55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:06 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:

Our main salvation is that the Democrats aren't doing any better in articulating a message because they, like Cyclop, don't even know what it is. All they know is they're supposed to be good team players, parrot the party line and talking points, and pretend they know what they're saying and doing.


You are at least partially correct, that the Dems need better message control on this issue. We are hampered in part by the various corrupt Dems who have taken hundreds of thousands from the insurance companies and are working hard to keep any real reform from happening; but, that was to have been anticipated.

We know what the overall plan is - it's been articulated clearly several times. But the devil is in the details...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:09 am
@Foxfyre,
You're like a rollercoaster, Foxy, this feigned sense of reasonableness then the real Foxy surfaces, then you're back into your act once more, on down the slope.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:15 am
Speaking of 'clear messages', the following has been posted on a lot of blogs and is being circulated by email. I haven't been able to determine the origin yet. Some of you might want to report this to the Obama administration as one of those 'fishy' things they're asking you to report:

Quote:
"I have noted that many elected officials, both Democrats and Republicans, called upon America to unite behind Obama.

Well, I want to make it clear to all who will listen that I AM NOT uniting behind Obama!

I will respect the Office which he holds, and I will acknowledge his abilities as an orator and wordsmith and pray for him, BUT that is it!!!

I have begun today to see what I can do to make sure that He is a one-term President!

Why am I doing this?

It is because I do not share Obama's vision or Value system for America;

I do not share his Abortion beliefs;

I do not share his radical Marxist's concept of re-distributing wealth;

I do not share his stated views on raising taxes on those who make $150,000+ (the ceiling has been changed three times since August);

I do not share his view that America is Arrogant;

I do not share his view that America is not a Christian Nation;

I do not share his view that the military should be reduced by 25%;

I do not share his view of amnesty and giving more to illegal's than American Citizens who need help;

I do not share his views that Radical Islam is our friend and Israel is our enemy who should give up any land;

I do not share his spiritual beliefs (at least the ones he has made public);

I do not share his beliefs on how to re-work the healthcare system in America;

I do not share his Strategic views of the Middle East, and certainly do not share his plan to sit down with terrorist regimes such as Iran.

Bottom line, my America is vastly different from Obama's, and I have a higher obligation to my Country and my God to do what is Right!

For eight (8) years, the Liberals in our Society, led by numerous entertainers who would have no platform and no real credibility but for their celebrity status, have attacked President Bush, his family, and his spiritual beliefs! They have not moved toward the center in their beliefs and their philosophies, and they never came together nor compromised their personal beliefs for the betterment of our Country! They have portrayed my America as a land where everything is tolerated except being intolerant!

They have been a vocal and irreverent minority for years; they have mocked and attacked the very core values so important to the founding and growth of our Country!

They have made every effort to remove the name of God or Jesus Christ from our Society! They have challenged capital punishment, the right to bear firearms, and the most basic principles of our criminal code; they have attacked one of the most fundamental of all Freedoms, the right of free speech!

Unite behind Obama? Never!

I am sure many of you who read this think that I am going overboard, but I refuse to retreat one more inch in favor of those whom I believe are the embodiment of Evil!

PRESIDENT BUSH made many mistakes during his Presidency, and I am not sure how history will judge him. However, I believe that he weighed his decisions in light of the long established Judeo-Christian principles of our Founding Fathers!!!

Majority rules in America , and I will honor the concept; however, I will fight with all of my power to be a voice in opposition to Obama and "his goals for America ."

I am going to be a thorn in the side of those who, if left unchecked, will destroy our Country!! Any more compromise is more defeat!

I pray that the results of this election will wake up many who have sat on the sidelines and allowed the Socialist-Marxist anti-God crowd to slowly change so much of what has been good in America !

"Error of Opinion may be tolerated where Reason is left free to combat it." (Thomas Jefferson)

wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:18 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

One problem may be that Glenn Beck fans are adopting these types of arguments against health care reform:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RELWULoyIn0[/youtube]


Explain further Wandel. What objection do you have to Beck's argument? How do you think he is wrong? Do you think using a person's own words as evidence of their intent is somehow dishonest?


