AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@ican711nm,

It is illegal for voters to vote into office they think will serve their needs. Your interpretation of the constitution doesn't even come close, so quit saying it's against the constitution.

You don't have a clue.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

I would give up my 'government provided healthcare' in a heartbeat if there was a reasonable alternative. Unfortunatley for all but the most affluent or the most poor senior citizens, there is no reasonable alternative mostly because of existing government programs. I would love to be able to consult a specialist about a particular problem I have without having to go through my private physician who insists on a whole lot of other stuff before she will refer me to the specialist.

Does this mean
a) you can't get private health insurance as a senior,
b) you can't just go to a specialist (or get a referral from your family doctor)?

Yes you can get private insurance as a senior but it is prohibitively expensive for all but the very wealthy. Such plans are generally far superior to government plans which explains why the President and members of Congress are not willing to go onto the government plan once they get one passed. There is no incentive for private insurors to offer it to seniors. Private insurors (and employers) can kick seniors off their regular plans at Age 65 with impunity because Medicare is available to all.

And no, I can't consult a specialist on my own unless I pay for it out of pocket which I cannot afford and I'm too affluent to be a 'freebie'. Medicare requires that your family doctor refer you to a specialist before it will pay for it. And because our insurance system has been compromised by the government programs, among other factors, only the wealthy or the poor can usually afford that specialist out of pocket.

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@cicerone imposter,

My AAA Corporate Bonds are not bank bonds. What they have been paying for many years is what they are paying now. Fortunately, I did not invest in the bonds of banks that received bailout money. But if Obama continues his distruction of our economy with his stupid bailouts and other transfers of wealth, I expect that none of us will escape the consequences. Blaming George Bush for the economic consequences of Obama now doing more than three times worse than Bush, will not solve America's economic problems. Such blaming will obviously merely distract us into allowing Obama to make our economic problems more than three times worse.

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@cicerone imposter,

It is illegal for the politicians that Americans vote into office to steal federal government tax revenue and give it away to other people who do not lawfully earn it. Worse, a continuation of the election of such politicians will lead ultimately to our dependency on and bondage to dictators.

What most of us want as well as need is freedom from dependency and bondage! Only some of us are prone to be parasites demanding that the rest of us support their appetites for what others lawfully earn.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Quote:

Details for 912 Events
Dear Fellow Patriots,

The overwhelming outpouring of support from Tea Party Patriots is truly astounding! You guys are the most incredible Americans! Thank you! Thank you!

>From the emails and snail mails we have received over the last few weeks, we know many of you will join us in DC. Others will host local events to demonstrate with us in their home towns. Others have work and family obligations and will be cheering us on from those obligations. No matter where you are on September 12, whether you are in DC, at a local event, or watching the news coverage of the day, we will be united as Americans and standing shoulder to shoulder with other Patriots in presence and in spirit.

We will remind America of the incredible gift our Founding Fathers gave to us. As a united voice, we will stand up for the United States Constitution. We will be one voice demanding Congress restores fiscal responsibility to our national budget. We will remind Congress, the President, and our fellow citizens what limited government and free markets can do.

Be sure to check out the opportunities listed below to make your voice heard on September 12.

What's next? Will Tea Party Patriots actually have more weekly to do list emails? Yes. You guys have not needed our guidance over the August recess. You have made your voices heard at town halls across this country and have received tremendous news coverage in doing so. Look for those emails to start again this week, when Congress resumes.

912 March on DC Details
Still looking for buses to go to DC? Click to check out the most updated list of buses.

View the current agenda. Events are still being added to it so check it frequently. In addition to the March itself, there will be training opportunities, press conference, a doctor's rally, happy hour, Remember 911 and Support the Troops at Walter Reed, a Sign Making Event, and more.

Want to volunteer to help Tea Party Patriots while in DC? We still need volunteers to assist with the Doctor's Rally, the Sign Making Event, to greet fellow Tea Party Patriots, to give out flags, etc. Please fill out this form. We will be in touch with you this week about when and where to volunteer.

The Tea Party Patriots Hub in DC will be the Hyatt Regency on Capitol Hill: 400 New Jersey Avenue, NW, Washington, D.C., USA 20001. In addition to having our Sign Making Event at the Hyatt Regency, there will be Tea Party Patriots t-shirts and other gear available, a welcome desk on September 11, and a video hot spot where you can record your voice to tell why you are in DC. The Hyatt has a huge bar area and a nice restaurant if you would like a place to rest from the other planned activities. It is within walking distance of both Union Station and the Capitol.

