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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Forums: Politics, Conservatism, Truthiness, Conservatives, American Conservatism
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cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Jul, 2009 10:35 pm
@parados,
ican, Are you there? LOL
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 07:56 am
Gleaned from my morning mail

Quote:
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before but had once failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that Obama theory of spreading the wealth around was a noble plan and if so many people were not so rich, there would be far fewer who would be so poor.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan. Currently 10% of the class is making below average grades, 20% are making A's, all others are making B's and C's. From now on all grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade."

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.

The students who studied hard were upset -and the students who studied little were happy. Those in the middle thought the system was working.

As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who had studied hard couldn't see any benefit to working so hard and they studied less.

The second test average was a D!

No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All grades were failing. The class agreed they didn't like the experiment and asked to return to the former grading system based on merit instead of averages.

Then the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great ~ but when government takes all the reward away no one will try ~ or even have a desire ~ to succeed.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:02 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Gleaned from my morning mail
... ...


You posted this already - which is quite easy since that "email" is out (in this form) longer than one year, in different versions even earlier Wink
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:06 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
"OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan. Currently 10% of the class is making below average grades, 20% are making A's, all others are making B's and C's. From now on all grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade."

Do you agree with the professor of the story that this is an accurate model of Obama's economic plans? Do you agree with his implied assertion that Obama's economic policies will redistribute all income such that everyone makes exactly the same?
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:06 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes, it is a bit different than former versions that have been circulated. But still on target don't you think? Do you mind that I posted it? Do you disagree with it? Do you think the lesson being taught is wrong? How would you have written it?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:06 am
@Thomas,
He didn't say that Obama's economic polices will redistribute all income such that everyone makes exactly the same. He was teaching a lesson that you don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer.

How did you miss that?
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:08 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Ok.. so you claim you pay taxes.

But if Obama hasn't taken any of your property then you must think income is not property. That would invalidate most of your "constitutional" argument ican.

This is the really frustrating thing about ican. He has never really explained how Obama is violating everybody's rights (well, everybody but ican and his family, apparently). And when you ask him to explain, he simply repeats his mantra that Obama "is leading the transfer of private property from those persons and from those organizations who have lawfully earned it to those persons and organizations who have not lawfully earned it." That's all well and good, but that doesnt' really reveal the mechanism for this transfer of private property. How does it all happen? Verily it is a deep and abiding mystery.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Goody, Walter! Does any version of this chain letter contain the name and the university of the professor so I congratulate him on his stellar insight into Obama's economics?
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:11 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre's morning e-mail wrote:
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan.

No he won't.

Foxfyre's morning e-mail wrote:
Currently 10% of the class is making below average grades, 20% are making A's, all others are making B's and C's. From now on all grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade."

See, I was right.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:14 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Goody, Walter! Does any version of this chain letter contain the name and the university of the professor so I congratulate him on his stellar insight into Obama's economics?


Why don't you provide us with a better teaching of how 'spreading the wealth around' as Obama explained it will benefit us all?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:15 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Foxfyre's morning e-mail wrote:
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan.

No he won't.

Foxfyre's morning e-mail wrote:
Currently 10% of the class is making below average grades, 20% are making A's, all others are making B's and C's. From now on all grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade."

See, I was right.


Right about what?
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:17 am
@Foxfyre,
If that was the lesson he wanted to teach, the experiment he set up didn't match the lesson. The experiment redistributed all grade "income". It thus doesn't say anything relevant about what happens when you only redistribute some income -- which is what liberal politicians in America are proposing, and what Social Democrats elsewhere in the world are doing.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:17 am
@Foxfyre,
I was right that the "professor" in your e-mail didn't conduct an experiment on Obama's "plan" (whatever plan that might have been). Do you disagree?
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:19 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

I was right that the "professor" in your e-mail didn't conduct an experiment on Obama's "plan" (whatever plan that might have been). Do you disagree?


What do you think Obama's 'plan' was other than to make the rich a little less rich so that the poorer would be less poor? "Spread the wealth around." Did he have another plan?
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:24 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:

I was right that the "professor" in your e-mail didn't conduct an experiment on Obama's "plan" (whatever plan that might have been). Do you disagree?


What do you think Obama's 'plan' was other than to make the rich a little less rich so that the poorer would be less poor? "Spread the wealth around." Did he have another plan?

You answer my question first.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:25 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

If that was the lesson he wanted to teach, the experiment he set up didn't match the lesson. The experiment redistributed all grade "income". It thus doesn't say anything relevant about what happens when you only redistribute some income -- which is what liberal politicians in America are proposing, and what Social Democrats elsewhere in the world are doing.


But the initial idea, apparent to the students anyway, was that the only 'prosperity' that was redistributed was transferring from the very 'rich' to the very 'poor'. Everybody, other than the rich, was okay with that. The lesson, however, was that if you take away the incentive to achieve prosperity, the lack of effort to do so will eventually hurt everybody.

Do you disagree?
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:26 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:

I was right that the "professor" in your e-mail didn't conduct an experiment on Obama's "plan" (whatever plan that might have been). Do you disagree?


What do you think Obama's 'plan' was other than to make the rich a little less rich so that the poorer would be less poor? "Spread the wealth around." Did he have another plan?

You answer my question first.


I did. Obama's plan was to take from the more rich and distribute to the less rich. The professor's experiment quite adequately demonstrated why that is a bad idea.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:28 am
@Foxfyre,
No, the "professor's" experiment showed what might happen if all income is redistributed. As far as I know, Obama has not advocated anything even remotely resembling this experiment. Do you have some information that suggests otherwise?
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:33 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

No, the "professor's" experiment showed what might happen if all income is redistributed. As far as I know, Obama has not advocated anything even remotely resembling this experiment. Do you have some information that suggests otherwise?


I didn't see it that way. I saw the 70% in the middle as initially having little or no difference in results in the experiment. The only ones affected were the A students and below average. It was the behavior of the students reacting to the probable benefits of their own efforts that eventually affected everybody, which I saw as the teaching to be learned.

What do you think Obama is advocating by 'spreading the wealth around'? What is his plan that the professor missed?
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:49 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
I didn't see it that way.

Of course not.

Foxfyre wrote:
I saw the 70% in the middle as initially having little or no difference in results in the experiment. The only ones affected were the A students and below average. It was the behavior of the students reacting to the probable benefits of their own efforts that eventually affected everybody, which I saw as the teaching to be learned.

Here again is what your e-mail said:

Quote:
From now on all grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade.

That's not averaging some of the grades or taking a few points from the best students and redistributing them to the worst students, that's averaging all of the grades. I, at least, took the e-mail at its word. I'm not sure why you don't.

Foxfyre wrote:
What do you think Obama is advocating by 'spreading the wealth around'? What is his plan that the professor missed?

I don't know what "plan" you're talking about. Indeed, that is one of the most frustrating things about Obama these days -- he doesn't really seem to have much of a plan at all. If you're talking about one of the many plans put forward with regard to health care reform, which advocates increasing marginal rates on the top 10 or 5 percent of income earners in order to fund health care for the lowest 20 percent, then I'd probably be in favor of that (I would, of course, need to know more about the details before I could commit to any plan). But then that's a far cry from the analogy posed by the "professor" in your e-mail, who proposed averaging all grades/incomes rather than redistributing a few points from the top 10 percent of test takers to the bottom 20 percent.
 

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