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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 10:28 am
I am still intrigued by "Robin of Berkeley" who writes about her recent conversion from liberalism to conservatism. The ideas of new converts are truly astounding:

Quote:
Are Men Obsolete?
(By Robin of Berkeley, American Thinker, July 22, 2009)

When I snapped out of my left wing trance last year, I was lost in space. I had no conservative friends and was clueless about web sites and books.

I had heard something vaguely about Talk Radio. So I scanned my AM dial and found Michael Savage. (It took several months, and a chat with a rather bemused new friend, before I even realized there were other hosts as well.)

Being a lifelong liberal, I'd never heard anybody like Savage in my life. He yelled; he called people "vermin." He was unbridled masculinity, not the touchy feeling kind I was used to. And he totally accepted himself: his moods, passion, temper.

But what shocked me the most was his saying that men have become "feminized." I'd never been so offended. "Well, what's wrong with men being more feminine?" I shouted back at my radio. "Is there something wrong with femininity?" Men being way more in touch with their yin and less with their yang sounded good to me.

I hadn't exactly been a big fan of masculinity. Like any good feminist, ranting and raving about men were two of my favorite pastimes. Men frightened me. Testosterone fueled types like Michael Savage scared the bejeezus out of me. I had good reasons, of course, given episodes of harassment and abuse.

I couldn't tune Savage out because he was the only game in town (or so I thought). Also, he was spot on about Obama, and his show was a rich tapestry of politics, philosophy, history, and religion. So I stayed glued.

What a difference a year makes. Now I see Savage as a seer warning us of the dangers we were in for if men went the way of the dinosaur. I had thought taming men's animal nature was a win-win for everybody. Now I realize it was tampering with Mother Nature.

And I have to wonder whether the feminization of men has been an unforeseen result of liberalism or some twisted scheme hatched by the left. In some ways, it feels paranoid to even go there, like I've watched too many sci fi flicks. But at the same time if Professor Bill Ayers and his ilk could plot infiltrating the schools with all things Marxist, why stop there? Why not engineer a designer man who would go along with the liberal flow?

Step one: loosen men up through psychotherapy where they can get in touch with their inner child. Have them exchange their arms for drums that they can pound in the woods with groups of brothers. Teach them to reject logic and lead with their emotions.

Idolize gayness, because after all, aren't gay men just XY versions of the superior women? Degrade anything masculine. Marginalize and vilify the macho types like Savage, by banning him from the U.K.

Hike up the costs of SUV's and trucks, and squeeze men into deracinated cars like the Prius (notice how prissy even the name sounds?) Even better, herd them to work in buses and trains to save the planet (and control them).

Ask the question, as Maureen Dowd did in her bestselling book, "Are Men Necessary?" Answer in the negative by glorifying single mothers and supporting sperm donors. Why bother with a bossy husband when the government can put moms on the dole? And anyway, with gayness being the next big craze, there may be fewer straight men out there.

On the horizon: making the notion of gender arbitrary anyway. Allow people free and easy access to sex change operations (I'll bet good money they will be readily available under ObamaCare.)

Allow children to choose their own sex. (By the way, the fad is already in vogue and called "gender neutrality." Parents don't inform their child of his or her or its gender and let the little mutant choose one.)

Even better, have your child be Bob one day and Becky the next, another hot trend called "gender fluid." It's already happening at a few San Francisco Bay Area schools, where bathrooms are unisex and children get to alter their gender as the mood strikes them.

The piece de resistance of feminization: wreck the economy. If you want to cripple men, rob them of their life spring: their ability to provide for their family. No worries: the government will step in as a worthy substitute.

And the final stroke of genius: disempower the true symbols of masculinity: the military, police, and intelligence officers. Investigate them, sue them, protest them with riots in the street. Make them feel intimidated about doing their jobs. Require them to attend plenty of sensitivity workshops.

So, after decades of my going along like an automaton with the liberal program, I finally got it. As people like Savage have warned us about for years, tampering with gender is a disaster. And not just for men.

Because society shrinks when we are forced to give up who we are, and we become shells of ourselves when we're robbed of our birthright: dignity, freedom, individuality. We become cloned people, with this part and that part, never discovering who we are.