It seemed to me that Beck is arguing that health care reform is part of an Obama plan to achieve reparations for slavery. Beck seems to focus on racially divisive issues. If his fans buy his arguments, their debate on health care reform will be based on racial issues.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:19 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
Speaking of 'clear messages', the following has been posted on a lot of blogs and is being circulated by email. I haven't been able to determine the origin yet. Some of you might want to report this to the Obama administration as one of those 'fishy' things they're asking you to report:


Why would anyone? It's just a rant by someone who disagrees with Obama and the Dems politically. There aren't any actual lies about proposals that Obama or the Dems have made; just voiced disagreement.

Nice rant, though, I guess.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:20 am
@wandeljw,
It's an effective argument, because many conservatives hate our black president (they forget he's half white), and that re-enforces their bigoted thinking.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:27 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

One problem may be that Glenn Beck fans are adopting these types of arguments against health care reform:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RELWULoyIn0[/youtube]


Explain further Wandel. What objection do you have to Beck's argument? How do you think he is wrong? Do you think using a person's own words as evidence of their intent is somehow dishonest?


It seemed to me that Beck is arguing that health care reform is part of an Obama plan to achieve reparations for slavery. Beck seems to focus on racially divisive issues. If his fans buy his arguments, their debate on health care reform will be based on racial issues.


Well I was watching Beck the day he gave that verbal essay and I reviewed it on the Youtube clip. I don't read into it what you are reading into it, though Beck definitely, without saying it, does identify the Marxist liberation theology that is woven throughout much of Obama's rhetoric. It was almost certainly pounded into him through 20 years of sitting in Jeremiah Wright's church, and it is unmistakable if you listen closely with an open mind. It has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with using government power as a means of addressing past sins and bringing about 'justice' whatever form that might take and however convoluted the definition of that might be.

Liberals, however, will almost certainly use accusations of 'racism' to divert attention from Beck's basic message there.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:34 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxie, What you are saying and concluding is that most of the developed countries of this world are "Marxist liberation theology." Isn't it surprising that they are happier and healthier than us even though we're supposed to be the "richest" country in the world?

"Liberation theology" is based on christianity; so what's your problem with the majority religion of America?

Just another one of your contradictions.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:37 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
I am going to be a thorn in the side of those who, if left unchecked, will destroy our Country!! Any more compromise is more defeat!


Isn't this Ican?
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:45 am
foxfyre wrote:
It has everything to do with using government power as a means of ddressing past sins and bringing about 'justice' whatever form that might take and however convoluted the definition of that might be.


What are these past sins that are being addressed by Obama's "Marxist liberation theology"?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:48 am
@JTT,
I know I'm a thorn to Foxie. LOL
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:51 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

foxfyre wrote:
It has everything to do with using government power as a means of ddressing past sins and bringing about 'justice' whatever form that might take and however convoluted the definition of that might be.


What are these past sins that are being addressed by Obama's "Marxist liberation theology"?


Well, in Beck's rhetoric, you can pick out the racially disadvantaged, the underserved (by healthcare, education, etc.), the chronically unemployed, those disadvantaged in any way by lack of diversity. I don't know if Beck is correct that Obama sees these 'mistreated groups' as mostly racial minorities and is focusing mostly on that, but Obama certainly does use racial minorities as the only illustration when he is speaking to groups made up of mostly minorities.

But if 'reparations' of the mistreated, neglected, oppressed, etc. is the goal--and I think Beck is probably not far off the mark in his evaluation of that--then that only reinforces the Marxist notion that government is the appropriate way to force the oppressors to provide reparations (and therefore equality and justice) to the oppressed.

Of course Marx thought that once equality and justice (reparations) were achieved, government could then be eliminated and Utopia would prevail. Somehow those employing Marx's theology never quite get to that part though.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:56 am
@Foxfyre,
I am pretty pissed off at Obama, but I guess I still agree with him generally.

Quote:
I do not share his Abortion beliefs; I do

I do not share his radical Marxist's concept of re-distributing wealth; If I thought he was as extreme as Marx was, then I wouldn't either.

