AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

So given all that, Fox, tell me why single-payer healthcare systems in every other industrial economy run at costs per capita about half of what our system does, cover everybody high-risk or not, produce better health care metrics than the US does, cover catastrophic illnesses, and haven't gone broke in the sixty years or so they've been in existence. We now have a large sample size and a long time of operation. This is not pie-in-the-sky we're talking here. It's objective reality.They work. They work better than the US.

We also know that the population of a Great Britain or a Germany or a Canada is a small fraction and far less diverse than that of the USA, they are far less lenient in how they treat uninvited visitors than we are, and they perhaps value personal freedom less than at least most Americans do.

I don't know that they do MJ since we aren't privy to see the books and analyze the real costs.

House Votes to Discipline Wilson for Outburst
(FoxNews.com, September 15, 2009)

The House of Representatives, on the heels of an impassioned and lively debate, voted Tuesday to formally admonish Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C., for accusing the president of lying during a joint session of Congress a week ago.

The vote was 240-179. Five lawmakers voted "present."

Ahead of the tally, lawmakers hurled an arsenal of accusations at each other over the issue, with Republicans calling the effort a "partisan stunt" and Democrats stepping up their condemnation of Wilson's original offense.

The decision to punish him on the floor of the House was made even though Wilson apologized directly to the White House Wednesday night. He also issued a written statement expressing regret.

Wilson said earlier that he'd done enough and it's time to "move forward."

"There are far more important issues facing this nation than what we're addressing right now," Wilson said on the floor Tuesday. "(President Obama) graciously accepted my apology and the issue is over."

"This is a sad day for the House of Representatives. I think this is nothing more than a partisan stunt," House Minority Leader John Boehner said.

But House Democratic leaders wanted further action taken. Wilson shouted, "You lie," after Obama claimed his health care reform plan would not cover illegal immigrants -- it is against House rules to call the president a "liar" or accuse him of "lying" when the House is in session.

The language in the resolution, released Tuesday afternoon, said Wilson's conduct was a "breach of decorum and degraded the proceedings of the joint session, to the discredit of the House."

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer made clear that he felt obligated to push the measure.

"None of us is happy to be here considering this resolution. I know I am not," he said on the House floor. But he said the issue of whether to proceed "with a degree of civility and decorum" is important.

"This is not about partisan politics or inappropriate comments," House Majority Whip James Clyburn, D-S.C., said. "This is about the rules of this House and reprehensible conduct."

The punishment took the form of a "resolution of disapproval," which is a milder version of other more traditional means of congressional discipline. Democrats said last week Wilson could avoid the slap on the wrist by apologizing to his colleagues on the House floor, but Wilson declined, noting his previous apologies.

A "resolution of disapproval" is not one of the four forms of discipline typically meted out in the House. The most commonly used means of punishment are expulsion, censure, reprimand or fine.

For instance, in 1997, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich was both reprimanded and fined for his book deal. Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., was reprimanded in 1990 for ethical breaches tied to a male prostitute. Republicans tried to censure Rep. Pete Stark, D-Calif., in 2007 for comments he made on the House floor about President Bush. But Democrats voted to set aside that effort.

Today, I need your help more than ever before. I've been under attack by the liberals for months and they've done everything they can to quiet my very vocal opposition to more government interference in Americans' lives. Now, it's gotten even worse, but I will not stop fighting against their policies that will only lead to more government interference, more spending, and higher deficits.

I should not have disrespected the President during his speech. But I am not sorry for fighting back against the dangerous policies of liberal Democrats. I will not back down.

- Rep. Joe Wilson

Stand with Joe today and help fight back against liberal attacks by making a donation to his campaign. DONATE HERE.

Democrats in Washington would rather attack my husband Joe Wilson and the cause he stood up for that night than work with him and his colleagues to find a real solution to health care reform.

I'm proud of my husband. Our family is proud of their father. Our nation is proud of Congressman Joe Wilson.

Thank you for everything you are doing and have done for Joe and our family. It warms our heart to know that so many Americans support him.

You don't understand. Germany has a mandatory system. That means you're forced to pick one of 240 health insurance companies. If you live in Arkansas, on the other hand, you have pretty much the choice between Blue Cross Blue Shield or no insurance at all.

Because monopolies are real freedom. It's the free market at work.

I disagree.

Insurance companies are putting their capital and assets on the line every time they write a policy. A small business may pay say $4000/year in insurance premiums for work comp coverage. One injury can require the insurance company to pay that $4000 plus tenfold or a hundredfold or more. You can't tell me the insurance company is not assuming risk.