We become what the Tibetans call "hungry ghosts:" tormented beings looking all over for happiness but never finding it because we've forgotten the only place it lives -- in our spirit, which is connected to forces Beyond. We lose forever the knowledge of our true nature that we first glimpsed when we were knee high.

Because the fact is that humans cannot, should not, fool with Mo Nature, shouldn't take nature in our hands and play God. To do so can unleash madness and danger as we know from every horror movie.

Because while we've been engineering a kinder, gentler man, much of the world has been doing the opposite. Countries like Iran and North Korea have been building nuclear weapons and poisoning their young men with hatred of the U.S. They have been making their men stronger, meaner, and better armed.

Liberals: be honest with yourselves. In the end, if the worst case scenario happens (God forbid) and we are attacked, who will you run to? Will you scream out for the Green Czar?

No; all of us, liberals and leftists, conservatives and feminists, we will go where we have always gone from the beginning of time; we will search desperately for the big, strong men to protect us, the ones who have always had the guts, the courage, and yes the cojones, to put their lives and limbs on the line.

The question is: by then, how many will be left?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 10:30 am
@wandeljw,
The only thing we can't deny Robin of Berkeley is that she's an "American Thinker." Doesn't say anything about her bull **** thinking. She belongs on the laffer curve.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 10:32 am
@wandeljw,
Whoever "she" is, do you have any serious quarrel with her general perspectives? Or any particular one?
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 10:35 am
@Foxfyre,
From Robin's article:
Quote:
Liberals: be honest with yourselves. In the end, if the worst case scenario happens (God forbid) and we are attacked, who will you run to? Will you scream out for the Green Czar?


That's right up Foxie's alley; stuff they like to parrot, but can't ever prove.

"If we are ever attacked..." is just more MAC-conservative fear mongering. ROFL
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 11:08 am
Interesting poll just out:

Quote:
Poll: Palin More Popular Than Pelosi Among Voters
Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:28 PM
By: Steven Thomma, McClatchy Newspapers

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is more popular than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, according to a new bipartisan poll released Wednesday.

The Battleground Poll conducted for George Washington University found 42 percent of likely voters have a favorable opinion of Palin, the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee who stepped down last week as governor of Alaska. The survey found 47 percent had an unfavorable opinion of Palin.

While Palin trailed both President Barack Obama (61 favorable/36 unfavorable) and Vice President Joe Biden (48/38) she easily outpolled Pelosi, the highest ranking elected woman in the country.

The survey found 32 percent of likely voters had a favorable impression of Pelosi, a Democrat from San Francisco, and 51 percent had an unfavorable impression.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., trailed them all in personal popularity, with 15 percent holding a favorable impression and 31 percent having an unfavorable impression.
© 2009 McClatchy-Tribune News Service. Reprinted Via Newscom


This is probably more accurate than a current Newsmax straw poll in progress in which tens of thousands have responded with Palin showing major approval and support--high 60s and 70s and higher. But the demographic group targeted by Newsmax is also much more partisan and therefore almost certainly more biased than the group targeted by Battleground.

I hope Palin does not decide to run if her unfavorables continue to be high, especially if they exceed her favorables. The GOP needs a solid candidate with broad based support in 2012 in order to unseat the current occupant of the White House.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 11:14 am
@Foxfyre,
This is too funny! They want to compare the popularity of Palin and Pelosi. Pelosi will never run for president. Why not compare Palin to joe the plumber? Palin is out of her league to be running, but the conservatives act as if she's the next best thing to Reagan.

"I'll get the answer and get back to ya."
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 11:23 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Pelosi will never run for president.

Thats a relief.
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 11:23 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Whoever "she" is, do you have any serious quarrel with her general perspectives? Or any particular one?


What bothers me about "Robin" is that the conversion to conservatism has caused her to embrace simplistic ideas. Her "life history" mentions postgraduate education and professional accomplishment in psychology. Suddenly, she decides that the simple "logic" of talk radio hosts is more instructive. Her new attitude includes believing that liberalism somehow "feminizes" men.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 11:29 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Whoever "she" is, do you have any serious quarrel with her general perspectives? Or any particular one?


