AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

george, You can try to continue blaming the democrats in congress, but the GOP had control for 75% during Bush's presidency. They had the power and the means to stop what you describe in your post. Even during the last two years of Bush's presidency, the GOP was good at filibustering most legislation's put forward by the dems.

Again those with no sense of history and no sense of humor and other assorted numbnuts please scroll past this post, because my apologies, but I just couldn't resist.

Foxie never uses ad hominems, but she wrote:

Only if anybody admits to having no sense of history and no sense of humor. Honestly CI, why don't you just once look up the definition for ad hominem? It isn't rocket science. Just about anybody is able to understand the definition if they want to. And anybody other than numbnuts can avoid arguing ad hominem and will most likely strengthen their argument when they do.

Foxie, You really didn't understand my above post did you? I said "you never use ad hominems..."

We all understand you are the intellectual superwoman on these threads, and must continually try to diminish everybody else with your insights and wit.

The funny thing is you are the one who usually ends up chasing your own tail.

No. If you were not accusing me of arguing ad hominem, then I think your post made no sense at all. Your follow up is a pretty good clue that you haven't looked up the definition for ad hominem, though, or you intend to keep right on doing it on purpose.

It's because you don't understand why people continually tell you that you are the only one who seems to understand what your write, and everybody else misinterprets what you say.

Based on this observation, you'll never "get it."

Whatever rings your chimes CI. I am so happy you presume the authority to tell me what I do or do not understand or who understands what I write or who misinterprets what I say. I'm just one person in the world who enjoys discussing topics and debating opinions. I have never claimed to be more than that. Whatever I did to you to deserve such hostility from you, I apologize. It was never my intention. But if you continue to think that I deserve your repeated insults and ad hominem comments, well at least Robert gave us an ignore button.

Why in the world would I ever want to put you on "Ignore?" Your posts provides me with mental gymnastics almost daily; just what my wife wants me to do. You do keep me on my toes.

You probably haven't noticed it yet, but most people who challenge you have arrived at the same conclusion about you; a) you're always able to post put-downs on people who read your posts, b) you eventually contradict what you say from a previous post, c) you continually claim your readers do not understand what you write, and d) your feelings are hurt.

This cycle is almost guaranteed, and I enjoy all those who challenge you.

You don't understand. I am putting YOU on ignore if you keep this up. I would be ever EVER so grateful if you would put ME on ignore. Would you do me that kindness? Just one little kindness? I bet you've got it in you. I'm asking you nicely in a polite way to please do that.

Apologies to the thread. I HATE myself when I get dragged into one of these things, and I wish I hadn't today. But I'm going to go have a tall cool something , compose myself, and promise still once again:

I will not feed the trolls, argue with idiots, or engage in exercises of futility.

This is what Diest wrote a few pages back:

NOT my own composition :

Yep. That's the definition every beginning debate student memorizes. And learns very quickly not to commit.

The most condensed version you find in most dictionaries:



Anyhow, life is way too short to be intentionally rude, insulting, or contentious in an on line discussion. Probably every once in awhile we all fall into one of those traps that we know we shouldn't but do anyway, but I like to think I'm more grown up than that. Doesn't mean I always am, but I like to think I am.

Anyhow, if I have EVER intentionally or unintentionally offended anybody or insulted them--even when I was goaded into it--I apologize to them and everybody else who doesn't engage in that sort of thing. It just isn't necessary.

(I still think that cartoon up there is really funny.)

Advocate wrote

You do know that atheism supports the belief that their is no "God" to "thank"?
and
No, I was speaking about the religion that supports the belief that humans have caused and can even control cyclical global temperature changes.

JM

Foxie, If this isn't condensing BS, I don't know what is

Was "that" necessary? I think not.

cicerone imposter wrote:

Very true, there are a growing number of swing voters who not only decide elections but do so ever more thoughtfully. This is decidedly a good thing and why I have called for Republicans to not only adapt MACean ideals but to educate those voters as to why those would be good for the country (the Dems should do the same, and both should do so honestly). If voters clearly understood MACean and Democratic positions I would have little problem with their final decisions as to what policies the Federal government should adopt. Compromise would probably come easier also. I think Fox's above post from the WSJ (Obama's numbers "Coming Down to Earth") shows that a growing number of citizens have given much thought to the omnibus and stimulus package. They still like Obama but are questioning the long term effects that it might have on the economy and our country.

Oh, by the way surely you agree that RNC Mike Steele letting Rush do the talking for Republicans is doing them no favors.

JM

If we look at this issue as a necessity for the good of our country, it might be possible to compromise between the moderate liberals and moderate conservatives. That would be the ideal, but what I have seen is too much division between the extremes of both parties, and the voting records of our congress has been inconsistent in how they perform their duties for their constituents and country.

I'm a conservative at heart wanting (much) smaller government, less intrusion into my life by our government, and self-sufficiency for everybody except those who really need our help such as the handicapped and disabled. I also believe in universal health care by a combination of private and public insurance schemes with everybody having some form of co-pay for services so that it will not be abused.

Our country also spends too much on defense when this world has changed from organized armies to terrorists. Terrorism must be fought with the cooperation of the international community; not by the US unilaterally.

That's my politics in a nutshell.

Foxfyre wrote:"

Yes, this is exactly my point. But many Liberals and Progressives would not only agree to the above list of rights but demand that it be open ended. This, of course, is why I additionally asked: "If not then why not" Hoping that ,if that question were honestly answered, that answer would reveal that no matter how much the government played Robin Hood it would never have enough resources to sastisfy such demands. The beauty of the Constitution is its simplicity. It gives a few basic powers to the central government (few because they are enumerated) and the rest to the people and their more immediate local governments. To the people it grants a few and common sense rights. But the crux of the whole deal, as I see it, is that it grants individuals the OPPORTUNITY to pursue those items on the above list plus an infinte number more that the founders never even dreamed would exist.