El Stud and I pay around $1,500 year for auto insurance on our cars. One small fender bender can wipe out all the premiums the insurance collected from us, and a major accident can wipe out all the premiums we will pay in a lifetime. That is not insignificant risk for the insurance company.

The average USA healthcare premium for maximum coverage for a family costs about $1,000/month. One emergency room visit by one member of the family can wipe out that month's premium. An illness or accident or surgery requiring just a few days in the hospital will easily wipe out two or three times the annual premiums. A major illness or accident can wipe out all the premiums the family will pay over a lifetime. That is not insignificant risk for the insurance company.

Because so many are dependent on the insurance company to remain solvent, who can quarrel with the insurance company turning down certain kinds of business for which there is unacceptable high risk and/or charging higher premiums for those that present much higher risk.

Most states have insurance pools or have made some sort of that kind of arrangement to provide insurance for those that present more risk than the acceptable risk that the insurance companies can safely take on.

Quote:

Ah... the local/State public option --- thank you.

Quote:

But just as our government is not writing serous tort reform into its proposal or taking steps now to eliminate fraud and corruption from existing government programs, etc., it is also not even considering offering catastrophic insurance at an affordable cost and then letting the people arrange for their everyday needs. It won't even consider measures that would relieve the rest of us from being required to assume responsibility for the irresponsible.

You see... there you go assuming the uninsured and under-insured are simply irresponsible.

Quote:

Why is that do you think? Why is healthcare so much more critical than say housing or clothing or food? Why is the government presuming to require every citizen to pay for insurance for healthcare whether they want it or not, but do not require them to insure themselves for costs of other necessities of life?

Because we can no longer afford the cost of caring for everyone through emergency rooms. Because we can no longer afford to keep people alive for an extra few weeks or months. Because a majority of us can no longer look ourselves in the mirror and not see the pain all around us and want to do something. Sure, I'm a hard-ass when it comes to financial issues. But there's a human/humane component as well. It's simply the right thing to do.

And I can go to any doctor I want to go, stay in any hospital I like - even in any EU-country (and Switzerland plus a couple more countries).

Individual Market Health Insurance Reform: Portability From Group to Individual Coverage; Federal Rules for Access in the Individual Market; State Alternative Mechanisms to Federal Rules, [Federal Register: April 8, 1997 (Volume 62, Number 67)] [Rules and Regulations] [Page 16985-17004]. This interim final rule with comment period implements section 111 of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996, which sets forth Federal requirements designed to improve access to the individual health insurance market.

cicerone imposter wrote:

That's what the extreme conservatives have become; despicable congress members who have the support of like-minded republicans.

Palin, Wilson, Cheney, Rove, McCain, and Boehner; all representatives of the No Party.

What are the alternatives? One party with a few candidates vying for the same position? Or, a twin Democratic Party; perhaps, a fraternal twin - Democratic Right of Center? Due to the system of one person, one vote, the discourse on both sides is less than genteel sometimes.

It is no different, in my opinion, than a sports fan. One wants their team to win, since the winning team is in power. And, notice how there are always campaign promises that never get implemented. Politics, in my opinion, is a suckers game, since we do not live forever.

Monopoly?

The Justice Department considers an industry to be “highly concentrated” if one company has 42 percent of the market. In Arkansas " Senator Lincoln should take note " Blue Cross Blue Shield has 75 percent of the market. If you take government self-insurance plans out of the equation, it’s higher. The state ranks as the ninth most concentrated in the country. Is it any wonder that insurance premiums have risen five times as fast as wages?

It is our government who prevents people from going outside of Arkansas to find insurance though.

Arkansas people are pretty well restricted to those companies that offer services in Arkansas.

It isn't a matter of companies wanting to go INTO Arkansas.

I want the right and ability for the people to go OUTSIDE Arkansas or whatever their state of rsidence for their insurance coverage.

I don't know why BCBS is the biggest provider in Arkansas. Perhaps BCBS is an especially fierce competitor or state regulations or requirements discourage others from coming in. That happens in New Mexico a LOT--new regulations or especially annoying requirements send various insurance companies packing from time to time until the market becomes so narrow the legislature is inspired to fix the problem.

I wouldn't trust our government spokespersons or those they solicit or strong arm as advocates to tell you straight up how it is here. Those who work in the business know that is not the best way to learn the whole truth.

I don't know that they do MJ since we aren't privy to see the books and analyze the real costs. We do know that people in those other countries pay taxes at a much higher rate than we do, and we also know that some of the folks from those other countries come here for some of their healthcare because the waiting lists are so long where they are, etc. or they can't get the treatment they need.