What bothers me about "Robin" is that the conversion to conservatism has caused her to embrace simplistic ideas. Her "life history" mentions postgraduate education and professional accomplishment in psychology. Suddenly, she decides that the simple "logic" of talk radio hosts is more instructive. Her new attitude includes believing that liberalism somehow "feminizes" men.


What do you consider a 'simplistic idea'? Give me an example.

Do you understand how she means that when she says that 'liberalism feminizes men'? Anything specific about that comment with which you disagree?
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 11:34 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Whoever "she" is, do you have any serious quarrel with her general perspectives? Or any particular one?


What bothers me about "Robin" is that the conversion to conservatism has caused her to embrace simplistic ideas. Her "life history" mentions postgraduate education and professional accomplishment in psychology. Suddenly, she decides that the simple "logic" of talk radio hosts is more instructive. Her new attitude includes believing that liberalism somehow "feminizes" men.


What do you consider a 'simplistic idea'? Give me an example.

Do you understand how she means that when she says that 'liberalism feminizes men'? Anything specific about that comment with which you disagree?


I disagree that Liberalism feminizes men in any way. Attitudes such as this are based on a rather childish understanding of 'manhood.'

I mean, stuff like this:

Quote:

And the final stroke of genius: disempower the true symbols of masculinity: the military, police, and intelligence officers. Investigate them, sue them, protest them with riots in the street. Make them feel intimidated about doing their jobs. Require them to attend plenty of sensitivity workshops.


It's ridiculous to claim that 'military, police and intelligence officers' are the 'true symbols' of masculinity. They are symbols of Authority and the State, not gender symbols. She is conflating several concepts here, which is sloppy and doesn't provide any real insight whatsoever.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 11:37 am
@okie,
That's not a "relief," it's a no-brainer - except for people like you!
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 11:53 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Whoever "she" is, do you have any serious quarrel with her general perspectives? Or any particular one?


What bothers me about "Robin" is that the conversion to conservatism has caused her to embrace simplistic ideas. Her "life history" mentions postgraduate education and professional accomplishment in psychology. Suddenly, she decides that the simple "logic" of talk radio hosts is more instructive. Her new attitude includes believing that liberalism somehow "feminizes" men.


What do you consider a 'simplistic idea'? Give me an example.

Do you understand how she means that when she says that 'liberalism feminizes men'? Anything specific about that comment with which you disagree?


Here are some excerpts from Robin's article that indicate simplistic thinking:

Quote:
Step one: loosen men up through psychotherapy where they can get in touch with their inner child. Have them exchange their arms for drums that they can pound in the woods with groups of brothers. Teach them to reject logic and lead with their emotions.


There is nothing wrong with men learning to get in touch with their emotions. A friend of mine worked for many years as a Treasury agent (an extremely dangerous job, requiring him to carry a gun at all times). Part of his training included learning the value of "feminine intuition". He claims that this had saved his life several times.

Quote:
Hike up the costs of SUV's and trucks, and squeeze men into deracinated cars like the Prius (notice how prissy even the name sounds?) Even better, herd them to work in buses and trains to save the planet (and control them).


How ridiculous! I feel sorry for Robin that conservatism makes her believe this. I have greater respect for conservatives and would not imagine that the average conservative would endorse the idea that smaller cars are leading to this.

Quote:
Allow people free and easy access to sex change operations (I'll bet good money they will be readily available under ObamaCare.)


Again, a comment like this makes me feel sorry for Robin. Has the conversion to conservatism caused her to become stupid? I honestly believe that some conservatives are offended by Robin.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 12:21 pm
@wandeljw,
Okay, all valid observations and I don't know that you are inaccurate in your perceptions.

But one thing I have noticed about liberals is that so many are unable to separate 'statement of fact' from 'exaggeration for effect' or the technique of using absurdity to illustrate absurdity. I honestly think at least one reason so many liberals despise the Rush Limbaughs or Glenn Becks or Ann Coulters of the world, or others like them, is because the liberal so often cannot identify or admit the larger truth intended within the intentionally outrageous or exaggerated statement. So they focus on and condemn the statement as if it was intended to be the whole sum of what the writer or speaker intended.