JM

Foxfyre wrote:"

Yeh, Barney and Maxine ain't they a pair!
Barney has an excuse...he is just buying his seat. Maxine has the I.Q. of a corrupt piece of intelligent celery.

JM

HISTORY OF THE DECLINE OF THE FINANCE INDUSTRY
1977
President Carter signs into law CRA (i.e., Community Investment Act) Carter.
Mandates banks invest in poor urban areas.
1991
Home Mortgage Disclosure Act is expanded to compares rejection rates by race.
1995
Clinton changes CRA to require banks provide mortgages to their poorer communities.
1998
Janet Reno declares that since inception of 1992 fair lending initiative, Justice Department has filed 13 major fair lending lawsuits.
2001
*04/…."Bush declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is a potential large financial problem because financial trouble of a large "GSE (i.e., Government Sponsored Enterprise) could cause strong repercussions in financial markets."
2003
*01/22"Freddie Mac announces it must restate financial results for the previous 3 years due to earnings report errors.
*06/11"Freddie Mac is the subject of federal securities and criminal investigations.
*09/11"New York Times says, "Bush recommends the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."
*09/25--Barney Frank responds, "Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac do very good work, and they are not endangering the fiscal health of this country … I believe there has been more alarm raised about potential unsafety and unsoundness than, in fact, exists."
*10/29"Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.
2004
*06/16"Samuel Bodman, Deputy Secretary of Treasury, repeats Bush Administration call "for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System.
2004
*10/06"Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae CEO, testifies before the House Financial Services Committee, "assets are so riskless that the capital for holding them should be under two percent. "
2006
*04/18"Freddie Mac pays a record $3.8 million Federal Election Commission fine.
*05/23"Fannie Maes regulator announces that Fannie Mae has for years overstated reported income and capital by $10.6 billion.
*05/25"Senator John McCain calls for GSE regulatory reform legislation, warning: "If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system and the economy as a whole.”
*11/07"Democrats win majorities in both houses of Congress. The U.S. economy is growing at about 3 percent, unemployment is at 4.5 percent, and inflation under 2 percent.
2007
*06/23"Two Bear Sterns hedge fund groups collapse due to their mortgage investments.
*08/09" President Bush requests Congress pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*12/06" President Bush warns Congress of need to pass legislation reforming GSEs.
2008
*03/14"J.P. Morgan and the Federal Reserve recognize extent of Bear’s toxic assets, including sub-prime mortgages, and credit default swaps, and interconnection with other banks.
*03/14"At Economic Club of New York, President Bush requests Congress take action and reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*04/14"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/03"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/19"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/31"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*06/06"President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*07/11"Senator Chris Dodd says: "There’s sort of a panic going on today, and that’s not what ought to be. The facts don’t warrant that reaction, in my opinion … Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were never bottom feeders in the residential mortgage market. People ought to feel comfortable about that. "
*07/13"Treasury Secretary Paulson asks Congress to grant him authority to take over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*09/07"Paulson takes over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and offers them $200 billion, despite the fact their government credit line had been limited to $25 billion.
*09/15"Lehman Brothers officially collapses, the government does not intervene, and panic occurs, triggering a big Dow decline.
*09/16"Nancy Pelosi is asked if the Democrats bear some responsibility for the current crisis on Wall Street. Pelosi answers, "No. "
*09/17"Harry Reid regarding the economic collapse: "No one knows what to do."
*09/18"About 11:00 AM, the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States within two hours, equal to about $550. Treasury puts $105 billion in the system, but quickly realizes it cannot correct the problem.
*09/18"Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke ask Congress for the required funds"and unprecedented authority to bail out the entire financial system. They say failure to act means "we may not have an economy on Monday."
*09/23" Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke in Senate Banking Committee testimony outline the $700 billion asset relief program (TARP).
*09/29"That TARP version doesn’t pass the Democrat-controlled House of Representatives.
*10/03"Three days later TARP is passed after about $112 billion is added.
*11/05"The day after Barack Obama’s election, stocks plunge 500 points.
*11/12"Paulson changes the TARP rules from purchasing "troubled assets" to buying bank stocks to spur lending.
*11/23"Paulson gives Citibank a $308 billion bailout.
*12/06"Both houses of Congress agree to bail out the U.S. auto companies.
*12/18"President-elect Obama hints at an $800 billion to $1 trillion stimulus plan within his first month of office, and the Dow drops another 2.5 percent.
2009
*02/10"Treasury Secretary Tim Geitner unveils the Administration’s $2 trillion TARP II plan, and the Dow drops 382 points, or 4.6 percent
*02/17"President Obama signs a $787 billion bailout bill.
*02/18" President Obama reveals his mortgage bailout plan.
*02/19"Rick Santelli says in an impromptu speech on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange: "The government is promoting bad behavior … How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor’s mortgage? President Obama are you listening?" Santelli calls for a "Chicago Tea Party."
*02/20"The market falls as Chris Dodd, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee floats the idea of nationalizing the nation’s banks. The White House issues a denial, and the Dow ends down 100 points. The Dow is down now more than 800 points"nearly 10 percent"from the day before President Obama’s inauguration.
*02/21"Soros says, "The financial crisis marks end of a free-market model."

"We’ve got trouble right here in [Potomac] river city."

Y'all, of course already "know the rest of the story."

By the way, the Democrats allege they had nothing to do with causing this financial collapse.