The Tea Party Patriots Sign Making Event from 8 am - 11 pm on Friday, September 11 will be at the Hyatt Regency on Capitol Hill (400 New Jersey Avenue, NW, Washington, D.C., USA 20001) This will be the best place to go to meet and greet other Tea Party Patriots and to make your signs. While we will have supplies, it would be helpful if you bring your Sharpies and Poster Markers. Come stop by for an hour or stay the day. We'd love to meet you in person.

Where do we meet on September 12? If you are physically able to walk in the March, we would like you to begin gathering at Freedom Plaza at 9:00 am. We will march from Freedom Plaza to the West Lawn of the Capitol. At Freedom Plaza (1350 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20004, Metro Center Red, Blue and Orange lines; Federal Triangle Blue and Orange lines), we will line up by state according to this list. There will be speakers at Freedom Plaza, many of whom are Tea Party Patriots Local Coordinators, prior to marching. The March ends and the Rally will officially begin at 1:00 at the West Lawn of the Capitol. To accommodate as many speaker and musician requests as possible, there will also be speakers on the West Lawn before the official start time at 1:00 but the exact start time of these speakers and entertainers has not been determined. It will be dependent on how quickly the staging and audio equipment will be setup.

Have you registered for the 912 March on Washington? It's free. We need to know how many to expect so we have enough potties and appropriate sound and video equipment. Click to register now.

Be sure to read the Capitol Police Guidelines for Events at the West Lawn, and act accordingly.

Looking for other people from your state while you are in DC? Goto: http://912marchondc.ning.com/, click on Groups, and then click on your state.

Planning to visit your Congressman and Senators while in DC? Be sure to call their offices to schedule a time to visit. It will probably be best to visit in groups of 5 - 12 or so people. If you know of others from your area going, get a group together and visit the office. If the Congressman or Senators are not available, you might ask to visit with the Chief of Staff or other staff member.

Here's some other miscellaneous information including map of Capitol Hill, information about Freedom Plaza, Union Station, Capitol Hill Restaurants, overall map of DC, Washington Post Visitor Guide to DC, and Destination DC Visitor Information.

Thank You
Continue to keep up the incredible work you do to further our core values: fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government, and free markets. You are the heart and soul of this movement. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help you!

Tea Party Patriots Local Coordinator Team
Amy Kremer ([email protected], 678-495-8271, gchat: amykremer)
Jenny Beth Martin ([email protected], 404-326-096, gchat: jennybethm)
Mark Meckler ([email protected])
Rob Neppell ([email protected])

Tea Party Patriots, Inc. is a social welfare organization organized under section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code. Contributions to Tea Party Patriots, Inc. are not deductible as charitable contributions for income tax purposes.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Yes you can get private insurance as a senior but it is prohibitively expensive for all but the very wealthy. Such plans are generally far superior to government plans which explains why the President and members of Congress are not willing to go onto the government plan once they get one passed. There is no incentive for private insurors to offer it to seniors. Private insurors (and employers) can kick seniors off their regular plans at Age 65 with impunity because Medicare is available to all.

And no, I can't consult a specialist on my own unless I pay for it out of pocket which I cannot afford and I'm too affluent to be a 'freebie'. Medicare requires that your family doctor refer you to a specialist before it will pay for it. And because our insurance system has been compromised by the government programs, among other factors, only the wealthy or the poor can usually afford that specialist out of pocket.

Well, as you know we have a a mandatory health insurance system. And private health insurances, either alone (for those who earn a lot) or as 'subsidiary'.

As a stand alone insurance, it's a lot more expensive than than if you are a member of one of insurances within the mandatory system.
However, it's quite common - especially among seniors - to have one of those 'subsidary' insurances, e.g. paying 100% at the dentist, or get 100% of new glasses paid or ...

Within the mandatory system you can go to any hospital, and of course to any specialist practise you want to go, no matter how young or old you are. (The fees are cheaper though, when you get a referral from your family doctor - which is almost ever just a matter of a phone call).
[Besides that, many seniors have a specialist, mostly a psychiatric doctor or internist, as 'family doctor'.]

