under not only the Public Option but ALL health insurance without taking out a separate rider.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:40 am
@djjd62,
That's the typical okie meme. His fear of communism has gone to the extreme of accusing Obama transforming our country into one. He has lost all common sense and logic to post his ignorance for all to see.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 12:27 pm
@slkshock7,
slkshock7 wrote:

So was this the focus of the speeches as well? No...the focus of the speeches was to stop Obamacare.

No doubt abortion activists are engaged in the tea party movement, but you're stereotyping the whole group on the actions of a few.



Don't you think you are trying absolve the whole group by claiming no one represents the group?

"The far right" isn't who you designate. It is the group that showed up. Their actions represent what they will do when it comes to candidates. Some will care more about certain items, but you can't discount one segment by claiming the other represents the true far right.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 12:41 pm
@djjd62,
I recently read a quote, I should have copied it but anywoo, it went something like this;

"A conservative is one who refuses to look at a new moon, preferring the tradition of the old moon."
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 12:51 pm
@parados,
Come on, Parados,
There were something like 5000 people there by the most conservative estimates...only about a dozen were extreme anti-abortionists. They no more represent the tenor of the larger group then Louis Farrakhan represents the tenor of the Democratic party because he supports Obama and other democratic Congressmen.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 12:53 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
cyclo wrote:
Republicans are looking to make it impossible to get abortion coverage under not only the Public Option but ALL health insurance without taking out a separate rider.


BS....all we are trying to do is prevent Democrats from using Obamacare as a lever for tax dollars to pay for abortions.
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 12:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
ci wrote:
...and you are shameful for sharing in their scare tactics with your approval.


I am very proud of what I and other conservatives accomplished in Virginia and NJ this week. This was not accomplished through scare tactics...but thru the thickheadedness of Obama and the far-left Democratic Congress who've foolishly rebranded themselves once again as tax and spend liberals.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 01:04 pm
@slkshock7,
Quote:
BS....all we are trying to do is prevent Democrats from using Obamacare as a lever for tax dollars to pay for abortions.


We, the caring ones, want our tax dollars spent on the important things. We don't mind half a million Iraqi kids dying because of our immoral decisions, preventing thousands of Cuban kids from getting needed medicines, napalming Vietnamese kids, or just sticking them in trenches and gunning them down, spreading cluster bombs and land mines all over the place so kids can be blasted into tinypieces, using phosphorus bombs on mothers and their children in Iraq or where ever.

We're really imaginative people that way.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 01:06 pm
@slkshock7,
slkshock7 wrote:

cyclo wrote:
Republicans are looking to make it impossible to get abortion coverage under not only the Public Option but ALL health insurance without taking out a separate rider.


BS....all we are trying to do is prevent Democrats from using Obamacare as a lever for tax dollars to pay for abortions.



No, you're not. Your leaders - and some idiot Democrats - are trying to prohibit any health plan in the proposed Exchange (which will be ALL private health plans within 5 years) from covering abortion, without a separate rider.

Besides. If health-care dollars are going to be spent by the government, you shouldn't get to decide what a doctor and his patient decide to spend them on. It's none of your ******* business. Not that this has ever stopped you bunch from sticking your noses in in the past...

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 01:21 pm
Quote:
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18643&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
BAUCUS BILL DOES NOT BEND THE COST CURVE
Although the Baucus health care bill (the legislation that recently passed the Senate Finance Committee) is often touted as the most fiscally responsible of all of Congress's reform plans, it relies on certain cost containment approaches that have not worked in the past and therefore does not bend the total health care cost curve downward, according to a new Lewin Group study.

Rather than fundamentally realigning incentives in the health sector to lower the overall cost of care, the Baucus bill imposes top down cuts in payments to medical providers which will only serve to shift costs around the current system, says the Lewin Group.

