55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 03:35 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
The Constitution does not specify what people not employed by the federal government can do. It simply grants power to the federal government to do specific things, and denies power to the federal government to do anything else.

And no where does it grant the power to make loans to veterans or other employees or former employees of the Federal Government.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 03:48 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Ican wrote: "The Constitution does not specify what people not employed by the federal government can do. ......"

DontTreadOnMe wrote: "ohh? sooo, the first amendment is for federal employees only? same with the second? and on and on?"

That's a nonsensical interpretation of what I wrote!


no it's not. Very Happy dude, it's a response to what you emphatically stated.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 04:19 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:


...Ron Paul, our most pure libertarian Congressional member,....


perhaps so. but not a pure libertarian if only by virtue of his anti-abortion stance.

it's hot, the air is full of burned up crap, i can't breath and cannot summon the strength to do much more than pick at nits today. grumble, grumble...

carry on.
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 04:28 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:


...Ron Paul, our most pure libertarian Congressional member,....


perhaps so. but not a pure libertarian if only by virtue of his anti-abortion stance.

it's hot, the air is full of burned up crap, i can't breath and cannot summon the strength to do much more than pick at nits today. grumble, grumble...

carry on.

Fox is such a fair weather fan of Paul. He wasn't good enough for her on the road to the white house, but now he's the purest. Neither was Bob Barr, but I bet if it suits her argument, then she'll be quite the fan.

Fox likes to call herself a "conservative" (as opposed to a "republican"), but the truth is that she's not so true to her beliefs as she claims. In the end, it's about beating the dems and not about supporting anything she claims to believe in. The GOP love people like her.

I don't think Fox is who she thinks she is.

T
K
O
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 04:36 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
...In other words, it's money because the government says it's money...


are we sure that hasn't always been the case? meaning when it comes to what the currency is based on, "why gold?". can't eat it wait, i take that back. i have had a couple of indian dishes where they drizzle a small amount of melted gold over it..... can't burn it to cook or stay warm. pretty much all it does is look nice.

in other words and similarly to your thought, isn't then gold the standard because because the government says it's the standard ?

same with wampum or those sticks (can't remember what they are called...) ?
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 04:46 pm
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

...Fox is such a fair weather fan of Paul. He wasn't good enough for her on the road to the white house, but now he's the purest. Neither was Bob Barr, but I bet if it suits her argument, then she'll be quite the fan....


funny you should mention that. our friend's son was in town last week from florida for a visit. he mentioned that the hip thing for a lot of young conservatives he knows to do is call themselves "libertarians" because they don't want to be associated with "republicans" and "crazy conservatives".

that may be helpful in drawing the republican party back from the abyss down the road...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 04:51 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Naw, there's nothing backing the US currency. People invest in gold when they think inflation will make the US buck worthless.

The fact of the matter is, many foreign countries use the US currency as their own, and many who do have their own currency also accept US currency. Many countries also base their exchange rate on the US dollar.

There's trillions of US currency floating around this world that's worth much more than our GDP, but it still seems to hold enough value for foreign countries to purchase US treasuries.

They "funny" dynamics of this devaluation now going on with the US currency is that our products and services become more competitive in the world marketplace, and our debt decreases without having to pay for it.

We know there isn't much money circulating in this country, because consumer debt is dropping as well as consumer buying. Retail sales continues its downtrend while more people are again buying homes at bargain prices.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 05:04 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:

...Fox is such a fair weather fan of Paul. He wasn't good enough for her on the road to the white house, but now he's the purest. Neither was Bob Barr, but I bet if it suits her argument, then she'll be quite the fan....


funny you should mention that. our friend's son was in town last week from florida for a visit. he mentioned that the hip thing for a lot of young conservatives he knows to do is call themselves "libertarians" because they don't want to be associated with "republicans" and "crazy conservatives".

that may be helpful in drawing the republican party back from the abyss down the road...

I saw this in college too. Even prior to the 2008 election. I don't think the Republican party is going to die, but rather it is going to be a house evicted and filled with a new roster. That new roster I believe over the next 20 years will look more like (not exactly) the Ron Paul's and Bob Barr's. If not, it will look a helluva lot less like the Michelle Bachman's, Ashcoft's, Geingrich's, and Cheney's.

T
K
O
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 05:29 pm
@Diest TKO,
According to a test I took some years ago, my ideal politician is Kusinich.
Probably would have voted for him if he was in the running in 2008.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 05:33 pm
@Diest TKO,
even that would be an improvement, i guess.


0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 05:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

According to a test I took some years ago, my ideal politician is Kusinich.
Probably would have voted for him if he was in the running in 2008.

I really like him.

I think the DNC doesn't support him because of image. He kind of looks like the weak and scared liberal the right likes to characterize the left as. Ironically, I bet he's got more balls to take on things.