I do not share his stated views on raising taxes on those who make $150,000+ (the ceiling has been changed three times since August); I do

I do not share his view that America is Arrogant; I do

I do not share his view that America is not a Christian Nation; I do

I do not share his view that the military should be reduced by 25%; I do

I do not share his view of amnesty and giving more to illegal's than American Citizens who need help; I'm on the fence about illegals.

I do not share his views that Radical Islam is our friend and Israel is our enemy who should give up any land; I am afraid of all religions and think that any nation who is ruled by such doctrine needs to be held back wtih a long stick.

I do not share his spiritual beliefs (at least the ones he has made public); Nor do I. I want an atheist president.

I do not share his beliefs on how to re-work the healthcare system in America; Nor do I; at least not how I've seen them go through congress.

I do not share his Strategic views of the Middle East, and certainly do not share his plan to sit down with terrorist regimes such as Iran. I'm not sure here.

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:11 am
@JTT,
Quote:
"Error of Opinion may be tolerated where Reason is left free to combat it." (Thomas Jefferson)


You are free to be as erroneous as you want as long as you don't shout down others at town hall meetings.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:12 am
@wandeljw,
what can ya say; glenn beck gives good paranoid.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:21 am
Nah, these protests aren't being Ginned up by the right-wing groups at all.

Quote:
Email: Tea Baggers Hoping For "Riot" At Rep. Scott's Town Hall
By Zachary Roth - August 12, 2009, 12:21PM

Tea Baggers are hoping for a literal "riot" at an upcoming town hall event, in order to create a spectacle for CNBC's cameras. And the event will be hosted by a Democratic congressman who this week had a swastika painted on a sign outside his district office.

Yesterday, Tea Party Patriots national coordinator Jenny Beth Martin sent an email, obtained by TPMmuckraker, to a Tea Party google group. Martin told the group: "We have a media request for an event this week that will have lots of energy and lots of anger. This is for CNBC."

She then asked: "So, where are the big events this week and where can TPP best be represented on the news?"

Later that day, a Tea Bagger named Pat Wayman responded with a suggestion, also obtained by TPMmuckraker: "This one should be a riot! literally...." he wrote.

Wayman then posted information for an upcoming town hall meeting hosted by Rep. David Scott (D-GA).

As Wayman noted, "[t]his is the Congressman who got a swastika painted on his office sign last night."

It's interesting that, at least in Martin's telling, the pro-business CNBC was specifically looking for an event with "lots of energy and lots of anger." Earlier this year, they just relied on their own correspondents for that.

But it's even more interesting that the Tea Baggers were only to happy to try to provide that anger.


http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/email_tea_baggers_hoping_for_riot_at_rep_scotts_to.php?ref=fpblg

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:24 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxie, How about just "unemployed" without the adverb chronically? Tens of thousands are losing their jobs every day in this economy, and those losing jobs are not by choice. Believe it or not many of those also includes MACs-conservatives, and they all collect unemployment benefits. How dare they? They're all against the "liberal theology."
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:39 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
But if 'reparations' of the mistreated, neglected, oppressed, etc. is the goal--and I think Beck is probably not far off the mark in his evaluation of that--then that only reinforces the Marxist notion that government is the appropriate way to force the oppressors to provide reparations (and therefore equality and justice) to the oppressed.


My my my, isn't that the story line, the mantra, used by the US to justify their incursions around the globe, "we provide equality and justice to the oppressed".

Whoda ever thunk it, the US government is and has pretty much always been, Marxist, even before there was a Marx.

You, and Beck of course, stand as shining examples of the saying, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:41 am
@parados,
Quote:
Re: JTT (Post 3731085)
Quote:
"Error of Opinion may be tolerated where Reason is left free to combat it." (Thomas Jefferson)


You are free to be as erroneous as you want as long as you don't shout down others at town hall meetings.


Did I say this, did I quote, TJ, Parados?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:52 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Speaking of 'clear messages', the following has been posted on a lot of blogs and is being circulated by email. I haven't been able to determine the origin yet.


Since it just comes up with a few google pages - they are signed by Larry Sparks, 2112 Camaro Lane, Hoover, Alabama, since (at least) November 2008.
0 Replies
 
 

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