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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 10:30 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Show me that Scott Rasmussen is even a registered Republican, much more so an 'avowed Republican'. Show me any evidence that his polling is biased toward anybody or anything. Put your evidence where your mouth is.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 10:37 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Show me that Scott Rasmussen is even a registered Republican, much more so an 'avowed Republican'. Show me any evidence that his polling is biased toward anybody or anything. Put your evidence where your mouth is.


His polling consistently and continually favors the Republican position over ALL other polling firms. He's a regular guest and shill for Republican positions on Fox News. His actions and those of the firm that he runs consistently favor the Republican position and his headlines trumpet pro-Republican positions and bury anti-Republican ones. Not hard to figure out what is going on.

When your polls consistently are outliers of all other polling, it is evidence of a bias. Period. A large part of this is due to the fact that Ras uses a Dem-Republican sample which nobody else uses, b/c he has far too many Republicans - more than anyone else can find by polling.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 10:43 am
@Cycloptichorn,
ALL? Are you sure? Can you prove it? Seems to me that he pretty closely parallels Pew and Quinnipac. And he is rated very high for accuracy. Could it be that his accuracy beats almost all the media polls because THEY skew their data, polling question, favor Democrats? Hmmmm?

Or is it that you can't stand to see the Republicans get a fair representation in the polls?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 10:44 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Here's an interesting study concerning polling from different polling organizations. It reveals why they differ.
http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/2006/04/rasmussen_and_p.html
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 10:44 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

ALL? Are you sure? Can you prove it? Seems to me that he pretty closely parallels Pew and Quinnipac. And he is rated very high for accuracy. Could it be that his accuracy beats almost all the media polls because THEY skew their data, polling question, favor Democrats? Hmmmm?


I haven't seen evidence that his accuracy beats 'almost all the media polls.' And please - don't put that stupid Fordham link up again, I'd hate to have to show you it was wrong for the third for fourth time.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 10:47 am
@Cycloptichorn,
You haven't even shown it was wrong for the first time. And nobody....I mean NOBODY but you and a couple of others or the extreme leftwing wacko blogs have challenged the Fordham assessment.

But okay, let's agree to disagree. You want to believe the alphabet media sources are pure as the driven snow and anything they print or publish or any poll they conduct is the real deal and you want to believe Rasmussen sucks. You have nothing but your own bias and prejudices to back it up with, but that's cool.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 10:51 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

You haven't even shown it was wrong for the first time.


Of course I did, and Parados as well - that Fordham link was not based on the final data, but instead released the DAY AFTER the election. The final results were considerably less worth crowing about for Ras.

You have never once addressed the truth of this and it has been brought to your attention at least 4 times now. Will you have the guts to do so now?

Quote:
And nobody....I mean NOBODY but you and a couple of others or the extreme leftwing wacko blogs have challenged the Fordham assessment.


I guess nobody felt the need to.

Quote:
But okay, let's agree to disagree. You want to believe the alphabet media sources are pure as the driven snow and anything they print or publish or any poll they conduct is the real deal and you want to believe Rasmussen sucks. You have nothing but your own bias and prejudices to back it up with, but that's cool.


No, I am not interested in proving that the 'alphabet media' is anything at all; however, there is one poll which is a consistent outlier, favoring the Republican party, and that's Rasmussen. And that's why you and other Republicans use them as your pollster of choice. You ought to have the guts to admit that as well.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 10:57 am
@Cycloptichorn,
And that "one" outlet (as you consistently dismiss Pew and Quinnipac as relevant apparently) is consistently more accurate than the polls you seem to prefer. I have shown evidence for that. You have shown zero evidence for your opinion. And if your intent is just to continue to express your unsubstantiated (and unsupportable) opinion over and over as if that will somehow make it accurate, this discussion is over for me. Because it is incredibly boring.

Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 11:00 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

And that "one" outlet (as you consistently dismiss Pew and Quinnipac as relevant apparently) is consistently more accurate than the polls you seem to prefer.


