AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

Diest TKO wrote:

She can't be bothered to keep track of all the things she says MACs are OE.

I just fail to understand how someone con reconcile those contradictions so easily.

"MACism stands for the rule of law, the protection against arbitrary use of power by the government, and state-run secret torture programs in violation of the Constitution which are necessary to defend the nation against terrorism."

Alright.

58% Oppose Further Investigation of U.S. Torture Allegations
Saturday, April 25, 2009

President Obama and Senate Democratic leaders are opposed to more investigations of how the Bush administration treated terrorism suspects, and 58% of U.S. voters agree with them. A number of congressional Democrats, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, are pushing for a wider probe.

Just 28% think the Obama administration should do further investigating of how suspected terrorists were questioned during the Bush years, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Thirteen percent (13%) are not sure.

While the Bush administration’s handling of terrorism suspects has been a highly charged political issue,

Democrats are evenly divided over whether further investigation is necessary. Seventy-seven percent (77%) of Republicans and 62% of voters not affiliated with either major party are against more investigating.

Fifty-eight percent (58%) of liberals believe more investigating is called for, but 78% of conservatives disagree.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/58_oppose_further_investigation_of_u_s_torture_allegations

Lesbian couple legally marries in Iowa ceremony
2 hrs 12 mins ago

DES MOINES, Iowa " A lesbian couple has apparently become the first same-sex couple to legally wed in Iowa since a court ruling took effect legalizing gay marriage.

Melisa Keeton and Shelley Wolfe were married in a ceremony on the Polk County administrative building in Des Moines just before 9 a.m.

The marriage came less than an hour after the state Supreme Court ruling took effect. The couple was allowed to bypass the state's three-day waiting period before licenses are considered valid.

Officials have reported same-sex couples applying for marriage licenses in several counties.

Iowa became the third state to allow gay marriage when the state Supreme Court ruled April 3 that a ban on same-sex marriage violated the Iowa Constitution.

Your opinion is noted Cyclop. And I am becoming more and more convinced that you and your alter ego are one and the same now. You know who I mean.

Ridiculous. In America the Law rules supreme, more so than any current administration. If people broke the law, it doesn't matter if they were in the outgoing government; they deserve to be investigated, charged and tried for doing so. Only in the minds of right-wingers, who are scared of being further discredited, does pursuing the Law become a bad thing.

Defending torture will sink an already depressed Republican party.

And with Obama setting the precedent, the window will be wide open for all kinds of nonsense in the future.

I know we are beyond this argument, but not everyone agrees that water boarding and sleep depravation are always considered 'torture.'

MACs stand for Constitutional law and equal protection under the law. The previous administration should not be held to any higher standard than any other administration and the current administration should not set a precedent that would literally hamstring our government from being able to carry out any of its authorized and funded Consitutional duties without threat of being investigated and prosecuted for it by a vengeful and vindictive subsequent administration.

Whatever actions Obama takes during his admin, reasonable as they might seem to the left, might be greatly offensive to the right. Be it guns, abortion, cap and trade, or any other issue that has America split, the potential is always there for one group to say the other group went too far and violated the Constitution. And a future rightwing admin might very well use the Obama precedent to prosecute members of his admin.

MACs stand for Constitutional law and equal protection under the law.

The prisoners of war held at Quantanamo did not and do not meet Article 4-2 conditions (b), (c), and (d). THEREFORE the Geneva Conventions DO NOT apply to the prisoners of war held at Quantanamo.

"Rule of law" is a great concept, but the shades of grey that come into play when people interpret the law differently is what will cause problems.

Foxfyre wrote:

Your opinion is noted Cyclop. And I am becoming more and more convinced that you and your alter ego are one and the same now. You know who I mean.

Why are you convinced of this? We clearly are not the same person and would gain nothing from having dual accounts.

Would you care to place a bet, Fox? I know I would. Get RG to tell you if our IP addresses come from the same location, hell, they come from opposite coasts of our country. But if you're so convinced, put your money (or your honor) where your mouth is. Otherwise, shut the **** up about it, because it's tiresome and insulting to read over and over.

Cycloptichorn

§ 2340A. Torture

(a) Offense." Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction." There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if"
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.
(c) Conspiracy." A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

Waterboarding
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Waterboarding in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge regime. Painting by a former prison inmate, Vann Nath, at the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum
Waterboarding is a form of torture[1][2] that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences drowning and is caused to believe they are about to die.[3] It is considered a form of torture by legal experts,[4][5] politicians, war veterans,[6][7] intelligence officials,[8] military judges,[9] and human rights organizations.[10][11] As early as the Spanish Inquisition it was used for interrogation purposes, to punish and intimidate, and to force confessions.[12]

Actually, many GOP members of congress have been charged with crimes - even in recent times. It's really funny woiyo doesn't know about them, but they are easy to find on a Google search.