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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 02:07 pm
@ican711nm,
Only the US government has the wherewithal to be spending that kind of printed money. You still haven't identified which section of the Constitution makes those spending "theft taxation." Congress has the power to tax; your saying they don't doesn't mean anything. If you think they don't have the power, try stop paying your taxes, and report it to the IRS. Good luck.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 02:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
~~ ~ !???! ~ ~~
~~~ (o|o) ~~~
~~~ (<>) ~~~


Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 03:31 pm
@ican711nm,
CI really does try, Ican, so for heavens sake, cut him some slack. Somebody so reasonable and lovable doesn't deserve question marks. He is proof positive that at least some liberals are capable of being focused and tolerant and astute in their observations.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 03:31 pm
@Foxfyre,
That's what people do when they don't have a good answer.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 03:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What, compliment you? Surely you jest. You're incredible CI and more people should certainly emulate you. I am awed by your unwavering grasp of the subject and your pithy way of boiling it down to the bare essentials. I wish all liberals were as kind and considerate. Thank you.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 04:01 pm
@Foxfyre,
Surely you jest; I have never looked for "compliments" on a2k. I'm a participant only because it provides me with "free" entertainment and some knowledge about many different subjects.

That you would even suggest such a ridiculous idea shows you have no perception about me or who I am.

I've had a very short professional career that's given me a very good like; I don't need any acknowledgments from chat rooms for what I've accomplished in my life.

During most of my life, many people have been very generous to me, and I try to do a little pay-back along the way.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 04:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
See? Such self-deprecating modesty becomes you CI. I am so happy that you are 'paying us back' as you describe it with your thoughtful and compassionate commentary. I know you are embarrassed at receiving such well deserved praise, but how can I see and not acknowledge such kindness and tolerance and thoughtfulness?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 04:26 pm
@Foxfyre,
It's all in your cock-eyed, confused, mind. I gave up modesty about a decade ago, but if I had known then what I know now, it would have been much sooner.

I only challenge people who seems to think their opinions are the only correct ones, or when I see facts twisted in ways that doesn't make any sense.

You're a good target for that!
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 04:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, my mind is certainly cock-eyed and confused because you are a wise man and if you say it is true, then it must be. So please forgive me and thank you for taking your time to correct me.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 04:32 pm
@Foxfyre,
The only "wisdom" I have is the ability to identify (subjectively) your ability to condescend, belittle and insult people. Many others on a2k have identified your contradictions and inconsistencies.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 04:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Thank you again CI. I am amazed at your abilities, subjective or otherwise.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 04:58 pm
@Foxfyre,
You're welcome, again and again...
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 11:25 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
~~ ~ !???! ~ ~~
~~~ (o|o) ~~~
~~~ (<>) ~~~


Clearly, your most cogent constitutional treatise to date, Ican.

I do hope Brandon reads this. He is in dire need of some schoolin' on the US legal system and you're just the guy to give it to him.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 05:33 am
I've been thinking about GeorgeOb1's post to me that the conservative point of view will not be received with open arms here on A2K and somebody like me, who is passionate. persistent, (and a prolific poster), will not be well received or treated kindly by many of those who do not share my views. And of course he is right about that. And I accept that my personality definitely rubs some people the wrong way here.

So when I ran across this new Pew poll, I wondered. Has it always been this way? Or are we as a society becoming more polarized and more entrenched and defensive of ideological perspective and less tolerant of opposing points of view than we once were? I have been operating under the assumption that President Bush was the most hated president in history from Day 1 of his Presidency and indeed he may have been, but was that because we have become more divided ideologically as a people? And the trend has continued?

The analysis:

Quote:
Pew Research Center for the People & the Press
Partisan Gap in Obama Job Approval Widest in Modern Era
April 2, 2009

For all of his hopes about bipartisanship, Barack Obama has the most polarized early job approval ratings of any president in the past four decades. The 61-point partisan gap in opinions about Obama's job performance is the result of a combination of high Democratic ratings for the president -- 88% job approval among Democrats -- and relatively low approval ratings among Republicans (27%).

By comparison, there was a somewhat smaller 51-point partisan gap in views of George W. Bush's job performance in April 2001, a few months into his first term. At that time, Republican enthusiasm for Bush was comparable to how Democrats feel about Obama today, but there was substantially less criticism from members of the opposition party. Among Democrats, 36% approved of Bush's job performance in April 2001; that compares with a 27% job approval rating for Obama among Republicans today.

The partisan gap in Bill Clinton's early days was also substantially smaller than what Obama faces, largely because Democrats were less enthusiastic about Clinton. In early April 1993, 71% of Democrats approved of Clinton's job performance, which is 17 points lower than Obama's current job approval among Democrats. Republican ratings of Clinton at that point (26%) are comparable to their current ratings of Obama today (27%).

The growing partisan divide in presidential approval ratings is part of a long-term trend. Going back in time, partisanship was far less evident in the early job approval ratings for both Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon. In fact, a majority of Republicans (56%) approved of Carter's job performance in late March 1977, and a majority of Democrats (55%) approved of Nixon's performance at a comparable point in his first term.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1178/polarized-partisan-gap-in-obama-approval-historic
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 07:57 am
@Foxfyre,
I think the poll shows that Republicans are more likely to be partisan and less likely to support a President of the opposite party. You will notice that both Clinton and Obama get lower ratings from the Republicans than Bush did from the Democrats.

