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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:17 am
@Foxfyre,
I think you been there, done this, Foxfyre.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 05:26 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
As Williams stated, slavery was a gross violation of human rights and a great injustice with nothing to commend it. Yet not all slave owners were terrible people. And there were all kinds of situations involved. And while our nation, as does every other nation, has slavery in its history, it is time to appreciate that we have learned and grown and evolved from that history, and it is time to move on.


Now let's practice what you preach and apply that sentiment to real life:

The United States Supreme Court wrote:
Had those who drew and ratified the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth Amendment or the Fourteenth Amendment known the components of liberty in its manifold possibilities, they might have been more specific. They did not presume to have this insight. They knew times can blind us to certain truths and later generations can see that laws once thought necessary and proper in fact serve only to oppress. As the Constitution endures, persons in every generation can invoke its principles in their own search for greater freedom.


Source: LAWRENCE et al. v. TEXAS

The oppression of people based on their race "was a gross violation of human rights and a great injustice with nothing to commend it." The institution of slavery, however, was so cherished that the slave holders and their advocates in the Southern states chose to wage war rather than allow colored people to live among them as equals. The same is true concerning the modern day oppression of people based on their sexual orientation. Yet, Foxfyre has expressed her position on many occasions that she desires to continue the oppression and deprive homosexuals of the same rights and privileges that she reserves for herself.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 07:33 am
This morning, Kathleen Parker wrote in the WP...
Quote:
Southern Republicans, it seems, have seceded from sanity.


A tad slow but she got there.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 07:55 am
We have already posted a speech in which then candidate Obama expresses his intention for a single payer healthcare system--something his administration is trying very hard to divert attention from now. But, in case anybody is still clueless about what the long range goal is of the liberal Democrats in Congress are re healthcare:

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 07:55 am
@Debra Law,
That's because people like Foxie confuses our Constitution and religion without any regards to equal rights. They fight over words like "marriage" based on ignorance considered from the factual point of view that there is nothing "sacred" about marriage when half of those who commit themselves to their spouses in marriage end up in divorce. Hypocrisy is always their blind call as they speak with forked tongue. Many divorce and leave behind innocent children who end up confused and angry. How about them? Don't they count?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 08:02 am
And though Blatham (conveniently?) did not provide a link to Kathleen Parker's most recent diatribe against conservative Republicans, I will post (with a link) a passionate and reasonably competent rebuttal to it:

Quote:
Washington Post: “Southern Republicans have seceded from sanity”
Wednesday, August 5, 2009

Posted in category Establishment Rightists1 CommentNeocon Kathleen Parker has written an amazing piece of tediously conventional, anti-Southern trash out of sheer ignorance. Parker blames the dereliction of the GOP " which has become a party with barely noticeable distinctions from its Democratic opponent " on “ignorant, right-wing, Bible-thumping rednecks.” Miss Parker, in her bigoted sketch making modern Southerners look like slaveholder wannabees, refers to a “sense of a resurgent Old South and all the attendant pathologies of festering hate and fear.”

Miss Parker hilariously hallucinates with politically-correct fantasies that bring forth visuals of the glorious North still fighting the Civil War, trying to end slavery in the South. Perhaps she is fantasizing about a new version of Abraham Lincoln, a known racist, when she comments that the Republicans should collectively “drive a stake through the heart of Old Dixie.” According to Parker, her GOP " the GOP that gave us the Security State, the Patriot Act, myriad wars, a militarized police state, a corporatist Wall Street, and the worst budget snafus ever " is the good GOP, yet it has been co-opted by these roving bands of skeptical Southerners fighting the mega-socialist state being put forth by Obama and his committed minions. How dare they! If only they could all just get along and play the partisan game, we could move forward swimmingly and enjoy our lives under tyranny in unity and peace.

As one who has grown up " and lives " in the land of the glorious, triumphant Union, and has one who has traveled extensively throughout the South since the early 1980s, learning about its people and its culture up close and personal, I have witnessed no greater polarization and hate and racism than right here in the North. In fact, I invite Miss Parker (born in Florida, living in South Carolina) to come up here to Detroit if she wants to see hate and fear and racism " of both the black and white variety.

Or perhaps she can take the time to breeze through U.S. census data. It is well known that the most segregated cities in the U.S. are northern, and in fact, most data shows that they are Midwestern industrial cities. Whether or not you use the 1990 census data or the 2000 data, the cities on the list remain consistent: Detroit, Milwaukee, Ceveland, Chicago, Buffalo, Gary, Newark, Cincinnati, etc. Yet since a few scattered Southern Republicans oppose the merging of the minds for a Republicrat-Demopublican joint force to subdue liberty once and for all, it must be that hate-racist thing rearing its reptilian mind again.

