AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@Lightwizard,

Okay, then none of our leaders should not be held to anything they say? There are too many nuances in a word or term or phrase for anything to be taken seriously? Sorry I don't buy that. When Bill Clinton looks into the camera and says "I did not have sexual relations with that woman. . . . " the American people should be able to take that at face value. He shouldn't be let off the hook on the truth meter by him later defining 'sexual relations' differently from the way most of the world defines that. When George H.W. Bush looks into the camera and pledges "No new taxes", we should be able to accept that as a promise that we can vote for, and he shouldn't be let off the hook by a subsequent ". . . unless this or this or that is the situation. . . ."

"Mission accomplished" was not a promise but rather was an opinion, one that proved to be very wrong. But it was a different thing.

MACs would like to start putting people into office who have strength of conviction of the value of modern conservative principles and who have the temperament of a public servant instead of that of a glory, power, or wealth seeker. Those who dishonestly or naively make grandiose pronouncements, pledges, or promises or self-serving statements that they have no hope or intention of fulfilling should be consistently exposed for the frauds that they are and should be voted out of office or never elected in the first place.

4 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxie, Is that the "only" case where you feel word nuance has meaning? LOL

How about, "we do not torture?" Or, "when we wiretap, we get court approval."

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@Foxfyre,

Mission Accomplished was an opinion? It wasn't essentially a pledge or promise that the war was officially over? Laughing

You're sometimes hilarious. Why would he regret that banner just last year? Whose opinion was is, anyway? The banner seamstress?

There is no semantic ambiguity to "I did not have sex with that woman," or "No new taxes."

Your prejudice is that Obama and his administration with the indefinable effect of several economic pressures they have little direct control over will not be able to reach that goal. So you resort to comparing it to a blow job which only really affected three people, two pleasurably. I guess Obama planning to cut the deficit in half is his opinion. Or did he also say he would go on the rack if it couldn't be done?

You have quickly forgotten that George H. W. Bush not only fudged on the "no new taxes," he proceeded to run the economy into the ground.

Conservatives are all about money -- those I have been close to in business and socially have dollar signs in their eyes at all times. Their extravagances are embarrassing, especially when your hear them whine after their investments go South.

How do you know there's no hope or intent on cutting the deficit. Are you bugging the White House?

This is also only your opinion, and quite frankly after everything you've posted on these threads, I don't have much confidence in your opinion.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxie wrote:

Quote:

"Mission accomplished" was not a promise but rather was an opinion, one that proved to be very wrong.

Are you sure you're a teacher? That's not an opinion, but a statement. It was not factual in any sense of the word. A statement is usually based on fact, and we all now agree it was wrong.

1 Reply

@Woiyo9,

Where do you come up with a "3 point swing?" I'm assuming that's percentage points, not a golf score. Certainly couldn't be a bowling score.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

A statement is usually based on fact, and we all now agree it was wrong.

The statement was correct because the primary mission was accomplished... then the left pulled
their support and everything went to hell in a hand basket until McCain's surge started up.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

waterboy, Exactly which mission was accomplished?

Quote:

"Mission Accomplished," 5 Years Later
Since Bush Declared End To Major Combat Operations In Iraq, Nearly 4,000 U.S. Troops Have Died

To the assembled audience and the world, Mr. Bush said, "Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country."

May 1, 2008

You're just another one of those dummies who misrepresents most things conservative Bush has done, and get caught with your lies. Unfortunately, for all of you, there are multitudes of records on the internet to refute most of what "you people" say.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cice, you are one of the most ignorant morons I have seen.

All attempts to educate and enlighten you have be futile, so I will no longer try to help you.

Enjoy the rest of your pitiful life under that rock that hides you.

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@Lightwizard,

Yes it is my opinion. Just as your ad hominem rebuttal is your opinion.

Your ad hominem opinion is noted.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Resorting to straw man and ad hominems just shows how ignorant you are.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Your ad hominem opinion is noted.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Yeah, and take it to bed with you.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Piss off little man, piss off!

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Who is the "ad hominem" attack supposedly directed at? Where have I attacked anyone's personal character or appealed to their emotions? You people use that term so cavalierly, it's become meaningless.

3 Replies

@Lightwizard,

"you people" = cice

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@Lightwizard,

Lightwizard wrote:

Who is the "ad hominem" attack supposedly directed at? Where have I attacked anyone's personal character or appealed to their emotions? You people use that term so cavalierly, it's become meaningless.

Doesn't matter who the 'ad hominem' attack is supposedly directed at, though 'you' makes it pretty specific.

Here's just some of the ad hominem and/or straw men arguments you built into your post:

"Your prejudice is that Obama and his administration with the indefinable effect of several economic pressures they have little direct control over will not be able to reach that goal."

"You have quickly forgotten . . ."

"Conservatives are all about money. . ."

"So you resort to comparing it to a blow job . . ."

All of which refer to character or appeal to emotion and all of which were in addition to or non responsive to what a 'promise' or 'pledge' means or should mean which is what I was addressing.

"Mission accomplished" was a statement of fact, however incorrect it might have been, but was certainly not a pledge or promise to do anything further. It was a totally different thing than what President Obama clearly pledged, without any qualifications, to do. The fact that he went on to explain the criteria that would be involved in that in no way altered or modified the pledge.

For instance, when Obama says that the economy is improving, that may or may not be the case, but it is not the same thing as a promise to improve the economy. When he says that "(this program) or (that policy) will create or save jobs", THAT can be likened to something of an intent, but it also is not the same thing as a pledge or promise.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Sounds like hydro-cephalic man is upset and striking out at others.

Was Bush just expressing an opinion when he said: "bring them on?" He said that when the militants in Iraq first began attacking us.

Bush later quibbled about that statement.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

None of those are ad hominem attacks. I'd invest in a dictionary if I were you.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Come on, Advocate, you know damn well you're misinterpreting what Bush said! You're hopeless.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Okay, then none of our leaders should not be held to anything they say? There are too many nuances in a word or term or phrase for anything to be taken seriously? Sorry I don't buy that. When Bill Clinton looks into the camera and says "I did not have sexual relations with that woman. . . . " the American people should be able to take that at face value. He shouldn't be let off the hook on the truth meter by him later defining 'sexual relations' differently from the way most of the world defines that. When George H.W. Bush looks into the camera and pledges "No new taxes", we should be able to accept that as a promise that we can vote for, and he shouldn't be let off the hook by a subsequent ". . . unless this or this or that is the situation. . . ."

Ah, I like this argument. Here, George W. Bush, on June 26, 2003:

Quote:

The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. I call on all nations to speak out against torture in all its forms and to make ending torture an essential part of their diplomacy.

What does your MAC ideology tell you in this case? Take what the President said at face value, prohibit, investigate and prosecute all acts of torture... or let him off the hook by a subsequent ". . . unless this or this or that is the situation. . . ."?

Inquiring minds want to know.

2 Replies

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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