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Ican is Really helping your cause, foxy.

(is he on the payroll?)

there is a wealth of insight to be gained from studying bits of what you post between the slaps and protests.

take this one for example...

"And no, I can't consult a specialist on my own unless I pay for it out of pocket which I cannot afford and I'm too affluent to be a 'freebie'. Medicare requires that your family doctor refer you to a specialist before it will pay for it. And because our insurance system has been compromised by the government programs, among other factors, only the wealthy or the poor can usually afford that specialist out of pocket."

I especially like the use of the word "freebie".

you are able to use it so nicely that unless you are really quick digesting the silly verbiage, it doesn't even sound nasty.

good work...

there are many more examples just within this mini-statement, but I will leave some for the others to play with.

good day.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

And because our insurance system has been compromised by the government programs, among other factors, only the wealthy or the poor can usually afford that specialist out of pocket.

I'm quite taken by this little piece.

There is the first half of the sentence ... I would have thought Foxfyre would be in favour of this indication that the free market is working so uniquely in the U.S. In other countries, when one supplier comes in with a much lower cost than others, the competitors usually lower their prices in reaction. Not in the U.S. Apparently prices go up in the face of competition. Marvellous, ain't it.

and then, in the second half of the sentence, the poor can afford the specialist out of pocket. Really.

2 Replies

@ehBeth,

Well, I've tried to find some information why only either the wealthy or the poor seniors can be treated by a specialist in the USA ...

The free market in insurances is working here pretty well: it has just been published that the insurance companies in the mandatory system made a plus of nearly two billion Euros in the first six months (so I get even more money back than thought).
And the 50 or so (German) private health insurers [of course, insurers from other countries offer programs here as well] rival each other with offers ... especially for programs tailored for insured in the mandatory system.

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@ehBeth,

Actually, she's right on the second half of the sentence -- sorta. Medicaid provides coverage for the indigent (which is a fraction of "the poor") and the wealthy --- well, you know...

What she's failed to acknowledge are the large numbers of people (pick your favorite ## million from those being bandied around) who don't qualify for Medicaid, aren't insured through their workplace or Medicare, and are the very same folks who have no medical coverage whatsoever.

I have no idea what she means by the first half.

1 Reply

@JPB,

so the poor aren't paying out of pocket

not paying isn't the same as being able to afford something

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Yes you can get private insurance as a senior but it is prohibitively expensive for all but the very wealthy. Such plans are generally far superior to government plans which explains why the President and members of Congress are not willing to go onto the government plan once they get one passed. There is no incentive for private insurors to offer it to seniors. Private insurors (and employers) can kick seniors off their regular plans at Age 65 with impunity because Medicare is available to all.

I'm pretty sure that people over the age of 65 cost an insurance company on average a lot more than younger people. You seem to claim that insurance companies have no incentive to accept people over 65 years of age (at least at reasonable premiums) due to Medicare competing for the same age group. That raises a couple of questions:

- Wouldn't more competition (from Medicare, in this case) bring down prices rather than drive them up?
- What exactly would be the incentive for insurance companies to insure people over 65 at cheaper rates than what they currently offer, particularly if the only serious competition would simply go away?
- Absent any regulation outlawing the practice, what would stop insurance companies in a free market from "kicking seniors off their plans"?

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@ehBeth,

the indigent aren't paying out of pocket. the poor get nothing.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

...Catastrophic illnesses did bankrupt some people as they do now, but as bad as it is, bankruptcy is not the worst thing that can happen to somebody. ...

right! a little salt in the wound is good for ya!.

DTOM, I was trying to think and I think over my lifetime I have had five close friends/relatives who have filed bankruptcy. One was due to medical costs...

which is what we don't want to happen to people. aside from any compassion issues, it is not good when vendors have to eat outstanding billing. a person who is cleaned out by medical expenses can't afford to buy things.

and since hospitals are not allowed to turn people away, you and i still wind up paying for the uninsured in higher costs to ourselves.

i'm in no way proposing giving everyone the life of riley, just the basics. it will help them what ain't got it and those who have been taking up the slack at the same time.