Pew and Quinnipac are not consistently pro-Republican in the way that Ras is - not even close.

As for the 'more accurate' line: This is untrue, and merely your opinion b/c Ras confirms your biases. And I never see you posting Q-pac or Pew polls, just Ras ones, so why do you even bring them up?

Now:

Quote:

You have never once addressed the truth of this and it has been brought to your attention at least 4 times now. Will you have the guts to do so now?


Address the truth that the Fordham link was based on election-day data, and not the full results. I dare you to. Let's just put this to rest right now, before you try and bring it up again.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 11:06 am
@ican711nm,
Obama has not only emulated Bush's cause of the problem, he has expanded the cause of that problem and has caused far worse results.

Employment History
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt

Gross Domestic Product History
http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TablePrint.asp?FirstYear=1965&LastYear=2008&Freq=Year&SelectedTable=5&ViewSeries=NO&Java=no&MaxValue=14412.8&MaxChars=8&Request3Place=N&3Place=N&FromView=YES&Legal=&Land=

Gross Domestic Product History by quarter 2006 1st quarter to 2008 4th quarter.
http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=5&Freq=Qtr&FirstYear=2006&LastYear=2008

2009 GDP History
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/02/18/afx6067181.html
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 11:39 am
@ican711nm,
ican, You just don't know how to translate information. This recession started in 2007, and Bush has the distinction for the worst job creation of any president. When there's a down-trend in employment (increase in unemployment by the tens of thousands 24/7 for the months preceding Obama's taking over the white house) it's impossible for any human to turn that around on a dime - except maybe your god. But we know for a fact that your god isn't going to be helping us humans any time soon.

If you can get your head out of your ass and look at the facts, you'll learn very quickly that this is a world economic crisis. To repeat: the bulk of stimulus plan monies have not been distributed.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:00 pm
--Along with multiple broken promises . . .
--Along with a tanking economy used as an excuse for more pork barrel spending but no credible plan for economic recovery. . .
---Along with huge expansion of government in size and power that threatens to limit our freedoms and choices more than ever while taxing us more than ever. . .
--Along with the President and Congress living lifestyles that thumb noses at Americans struggling to survive the worst recession in most of our memories and also making it clear that they have no intention of being subject to the new way they intend to force on the rest of us. . .
--Along with the President and his surrogates apologizing for America's 'sins' everywhere he goes, handing out goodies to friends and supporters, extending 'rights' to terrorists and condemning, intimidating, attacking, and marginalizing those who dare to dissent. . .

Right or wrong in perception, this video on the healthcare debate underscores why conservatives--GOP, Democrat, Libertarian, and unaffiliated independent conservatives--are giving the President and Congress lower and lower marks:

Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:02 pm
@Foxfyre,
So, you are not going to address the Fordham link controversy? Can I at least have a promise from you that you won't try and use it again to prove that Ras is the best pollster?

Poor form to drop a point like that instead of just admitting you were wrong.

Cycloptichorn
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:09 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/possum.jpg




    http://www.thinkgeek.com/blog/2009/03/23/apollo-oh-no-not-again.jpg


0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:26 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I told you Cyclop that until you can back up your opinion, the discussion is over for me. I was not wrong about Fordham which I have clearly demonstrated. You have not clearly demonstrated anything other than your own repetitious opinion.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:34 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

And the views suggest that the majority of the people continue to be more conservative than liberal:

1) They value freedom over the nanny state.

ohh... so that's why they are all upset about fraudulent anti-healthcare reform emails being reported, but never said a word about the warrantless wire taps. or having all of your belongings pawed through while you take your shoes off at the airport... or being told "you have to watch what you say".

but a question about government and healthcare... from what you guys are saying, it's only bad socialist, nanny state healthcare until we reach the age of 65. then it becomes perfectly okay to receive social security and medicare, burdening all of these children and children's children we keeping hearing about. not that we ever heard a word about their future impoverishment during the 8 year spending orgy of the iraq war and the tax cuts etc...


