55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 02:16 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I think it was just comparing USA state and federal taxes with German corporate taxes Walter rather than separating revenues between state and national governments in Germany. USA states definitely do have their own corporate taxes. One place where the link erred was in leaving New Mexico out of the states that have gross receipts tax instead of a corporate tax, but the net effect is the same as corporate taxes. And however the German government collects and/or distributes corporate taxes, the net result as indicated in that source is what it is. Very few, if there are any other, countries are set up like the USA where state governments have their own constitutions and laws separate from the federal government while still being under the federal constitutional and congressional umbrella. There is sharing of some revenues between the state and federal governments and others are completely independent of each other.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 02:24 pm
@Foxfyre,
I don't doubt that, and you/he certainly might be right.

I was only referring to the column "Top State Corporate Tax Rate" there: that is literally impossible in Germany - but it says: "17.0". (Our tax system is totally different to that in other countries, especially that in the US: I always wonder how someone can compare these different systems.)
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 02:35 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
He was referring to state corporate taxes in the USA Walter. Nothing more.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 02:41 pm
@Foxfyre,
Thanks and sorry: I misread the table in that case.

http://i41.tinypic.com/xc4y0z.jpg
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 02:57 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, Here's another interesting fact about your table for Combined Federal and State Rates: California is 40.7%, and the US is 39.27%. The US has the biggest economy in the world, and California is the fifth largest economy in the world. Japan and Germany's combined rates are in between, and yet their economies are the other two largest in the world.

These are facts that the conservatives seem to miss, and they cry wolf every time we prove facts over their personal opinions.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 03:02 pm
SIZES OF TAX RATES AND THEIR CONSEQUENCES

When the tax rate increases, there is less income left for Americans to spend, save, or invest. When the tax rate decreases, there is more income left for Americans to spend, save, or invest. After several months following a tax rate change, GPD increases at a greater rate when tax rates are lower than when they are higher. When GPD generally increases at a greater rate, and employment increases at a greater rate. When GPD increases at a slower rate, employment increases at a slower rate.

I estimate that when the top tax rate is between 25% and 30%, Federal revenue is generally greater than when the top tax rate is less than 25% or more than 30%.

NOTICE BELOW: When the top bracket tax rate increases or decreases, the bottom bracket tax rate generally, respectively, increases or decreases.

Quote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2051527/posts
Highest and lowest Income Tax Rates 1913 to 2007
Partial History of
U.S. Federal Income Tax Rates
Since 1913
Applicable
Year - Number of Income Brackets - First bracket - Top bracket - Source
1913 - - 1% - 7% - Census
1914 - - 1% - 7% - Census
1915 - - 1% - 7% - Census
1916 - - 2% - 15% - Census
1917 - - 2% - 67% - Census
1918 - - 6% - 73% - Census
1919 - - 4% - 73% - Census
1920 - - 4% - 73% - Census
1921 - - 4% - 73% - Census
1922 - - 4% - 56% - Census
1923 - - 3% - 56% - Census
1924 - - 1.5% - 46% - Census
1925 - - 1.5% - 25% - Census
1926 - - 1.5% - 25% - Census
1927 - - 1.5% - 25% - Census
1928 - - 1.5% - 25% - Census
1929 - - 0.375% - 24% - Census
1930 - - 1.125% - 25% - Census
1931 - - 1.125% - 25% - Census
1932 - - 4% - 63% - Census
1933 - - 4% - 63% - Census
1934 - - 4% - 63% - Census
1935 - - 4% - 63% - Census
1936 - - 4% - 79% - Census
1937 - - 4% - 79% - Census
1938 - - 4% - 79% - Census
1939 - - 4% - 79% - Census
1940 - - 4.4% - 81.1% - Census
1941 - - 10% - 81% - Census
1942 - - 19% - 88% - Census
1943 - - 19% - 88% - Census
1944 - - 23% - 94% - Census
1945 - - 23% - 94% - Census
1946 - - 19% - 86.45% - Census
1947 - - 19% - 86.45% - Census
1948 - - 16.6% - 82.13% - Census
1949 - - 16.6% - 82.13% - Census
1950 - - 17.4% - 84.36% - Census
1951 - - 20.4% - 91% - Census
1952 - - 22.2% - 92% - Census
1953 - - 22.2% - 92% - Census
1954 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1955 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1956 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1957 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1958 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1959 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1960 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1961 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1962 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1963 - - 20% - 91% - Census
1964 - - 16% - 77% - Census
1965 - - 14% - 70% - Census
1967 - - 14% - 70% - Census
1968 - - 14% - 75.25% - Census
1969 - - 14% - 77% - Census
1970 - - 14% 71.75% - Census
1971 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1972 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1973 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1974 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1975 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1976 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1977 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1978 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1979 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1980 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1981 - 15 brackets - 14% - 70% - IRS
1982 - 12 brackets - 12% - 50% IRS
1983 - 12 brackets - 12% - 50% IRS
1984 - 12 brackets - 12% - 50% IRS
1985 - 12 brackets - 12% - 50% IRS
1986 - 12 brackets - 12% - 50% IRS
1987 - 5 brackets - 11% - 38.5% - IRS
1988 - 3 brackets - 15% - 33% - IRS
1989 - 3 brackets - 15% - 33% - IRS
1990 - 3 brackets - 15% - 33% - IRS
1991 - 3 brackets - 15% - 31% - IRS
1992 - 3 brackets - 15% - 31% - IRS
1993 - 5 brackets - 15% - 39.6% - IRS
1994 - 5 brackets - 15% - 39.6% - IRS
1995 - 5 brackets - 15% - 39.6% - IRS
1996 - 5 brackets - 15% - 39.6% - IRS
1997 - 5 brackets - 15% - 39.6% - IRS
1998 - 5 brackets - 15% - 39.6% - IRS
1999 - 5 brackets - 15% - 39.6% - IRS
2000 - 5 brackets - 15% - 39.6% - IRS
2001 - 5 brackets - 15% - 39.1% - IRS
2002 - 6 brackets - 10% - 38.6% - IRS
2003 - 6 brackets - 10% - 35% - IRS
2004 - 6 brackets - 10% - 35% - IRS
2005 - 6 brackets - 10% - 35% - IRS
2006 - 6 brackets - 10% - 35% - IRS
2007 - 6 brackets - 10% - 35% - IRS