It seems in spite of their rhetoric about you aren't patriotic unless you support your President, Republicans think they don't have to.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 08:38 am
@parados,
Is it that? Or is it because most Republicans do understand what Modern American Conservatism is all about and recognize when it is being compromised? And/or does this reflect my suspicion/opinion expressed earlier in this threat that in fact there are far more conservative Democrats than there are liberal Republicans?

I don't know. Just throwing out some possibilities here.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 08:52 am
I read this during my train ride to work this morning.
Quote:
We conservatives need to calm down
(BY DAVID HOROWITZ, Chicago Sun-Times Commentary, April 6, 2009)

I have been watching an interesting phenomenon on the right, which is beginning to cause me concern. I am referring to the over-the-top hysteria in response to the first months in office of our new president, which distinctly reminds me of the "Bush is Hitler" crowd on the left.

Conservatives, please. Let's not duplicate the manias of the left as we figure out how to deal with President Obama. He is not exactly the antichrist, although a disturbing number of people on the right are convinced he is.

I have recently received commentaries that claim that "Obama's speeches are unlike any political speech we have heard in American history" and "never has a politician in this land had such a quasi-religious impact on so many people" and "Obama is a narcissist," which leads the author to then compare Obama to David Koresh, Charles Manson, Joseph Stalin and Saddam Hussein. Excuse me while I blow my nose.

This fellow has failed to notice that all politicians are narcissists. So what? Political egos are one of the reasons the Founders put checks and balances on executive power. As for serial lying, is there a politician that cannot be accused of that? And once, a recent president set a pretty high bar in this category, and we survived it. As for Obama's speeches, they are hardly in the Huey Long, Louis Farrakhan, Fidel Castro vein. They are in fact eloquently and cleverly centrist and sober.

So what's the panic? It is true that Obama has shown surprising ineptitude in his first months in office, but he's not a zero with no accomplishments, as many conservatives seem to think -- unless you regard beating the Clinton machine and winning the presidency as nothing. But in doing this, you fall into the "Bush-is-an-idiot" bag of liberal miasmas.

It is also true Obama has ceded his domestic economic agenda to the House Democrats and spent a lot of money in the process. But what's the surprise in this? After all, George W. Bush and John McCain both proposed (and in Bush's case pushed through) massive government giveaways (which amount to government takeovers as well). This is bad, but it doesn't make Obama a closet Mussolini, however deplorable the conservatives among us may regard it. Moreover, he has run into political resistance even within his own party. Charlie Rangel has made it clear that the itemized deduction tax hike is not going through his committee -- and that should tell you the American system is still in place.

Even as astute a conservative thinker as Mark Steyn has been swept up in the tide that thinks Obama is a "transformative" radical. But look again at his approach to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. In both cases, he is carrying out the Bush policies -- the same that he once joined his fellow Democrats in condemning. And that should be reassuring to anyone concerned about where he is heading as commander in chief.

In other words, while it's reasonable to be unhappy with a Democratic administration and even concerned because the Democrats are now a socialist party in the European sense, we are not witnessing the coming of the antichrist. A good strategy for political conflicts is to understand your opponent first -- not to underestimate him, but not to overestimate him, either.

As we move forward, Obama faces increasingly tough choices in the wars against Islamic fascism in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Gaza and Iran. Hopefully, he will make the right choices, and should he do so, conservatives will need to be there to support him. If he makes the wrong choices, conservatives will need to be there to oppose him. But neither our support nor our opposition should be based on hysterical responses to policies that we just don't like. Let's leave that kind of behavior to the liberals who invented it.

David Horowitz is editor of the conservative Web site FrontPage Magazine.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 09:21 am
@wandeljw,
Yes, that's a hint of why the far right conservative and far left liberal have confused their ideology to almost look alike. There's less difference between the centrist Republicans and Democrats than the conservative (in all their different clothing) wants to admit. Especially when the neo-conservatives have milked their ideology dry.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 09:38 am
@wandeljw,
No doubt about it, Horowitz is right here. Our right wingnuts do the cause of a resurgence of MACean values no favors whatsoever when they invoke Godwin's law or condemn President Obama (or any other Demorats or liberals for that matter) in the snippy, schoolyard insulting manner utilized by the left wingnuts when they refer to President Bush, Republicans, or conservatives in general.

What I've found interesting here is the unwillingness of some on the left or right to consider what we mean by Modern American Conservatism (i.e. classical liberalism) but assume it is a new invention or just another version of neo-conservatism or the old hardline European style conservatism.

Newt Gingrich probably brings too much old baggage to be a viable standard bearer, but he has recently been reported to suggest that there indeed may be a viable third party formed before the next election. The reason? To provide an alternative to the Democrats who are the left wing of big government and the GOP who have become the right wing of big government. It is Modern American Conservatism that we have been describing that he says that we have lost and he thinks that kind of platform would be appealing to conservative Republicans, Demorats, and independents alike.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 09:40 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:

What I've found interesting here is the unwillingness of some on the left or right to consider what we mean by Modern American Conservatism (i.e. classical liberalism) but assume it is a new invention or just another version of neo-conservatism or the old hardline European style conservatism.


It isn't that we assume it's a new invention, it's that these people don't seem to actually exist in real life.

Cycloptichorn
 

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