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it's always a good idea to check out those morning emails

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/a-false-appeal-to-womens-fears/

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/rncs-bill-of-rights/

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/abortion-which-side-is-fabricating/

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/keep-your-insurance-not-everyone/

don't forget the one-way-hash (good reading for number lovers)

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/health-care-and-the-one-way-hash/

1 Reply

For the following age groups, how much does private health care insurance, with $5,000 per year deductible, currently cost the insured annually per person?
0 to 9
10 to 19
21 to 29
30 to 39
40 to 49
50 to 59
60 to 69
70 to 79
80 to 89
90 to 100

For the same age groups, how much will federal health care insurance, with $5,000 per year deductible, cost the insured annually per person ?

For the same age groups, how much will private health care insurance, with $5,000 per year deductible, cost the tax payers annually per person?

For the same age groups, how much will federal health care insurance, with $5,000 per year deductible, cost the tax payers annually per person?

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@ehBeth,

How about let's fact check the fact check with sources that are not associated with Annenberg who has a great deal of interest in seeing that whatever this President proposes succeeds? FactCheck.org may be absolutely right, and I am not dismissing their analysis out of hand, but I'm afraid they are too tainted to be trusted as the only source for these things.

Also you probably need to do battle with those who say that we don't even HAVE the final bill yet so who knows what will be in it and we shouldn't be criticizing until we know what is. Our fearless leaders have all pretty much admitted they don't know what is in it.

That makes you wonder how FactCheck is so certain, yes?

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

have you looked at what factcheck says? or have you assumed what the results are?

Why factcheck? originally I went there as the major conservative posters on A2k (primarily timberlandko, of course) recommended it on an almost daily basis. I learned that the mix of results was pretty even - sometimes the Republicans got whacked, sometimes the Democrats, sometimes the conservatives, sometimes the liberals.

Checking. It's a good idea.

(of course I'm still mightily pissed with the Obama campaign trying to riff on the good name of factcheck. probably won't ever forgive that bunch)

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over in freeperland

in response to

Quote:

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 28% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-one percent (41%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -13 (see trends). Sixty percent (60%) now believe the President is at least as ethical as most politicians.

Overall, 48% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. Fifty-one percent (51%) disapprove.

...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2333969/posts

Quote:

Unfortunately for the GOP, 0bama's disapproval is not translating into approval for the Republican party. Americans still don't feel like Republicans get it. Voters continue to feel like the Republicans have lost their way and are rudderless, and that won't change until the Republicans shake up their party leadership.

That needs to start in the House, by replacing the ineffectual Boehner with the more charismatic Mike Pence. To be a leader, you need people to want to follow you, and John Boehner doesn't have that. Mike Pence does.

Real Republican leadership is the missing element to the Republicans' elusive recovery. If they continue to ignore this into the midterms, their opportunity to regain power will slip away.

Quote:

I like PENCE he would be good and he’s from the “heartland” but Boehner and Steele has been a horrible leader for the RNC I think the guy must take vacations as often as Obama does you very seldom see him on FOX, I don’t know about the other news networks, I don’t watch any of them.
Come to think of it,other than mornings to catch news and Beck I don’t watch FOX at night.LOL.
I just wish a Rupert Murdoch type rich guy would come along and have no fair and balanced...but ALL CONSERVATIVE-ALL THE TIME NEWS NETWORK.

Quote:

Name anything any Republican in Congress has even done that is worth approving of and/or following?

The whole party is inept. I am on FR daily and we’re the proverbial echo chamber of the freaking party and I can’t tell you what we have to cheer about. All we know is that the Dems can’t get out of their own way bumbling about like the Three freakin’ Stooges.

Quote:

“All we know is that the Dems can’t get out of their own way bumbling about like the Three freakin’ Stooges.”

ANd in this era of dumbed-down, pilled-up voters, that may be more than enough. It worked for the Rats in 2006 and 2008.

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@ehBeth,

Yes, I have Factcheck favorited among several other sites that I use to check out this or that. And I am aware of at least most of those links because they have been emailed to me several times now along with a ton of other stuff re various programs proposed by the Obama administration. But overall I find Factcheck perhaps a little less thorough in their analysis and considerably more forgiving in their analyses when it is something being proposed or reported by the Obama administration. I attribute that to the Annenberg connection. It certainly does not disqualify Factcheck in any way from offering their point of view, but for me, I don't depend on them to be entirely objective when it comes to anything that Obama wants or says any more than I depended on them to get it entirely right when they are skewering somebody of whom Annenberg disapproves..

1 Reply

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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