Since Miss Parker is in fact ignorant of history and can only recite modern scuttlebutt that will please her colleagues in the media and Washington D.C., I’ll remind her of the scholar Alex de Tocqueville, who said: “Race prejudice seems stronger in those states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists, and nowhere is it more intolerant than in those states where slavery was never known.” Some things haven’t changed in the last 150+ years, Miss Parker. Y’all come on up here and learn for yourself instead of flinging rhetoric from the establishment pulpit known as the Washington Post.
http://karendecoster.com/washington-post-southern-republicans-have-seceded-from-sanity.html


I think both Republicans and Democrats might find some minor points of disagreement with Ms. deCoster's illustrations, but her basic thesis I think merits consideration.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 09:24 am
@Foxfyre,
Here is the actual column that Ms. DeCoster is responding to:
Quote:
A Tip for The GOP: Look Away
By Kathleen Parker, Washington Post, August 5, 2009)

Southern writer Walker Percy liked to poke fun at Ohioans in his novels, just to even things out a bit.

"Usually Mississippians and Georgians are getting it from everybody, and Alabamians," he once explained to an interviewer. "So, what's wrong with making smart-aleck remarks about Ohio? Nobody puts Ohio down. Why shouldn't I put Ohio down?"

Percy, the genial genius, laughed at his own remark.

Now, apparently, it's the Buckeye State's turn to poke back. In a fusillade of pique, Ohio Sen. George Voinovich charged that Southerners are what's wrong with the Republican Party.

"We got too many Jim DeMints and Tom Coburns," he told an interviewer with the Columbus Dispatch, referring to GOP senators from South Carolina and Oklahoma. "It's the Southerners. They get on TV and go 'errrr, errrrr.' People hear them and say, 'These people, they're Southerners. The party's being taken over by Southerners. What the hell they got to do with Ohio?' "

Down South, people are trying to figure out what "errrr, errrrr" means. Jack Bass, author of eight books about social and political change in the South, speculated in an e-mail that Voinovich really meant grrrr, grrrrr, as in "growling canines whose bark scares more than do Obama's purrs, especially with the Dow at a nine-month high."

Whatever Voinovich's sound effects were intended to convey, his meaning was clear enough: Those ignorant, right-wing, Bible-thumping rednecks are ruining the party.

Alas, Voinovich was not entirely wrong.

Not all Southern Republicans are wing nuts. Nor does the GOP have a monopoly on ignorance or racism. And, the South, for all its sins, is also lush with beauty, grace and mystery. Nevertheless, it is true that the GOP is fast becoming regionalized below the Mason-Dixon line and increasingly associated with some of the South's worst ideas.

It is not helpful (or surprising) that "birthers" -- conspiracy theorists who have convinced themselves that Barack Obama is not a native son -- have assumed kudzu qualities among Republicans in the South. In a poll commissioned by the liberal blog Daily Kos, participants were asked: "Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?"

Hefty majorities in the Northeast, the Midwest and the West believe Obama was born in the United States. But in the land of cotton, where old times are not by God forgotten, only 47 percent believe Obama was born in America and 30 percent aren't sure.

Southern Republicans, it seems, have seceded from sanity.

Though Voinovich's views may be shared by others in the party, it's a tad late -- not to mention ungrateful -- to indict the South. Republicans have been harvesting Southern votes for decades from seeds strategically planted during the civil rights era. When Lyndon B. Johnson predicted in 1965 that the Voting Rights Act meant the South would go Republican for the next 50 years, he wasn't just whistling Dixie.

A telling anecdote recounted by Pat Buchanan to New Yorker writer George Packer last year captures the dark spirit that still hovers around the GOP. In 1966 Buchanan and Richard Nixon were at the Wade Hampton Hotel in Columbia, S.C., where Nixon worked a crowd into a frenzy: "Buchanan recalls that the room was full of sweat, cigar smoke, and rage; the rhetoric, which was about patriotism and law and order, 'burned the paint off the walls.' As they left the hotel, Nixon said, 'This is the future of this Party, right here in the South.' "

That same rage was on display again in the fall of 2008, but this time the frenzy was stimulated by a pretty gal with a mocking little wink. Sarah Palin may not have realized what she was doing, but Southerners weaned on Harper Lee heard the dog whistle.

The curious Republican campaign of 2008 may have galvanized a conservative Southern base -- including many who were mostly concerned with the direction Democrats would take the country -- but it also repelled others who simply bolted and ran the other way. Whatever legitimate concerns the GOP may historically have represented were suddenly overshadowed by a sense of a resurgent Old South and all the attendant pathologies of festering hate and fear.