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 03:24 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, Quit manipulating numbers to satisfy your misguided arguments about tax rates and revenues.

HINT: When our economy suffers, so does tax revenue. It does't matter what the tax rates are.
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 03:38 pm
imo simply comparing "tax rates" between various countries is not a very useful exercise - except for just looking at the numbers .
what has to be brought into the equation is : what services are the governments providing for the taxes collected ?

for the longest time , canadian business has complained that because of high canadian tax rates - both corporate and individual - they were at a disasvantage when competing with U.S. business .

canada's "institute of chartered accountants" did some extensive research and several years ago showed that once such things as : health insurance , highway tolls , export subsidies ... and so on are taken into account , most canadian businesses had an advantagess over U.S. business ("the big three" knew all the time that they could operate at less cost in canada - but they were shrewd enough not to talk about it ) .

still , canadian business simply keeps on complaining - and why should they not ? it costs them no nothing to complain and if they can squeeze some more money out of the "government" - aka as the canadian taxpayer - they'll happily pocket it .
(some years ago a canadian politician coined the phrase : "corporate welfare bums" - an apt phrase imo. ) .
hbg

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 03:41 pm
@hamburger,
Same here in Germany: if you believe complaints by the corporations, they pay the highest taxes ...
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 03:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Shocked Shocked Shocked

Wink
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 07:23 pm
@ican711nm,
My figures are from the US budget for the % of GDP for taxation, historical tables. Unless you want to call Bush a liar you are full of ****.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy09/pdf/hist.pdf
See table 1.3


A huge number of wage earners SPEND money which in turn is the driving force of the economy.

http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=5&FirstYear=2007&LastYear=2008&Freq=Qtr


Investment makes up less of GDP than government spending.


Which of my figures are you saying are outrageous?

You presented nothing to dispute it. You only show how ignorant you are.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 07:24 pm
@ican711nm,
Top marginal rates means nothing as I already stated. Repeating meaningless statistics only shows you are an idiot. It doesn't make the stats have meaning.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 07:26 pm
@parados,
Some people like ican are "hopeless" idiots. His repetitions are very tiresome, and he's on my "Ignore" list. I sometimes cheat and peak at his post, but he's like a broken record; nothing he says changes.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 07:35 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:

I agree, but that simple fact has nothing to do with the simple fact that tax rates determine how much money is left for employees to buy or invest.
That's funny, you agree with it afgter you called it outrageous when I stated it.
Quote:
Both contribute to the size of the GDP, but private investment contributes a greater percentage to the GDP per dollar than do net after tax wages. Federal tax revenues contribute the least per dollar to the GDP.


What a crock of **** from you ican.. Prove your statement.