It adds to the deficit:
• The bill would add to the federal deficit in the first 10 years and beyond if it included a permanent "doc fix" to prevent cuts in Medicare payments to physicians under the Sustainable Growth Rate instead of only a one year temporary fix.
• Every year, Congress defers these reductions in pay to doctors but the bill creates false savings by pretending that Congress would suddenly let these cuts occur.
• More than $404 billion in savings over the first ten years are attributable to these savings -- and reductions in uncompensated care funds for hospitals that treat the uninsured (DSH payments) -- that are unlikely to fully materialize.
It increases total health spending:
• Under the bill, total spending in health care would rise from 17 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2010 to 25 percent in 2029.
• Spending by the federal government would rise by $400 billion over the next 10 years and $1.6 trillion over the next 20 years.
And it adds costs and delivers little savings to consumers:
• In the first 10 years, the bill would increase consumer spending in the aggregate by 3 percent, or $254 million.
• After 20 years, consumer spending would increase by 6.4 percent, or roughly $1 trillion.
• Despite President Obama's promise that the typical family would see $2,500 in savings under health reform, the Baucus bill would provide the vast majority of Americans who already have insurance an average of $8 in savings.
Source: Greg D'Angelo and Kathryn Nix, "Baucus Bill Does Not Bend the Cost Curve," Heritage Foundation, November 4, 2009.

For text:
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/11/04/baucus-bill-does-not-bend-the-cost-curve/

For Lewin report:
http://www.lewin.com/content/publications/Peterson_Finance_Report.pdf

Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18645&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
THE PUBLIC'S BEST OPTION: LESS GOVERNMENT, MORE CHOICE
Consumers benefit from choice and competition. The key to both is not more government regulation and control, but less. More competition among health insurers is a consummation devoutly to be wished. But there are far better ways to get there than a public option, says columnist Jeff Jacoby.

Tear down the barriers to buying health insurance across state lines:
• Under federal law, states are permitted to regulate "the business of insurance" as they see fit, and most of them have seen fit to allow the sale only of insurance policies licensed by their own state insurance commissions.
• As a consequence, there is no competitive national market for health insurance; there are 50 state markets instead, most of which are dominated by a handful of insurers.
Repeal mandatory benefits that make health insurance needlessly expensive:
• Compounding the lack of interstate competition is the way states drive up the cost of health insurance by making certain types of coverage compulsory.
• Consumers and insurers should be free to work out for themselves just how comprehensive or limited a policy should be.
• But state mandates prevent such flexibility by requiring insurance companies to sell a fixed array of benefits that many customers may not want.
• Individuals seeking plain-vanilla health insurance -- a policy that will cover them, say, in case of major surgery or catastrophic illness -- may find themselves forced to pay for a policy that also covers acupuncture, in vitro fertilization, alcoholism therapy and a dozen additional treatments.
• When compulsion takes the place of competition, the result is invariably less choice at higher cost.
De-link health insurance from employment:
• Nothing distorts America's health insurance market like the tax preference for employer-sponsored health insurance.
• Until that preference is removed, tens of millions of Americans will continue to rely on their employers' health plan instead of buying health insurance for themselves, they way they buy every other type of insurance.
• Fix the tax code, and no longer could insurance companies routinely bypass employees and deal only with their employers.
• Instead there would be intensive competition for individual customers -- and the lower premiums such competition would yield.
Source: Jeff Jacoby, "The public's best option: Less government, more choice," Jewish World Review, November 5, 2009.

For text:
http://jewishworldreview.com/jeff/jacoby110509.php3

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 01:24 pm
The Obama wealth REDistributors are promoting wealth redistribution by promoting their health care version of health insurance.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 01:27 pm
Current Republican leadership will be replaced by Conservative leadership prior to the 2010 congressional elections. With that leadership they shall win the 2010 election by a "land slide."
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 01:29 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Current Republican leadership will be replaced by Conservative leadership prior to the 2010 congressional elections. With that leadership they shall win the 2010 election by a "land slide."
sd

I'll file this next to your 2006 and 2008 predictions, both of which were totally and completely wrong.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 01:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
That's not the only issue; they can't figure out what pro-life is all about when millions on this planet are starving to death. They want to intrude in other people's lives to force them into having a baby, but they won't take on any responsibility for that life. If they think every life is so precious, they should go to Vietnam where they have the highest rate of abortions in the world - to save lives. Also, they have no clue on what to do when the woman gets pregnant by (gang) rape or incest. They still want that woman to bear a baby?



0 Replies
 
 

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