What the GOP is experiencing now, one hopes, are the death throes of that 50-year spell that Johnson foretold. But before the party of the Great Emancipator can rise again, Republicans will have to face their inner Voinovich and drive a stake through the heart of old Dixie.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 10:39 am
@DontTreadOnMe,
People who owned slaves were not Americans until the United States of America was established when all 13 states adopted the Constitution of the United States of America March 4, 1789. Therefore, Americans did not own slaves until March 4, 1789. But some north americans owned slaves prior to March 4, 1789. All Americans who owned slaves prior to December 6, 1865, stopped owning slaves December 6, 1865.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 11:24 am
@cicerone imposter,
It is not my Social Security expense or benefits I'm concerned about. I am concerned about the Social Security pyramid club fraud my grandchildren will have to suffer if the Social Security pyramid club is not terminated before they start earning their livings. My the Social Security pyramid club benefits, which I have been contributing to their future college expenses, are and will be insufficient for saving my grandchildren from suffering from the Social Security pyramid club fraud.

I RECOMMEND STARTING NOW:
Social security deduction rates shall not increase, AND Individuals shall be permitted to privately invest an increasing percentage of their social security deductions in 20 year USA treasury bonds. I recommend the rate at which that percentage increases to a maximum of 100% be 2.5% each year over 40 years. I further recommend, starting now, that Social Security income amounts shall be 96.6% of their previous year's income amount, such that in 20 years, payment amounts will have decreased (100% x 0..966^20 = 100% x 0.500) = 50%.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 11:29 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:
People who owned slaves were not Americans until the United States of America was established

I often have to wonder about the world you live in ican.

People that live in America are Americans. Before the establishment of the USofA, America existed and the people living there were referred to as Americans. They may have been British subjects but they were still Americans.

Thomas Paine refers to "Americans" in Common Sense in 1776.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 11:34 am
@parados,
Isn't it interesting how MACs-conservatives tried to deny that Obama was not an American citizen even though born in the US, then turn around and claim those living in America were not Americans who owned slaves.

They really know how to convolute facts to fit their own screwed up brains.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:09 pm
@blatham,
Southern Democrats were the racist supporters of slavery and, subsequently, racist supporters of the rotten principle of "separate but equal." Southern Republicans were in the minority then. They opposed slavery and the rotten principle, "separate but equal." The number of southern Republicans has increased substantially since then.

A majority of modern Republicans believe: "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

What the hell do modern Democrats believe? Those modern Democrats that believe in Barach Obama do not believe: "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:12 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, You know not what you believe about equal rights and the pursuit of happiness. Why are MACs-conservatives against marriage for gays and lesbians?

They're just partially equal?
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:12 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

It probably won't matter to those who think anybody who owned slaves at any time under any circumstances are disqualified to be admired or appreciated in history.


<sighhhh...> more cut and paste over not only what i did not say, but something i even said i had no interest in.

you can't cure everything with this cut and paste jazz.

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:16 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Before the establishment of the USofA, America existed and the people living there were referred to as Americans. They may have been British subjects but they were still Americans.

~~~~ !????! ~~~~
~~~~ (O|O) ~~~~
.~~~~ ( O ) ~~~~.

Your silly post is duly noted!
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:20 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

People who owned slaves were not Americans until the United States of America was established when all 13 states adopted the Constitution of the United States of America March 4, 1789. Therefore, Americans did not own slaves until March 4, 1789. But some north americans owned slaves prior to March 4, 1789. All Americans who owned slaves prior to December 6, 1865, stopped owning slaves December 6, 1865.


wrong. born into and/or adopt a domicile on the american continent prior to 1776? you are american.

own slaves? you are a slave owner.

do both and you are an american slave owner.

DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:24 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:


Thomas Paine refers to "Americans" in Common Sense in 1776.


oh, the conservatives don't like him anymore, parados. he went on to later explain that religion is kinda bullshit and should not be let within a mile of american or any other government.

i seem to recall that this great American was denied a church burial. not that he would have necessarily wanted to hang around with a bunch of cotton mather wannabes for all eternity, anyway... Laughing
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:25 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Southern Democrats were the racist supporters of slavery and, subsequently, racist supporters of the rotten principle of "separate but equal." Southern Republicans were in the minority then.


there were no republicans in 1776.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:29 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Southern Democrats were the racist supporters of slavery and, subsequently, racist supporters of the rotten principle of "separate but equal." Southern Republicans were in the minority then.


there were no republicans in 1776.


Gently pointing out that even cut and paste is preferable to assuming that Ican is referring to 1776 here.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 12:45 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Southern Democrats were the racist supporters of slavery and, subsequently, racist supporters of the rotten principle of "separate but equal." Southern Republicans were in the minority then.


there were no republicans in 1776.


Gently pointing out that even cut and paste is preferable to assuming that Ican is referring to 1776 here.


why wouldn't he be, foxy? that is the year he has been pushing at me since this little chapter began.

i really don't get why it is so hard for ican to except the bad as well as the good about american history and move on.
 

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