Quote:
THE MORE PEOPLE WHO EARN SALARIES IN THE TOP 50% OF INCOMES, THE MERRIER!
I guess you have proved you are an idiot. How many wage earners can be in the top 50% of wage earners do you think? 60%? 75%? 100%? If you had a brain, you would realize that only 50% of wage earners can be in the top 50%. But then you don't have a brain, do you?

Do you even bother to look at your statistics before you make such stupid arguments?
In every year you cited, the largest % contributed to GDP was from consumer expenditures Where do the majority of people's spending money come from do you think? In EVERY year, the government contributed more to GDP than investments did.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 07:41 pm
@parados,
ican wrote: Quote:

Quote:
Both contribute to the size of the GDP, but private investment contributes a greater percentage to the GDP per dollar than do net after tax wages. Federal tax revenues contribute the least per dollar to the GDP.



parados asked:
Quote:
What a crock of **** from you ican.. Prove your statement.


How can he prove his statement? His claim comes from where all of his claims are from; up his arse.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 11:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

ican, Quit manipulating numbers to satisfy your misguided arguments about tax rates and revenues.

HINT: When our economy suffers, so does tax revenue. It does't matter what the tax rates are.

ci, have you ever run a business? If you haven't, that probably explains why you do not understand that taxes are another expense along with other expenses that dictate your competitive ability, profit, and productivity. It is no secret that states and areas have offered tax breaks to companies to lure their businesses, and it works, because it makes a difference.

You just said tax rates make no difference. I am just curious what economics classes you learned this in, so that others can avoid wasting money taking that class. Or if it was a book, we won't waste our time and money to buy it or read it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 12:21 am
@okie,
No, I have never "run" a business, but worked in management positions for most of my 30 year career.

Taxes is not what makes a business profitable/successful or not; isn't that shocking?
genoves
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 12:42 am
@okie,
Okie-Here is an interesting study concerning tax cuts. The most important section of this study indicates that President Obama's push to increase taxes on Corporations will result in less tax revenue.


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FACT CHECK ARCHIVE



January 16, 2008
Q: Have tax cuts always resulted in higher tax revenues and more economic growth as many tax cut proponents claim?
A: No. In fact, economists say tax cuts do not spark enough growth to pay for themselves.
This economic theory is what George H.W. Bush called “voodoo economics.” We called it “supply-side spin” when we wrote about Republican presidential contender John McCain’s claim that President George W. Bush’s tax cuts had increased federal revenues. We found that a slew of government economists " from the Congressional Budget Office, the Treasury Department, the Joint Committee on Taxation and the White House’s Council of Economic Advisers " all disagreed with that theory, saying that tax cuts may spur economic growth but they lead to revenues that are lower than they would have been if the cuts hadn’t been enacted.

The supply-side theory that tax-cut proponents often espouse was demonstrated by the Laffer curve, named for economist Arthur B. Laffer. The curve suggests that a higher tax rate can generate just as much revenue as a lower rate. But most economists are not Laffer-curve purists. Instead, while they may believe in the power of tax cuts to create an economic boost, they don't say that growth is enough to completely make up for lost revenue. For example, N. Gregory Mankiw, former chair of the current President Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers, calculated that the growth spurred by capital gains tax cuts pays for about half of lost revenue over a number of years and that payroll tax cuts generate enough growth to pay for about 17 percent of what is lost.

CORPORATE TAX RATES MAY, HOWEVER, BE AN EXCEPTION. There is some evidence that cutting the corporate tax rate can produce more revenue than was projected under the higher rate in the special case of multinational corporations, which can move their money and operations around to take advantage of lower taxes in certain countries. Economists with the pro-business American Enterprise Institute came to that conclusion in a study released in July 2007. They found that lower corporate rates attract enough growth in corporate income to produce higher government revenues.

*******************************************************************

The article also backs up ICAN's assertion that higher government revenues can be produced through lower corporate rates. You see, Okie, when Liberal Fascists like Cyclopitchorn want to FORCE multinational Corporations to do all of their business in the US, most rational people know that in today's globalization( as is indicated in the article above--"multinational corporations can MOVE THEIR MONEY AROUND TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF LOWER TAXES IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES"...

Parados and Cicerone Imposter( both of whom almost never give evidence or documentation,) obviously are unaware of this.



genoves
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 12:43 am
@cicerone imposter,
If a business is overtaxed,it will fail.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:52 am
@genoves,
How does the government overtax any company? How does companies like Google, Amazon, HP, Apple, Microsoft, Toyota, Honda, Johnson and Johnson, McDonalds (etc, etc, etc..... ) pay taxes and still "survive?"
0 Replies
 
 

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