T
K
O
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:10 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:


...Ron Paul, our most pure libertarian Congressional member,....


perhaps so. but not a pure libertarian if only by virtue of his anti-abortion stance.

it's hot, the air is full of burned up crap, i can't breath and cannot summon the strength to do much more than pick at nits today. grumble, grumble...

carry on.


How is his stance on abortion not libertarian? He is passionately pro life, yes, but many libertarians are. But I thought he was passionate about the federal govrenment getting out of the abortion issue altogether which is the libertarian view.

I disagree with Congressman Paul on too many key issues so that I would not be likely to vote for him unless he was running against somebody I disagreed with a whole lot more. But he does have some very good insight on some issues and I do respect and admire him very much for having strength and integrity of his convictions. He is not blown about by public opinion and with him you would at least know exactly what you were getting. I think he is an honest man.

I do hope your really ugly fire situation is resolved soon though. I hate when that happens and I hope you are staying safe.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:15 pm
@Foxfyre,
I didn't realize libertarian only required that the Federal government stay out of issues but it was OK for the state and local government to control all kinds of behaviors. That doesn't sound like the definition of "libertarian" to me.
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:19 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

I didn't realize libertarian only required that the Federal government stay out of issues but it was OK for the state and local government to control all kinds of behaviors. That doesn't sound like the definition of "libertarian" to me.

What's the big deal? Fox using her own definition in spite of everything contrary?

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:25 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:


...Ron Paul, our most pure libertarian Congressional member,....


perhaps so. but not a pure libertarian if only by virtue of his anti-abortion stance. ....


How is his stance on abortion not libertarian? He is passionately pro life, yes, but many libertarians are. But I thought he was passionate about the federal govrenment getting out of the abortion issue altogether which is the libertarian view.

I do hope your really ugly fire situation is resolved soon though. I hate when that happens and I hope you are staying safe.



according to "strict constructionist libertarianism" ( no doubt i will soon regret turning that phrase... Wink ), yes; the government should not even discuss the issue pro or con. and though i don't recall him showing up for op rescue or any of that, his answers during the election and debates fell closer to the republican tree than the libertarian tree. not that many have actually ever seen a libertarian tree because they are quite privacy minded.
---

thanx regarding the fire. it has really changed directions away from our house, although my sister in law's place was in the evac area for a while, along with a couple of friends. but the smoke is so danged all encompassing that everything is covered. you can actually see the larger particulates float by. hack, coff, skeezzzzzzz! Very Happy


Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:37 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Probably more Republicans are pro life on average than Democrats, but many Republicans are also pro choice just as many Democrats are pro life. Abortion is not a Republican vs Democrat issue, but is one of those personal issues that often involves moral convictions which makes public policy so very difficult to legislate. It is as wrong to say that a person who believes that life begins at conception and abortion is murder wants to enslave women or take away all their rights as it is to say that a person who believes the woman should have the right to choose wants to abort all the babies in the world.

And it is absolutely one of those sticky wickets in the current healthcare debate. Should national healthcare fund abortion on demand? Obama says it won't. Probably a substantial plurality of Americans don't want it to. There is nothing in the wording in proposed legislation that would prevent that happening, however.

And so the debate rages on.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:40 pm
Meanwhile, gleanings from my daily email.

This was labeled as a cartoon was in the Chicago Tribune in 1934 and pointed attention to the plan of action in the lower left corner of the drawing:

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq289/LindaBee_2008/ChicagoCartoon.jpg?t=1251679174


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:42 pm
@Foxfyre,
That's exactly what GW Bush did, and he created the biggest deficit after Clinton left him with a surplus.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:45 pm
@Foxfyre,
From the Progress Report.
Quote:

INHERITING RECKLESSNESS: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter," Vice President Cheney said in 2002 when pushing for a fresh round of tax cuts. With this attitude in hand, Bush passed on a budgetary nightmare to his successor. Bush came into office with an advantage few presidents have enjoyed -- a $230 billion surplus. But due to a $1.35 trillion tax cut in 2001, a $1.5 trillion tax cut in 2003, and a massive defense buildup through the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, Bush quickly blew through that surplus. The next president will "inherit a fiscal meltdown," Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-ND) warned in February 2008, as the Bush administration projected a budget deficit of $400 billion. After the financial crisis emerged last fall and the ensuing bailouts, Bush's budget deficit ballooned to over $1 trillion. As Center for American Progress Vice President for Economic Policy Michael Ettlinger explained, budget deficits swelled under Bush because his supply-side tax policies slashed revenues while failing to deliver strong economic performance.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 07:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

From the Progress Report.
Quote:
...But due to a $1.35 trillion tax cut in 2001, a $1.5 trillion tax cut in 2003, and a massive defense buildup through the Iraq and Afghanistan wars,..Bush's budget deficit ballooned to over $1 trillion. ....



1.35 + 1.5 + 1 = 3.85 Trillion.

over a third of the cost of the estimated cost of national health, spread over the next 10 years.

 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 01/10/2025 at 02:08:39