2) They have a healthy distrust of government that chooses to be obscure and opaque instead of up front and transparent.

you are kidding here, right? tell me, who was it again on cheney's energy task force? what was the original cost of the medicare drug benes ? 1.5 billion? then as soon as it's signed, woosh!, it's magically closer to 5 billion? please.... as if any of them are all that transparent.

probably a good thing they aren't... the complexity of all of this crap would freak a lot of people out..



3) They are less and less trusting of a media that has lost its objectivity and serves as shill for the Administration.

you are correct. Fox News and it's coterie of barking heads lost ground over the last couple of years among people who actually think about what they are being fed.

4) They trust themselves to spend their money on their own behalf than they trust the government to spend it for them.

sure... i trust them too. i trust them to always wave a flag as they try to starve the goose that lays the golden eggs. and to then continue complaining.

5) Growing majorities are objecting to the rapidly increasing size of government, runaway spending, and object to how the money is being used.

wouldn't necessarily say majorities. majority of republicans maybe. big surprise, that.

here, why don't we do this. let's all quit paying taxes of any kind. let's all keep our money and spend it the way we think we should.

let's see how long the country lasts after that.







marsz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:36 pm
But even CNN does not agree with left wing

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The middle class may have to pay more in taxes. That was the media's takeaway from comments made Sunday by Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner.

Once the economy recovers, Geithner said on ABC's "This Week," the United States is "going to have to do what it takes" to get the deficit under control -- and he said, like many budget analysts before him, health reform alone can't do the job.

"We're going to do a range of other things and that's going to be a very difficult challenge for this country," Geithner said.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs scrambled to set the record straight Monday afternoon during his daily briefing. "I am reiterating the president's commitment in the clearest terms possible that he is not raising taxes on those that make less than $250,000 dollars a year," Gibbs said.

It's not entirely clear what Geithner was getting at. And there certainly are plenty of ways to raise revenue that don't involve taxing the middle class. But for President Obama to rule it out altogether when trying to combat major deficits makes the job so much harder.

As does another of Obama's big promises: to make permanent the tax cuts passed under former President George W. Bush for everyone except families making more than $250,000.

The president and his advisers seem to want it both ways on the tax cuts. On the one hand, they correctly identify those cuts -- which were not paid for -- as being one of the major culprits in creating the $1.3 trillion deficit the new administration inherited.

At the same time, the White House itself is not proposing to let those tax cuts expire -- a move that would raise an estimated $2 trillion over 10 years. Nor is it proposing to pay for the cost of making them permanent.

To be sure, the administration is pushing Congress to pass so-called pay-as-you-go rules, which would require lawmakers to pay for any tax cuts or spending increases they pass so they don't increase the deficit.
marsz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:40 pm
CNN MONEY-

The president and his advisers seem to want it both ways on the tax cuts. On the one hand, they correctly identify those cuts -- which were not paid for -- as being one of the major culprits in creating the $1.3 trillion deficit the new administration inherited.

At the same time, the White House itself is not proposing to let those tax cuts expire -- a move that would raise an estimated $2 trillion over 10 years. Nor is it proposing to pay for the cost of making them permanent.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:40 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I told you Cyclop that until you can back up your opinion, the discussion is over for me. I was not wrong about Fordham which I have clearly demonstrated. You have not clearly demonstrated anything other than your own repetitious opinion.


Ridiculous.

Do you or do you not admit that the Fordham conclusion was based on election-evening data, and not the full results of the election? You have already been shown that the two totals are quite different.

You have not demonstrated that you were 'not wrong' about the Fordham conclusion; you have dropped the point every time it has been raised. Or perhaps you can link to said demonstration?

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:43 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
I am willing to love you no matter how wrong you are DTOM Smile

I appreciate that you are 100% committed to your point of view and passionately certain that you are right and I am wrong.

The polls, however, are on my side, and even some of the more biased of those are beginning to show it.
 

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