You see Robin's statements as 'simplistic'. I see such statements as 'nuanced' in the interest of saying bigger truths with fewer words. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I'm just pointing out the difference in perception.

There are a whole lot of us who would agree with Robin's basic premise that many, maybe most, liberals don't enourage guys to be guys. The whole bullhorns on the hood, gunrack across the back, chauvenistic, testosterone laced macho image is seen as ignorant or stupid or crude. Fathers are downplayed as important to competently bring up boys. Guns are forbidden as toys. Little boys are drugged into submission if they behave like little boys. I could go on and on.....but I think you get my drift.

I think such efforts to re-engineer basic social norms has created a society that is more frustrated, less happy, less respectful, and less pleasant.

Robin has decided (as I did long ago) that she will allow her men to be men. When there is danger, she wants somebody who has been taught that there is a role for strength and even violence and who will naturally employ that rather than have to depend on some politically correct submissive creature with a feminine side. She will allow men to exhibit their natural instincts to be hunters, gatherers, and protectors and appreciate that God made people male and female for more reasons than procreation.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 12:25 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxie wrote (I didn't read any further than this statement):
Quote:

But one thing I have noticed about liberals is that so many are unable to separate 'statement of fact' from 'exaggeration for effect'


When we ask conservatives-MACs to provide evidence for their opinion, none is forthcoming. Both okie and Foxie are good examples of providing personal opinions without backing them up with credible sources. Foxie: you don't understand what I'm saying. okie: when you ask for black, I'll always provide you with orange.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 12:30 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
I think such efforts to re-engineer basic social norms has created a society that is more frustrated, less happy, less respectful, and less pleasant.


So what do you consider to be the "basic socila norms" here? Women stay at home, look at the children, laundry, pots and kettles, collect fruits, while men make the fire, shoot animals and their neighbours and enjoy life in general? Wink
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 12:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Not at all. Nor have I ever suggested such a thing. But there is something to be said for the man to be head of the household and responsible for its security, safety, and material success, and for the woman to be the heart of the household and responsible for its transquility, comfort, peace, and being a place of refuge. Neither is more important than the other, neither less necessary, and neither presumes that each won't at times help each other and/or each assume the duties of the other.

I think men are wired for such a role and are most at peace in such a role. Same for the women. I do not suggest there are never exceptions or anomalies. I do not assume that all people are competent to carry out any particular role. But overall, I think it is wrong to denigrate people who are simply assuming a natural role in the scheme of things or suggest that they are somehow lacking because that is where they are most comfortable.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 12:44 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxie is still living in the middle ages; there are many women heads of households whose spouse stays at home and does the housework and watches the children, while they bring home the "bread."
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 12:54 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
When there is danger, she wants somebody who has been taught that there is a role for strength and even violence and who will naturally employ that rather than have to depend on some politically correct submissive creature with a feminine side.

So remove Obama from the presidency, NOW!

He is stealing, and is promising to steal, the property of those who lawfully earned it, and give it to people who have not lawfully earned it. He is promising to deny people the right to buy their own private medical insurance, and require them to pay taxes for federal medical insurance instead. He is promising to deny people the right to self-insure themselves for medical care. and require them to pay taxes for federal medical insurance instead.

) :-( (

...

( ;- ) )
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 01:23 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Are Men Obsolete?
(By Robin of Berkeley, American Thinker, July 22, 2009)
Like any good feminist, ranting and raving about men were two of my favorite pastimes.


I have no idea who this Robin person is, but s/he/it has never been a feminist.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2009 01:28 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
The whole bullhorns on the hood, gunrack across the back, chauvenistic, testosterone laced macho image is seen as ignorant or stupid or crude.


Those things are ignorant and crude and have nothing to do with what it means to be a man; and, as I have years of experience dealing directly with this subject, I think I have plenty of authority to say that conclusively Laughing

What you are describing are the attitudes and persona of those who are desperate to prove to others how 'manly' they are; and it is generally a symbol of weakness. The truly strong do not boast about their strength, the truly intelligent do not have to boast about their intelligence; and the truly 'manly' need show almost no outward symbols of this, for it instead pervades their actions and entire being and is obvious, without the need for boasting or 'macho' behavior.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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