AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

@okie,

Where do these losers come from, Okie?
I guess if one had a lot of time to kill one could find how many came from the left or the right and how the media covered or didn't cover the stories over the past few decades.
What I find curious is that Lee, or Brett Farve the football player, had such an ego to believe that their expertise in politics or sports somehow translated into something sexual.
Another throw away comment. Drive by; nothing of importance was said.
(PS: I hope the latest storm missed you)

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@okie,

So okie.. Are you saying that an unofficial motto exists for the US? You can't argue interpretation in one instance and no interpretation in the other.

Congress approved the use of the motto E Pluribus Unum on the great seal of the US on June 20, 1782. If you want to argue that "creator" means God then I can argue that approval of the motto on the official seal is the same thing as an official motto.

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@okie,

"Confidence in man or government, versus confidence in God, form the two polar opposites in the political world. I believe this distinction is evident in almost all political issues and agendas, and the distinction helps define liberalism versus conservatism. "

hmmmm.

kinda like the muslim brotherhood, and the young democrats in Egypt...

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

Confidence in man or government, versus confidence in God, form the two polar opposites in the political world.

So confidence in God is on the right end of the spectrum?

So does that mean that Kings that rule by divine right are on the right end of the spectrum?
Does it mean that the Taliban is on the right end of the spectrum?
How about Al Qaeda?
Doesn't that mean that any dictator would be on the right end of the spectrum since they don't have confidence in Man?

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@realjohnboy,

What an ego Lee has.

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@okie,

Quote:

I am increasingly believing

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
Confidence in man or government, versus confidence in God, form the two polar opposites in the political world.

So confidence in God is on the right end of the spectrum?

Yes, I think so, but that is in regard to governing our own lives, not some Muslim fascist dictator for example. I thought this prinicple would be understood by all as embodied in the founding documents of this country, such as the Declaration of Independence, wherein it is stated that our rights are endowed by our creator.

Quote:

So does that mean that Kings that rule by divine right are on the right end of the spectrum?
Does it mean that the Taliban is on the right end of the spectrum?
How about Al Qaeda?
Doesn't that mean that any dictator would be on the right end of the spectrum since they don't have confidence in Man?

No. You have completely missed the point. A king, the Taliban, or Al Qaeda ruling by dictatorship is a polar opposite of each individual being responsible and free. A system of all of us being under a central ruler or king would be placing our confidence in man and the government of man, instead of placing our confidence in ourselves to do what is responsible toward one God and toward each other. In fact, in the Old Testament of the Bible, you can read that the people wanted a king, and God eventually gave them a king, but it was not according to what God originally wanted, as described in the Bible's Old Testament. I realize you must first believe what the Bible says, what Moses wrote, etc., in order to understand what I am saying. This is Judeo-Christian history and beliefs that we are delving into here.
And your last statement about a dictator being on the right end of the spectrum, you have it the opposite from what a dictator would believe. Dictators place all confidence in man, essentially themselves, to rule other peoples lives better than those other people can for themselves. They believe central planning works better than individual planning and responsibility, and that is totally consistent with leftist idealogy.

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@okie,

One would think that a student of Judeo-Christian history would remember that the New Testament supersedes the Old; and that Jesus, that King of Kings, was downright Liberal.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

The Jews were looking for an earthly king, but Jesus plainly told them he was not who they were looking for in that regard. He was in no way interested or involved with politics or an earthly government.

Also, Jesus was not liberal. He was all about individual freedom and responsibility.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

The Jews were looking for an earthly king, but Jesus plainly told them he was not who they were looking for in that regard. He was in no way interested or involved with politics or an earthly government.

Also, Jesus was not liberal. He was all about individual freedom and responsibility.

Socially liberal, Okie. He hung out with anyone - even gays, whores, and lepers - and told us not to judge one another. Bears no resemblance to the modern Conservative at all.

He wasn't exactly huge on the pursuit of money, either. And I highly doubt he would agree with the modern Conservative that Greed is a virtue. Quite the opposite.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

this is like junior high gym class.

I get Jesus, you gotta take Hitler...

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Socially liberal, Okie. He hung out with anyone - even gays, whores, and lepers - and told us not to judge one another. Bears no resemblance to the modern Conservative at all.

Big point is that he did not place his stamp of approval on any wrong behavior, cyclops, including homosexual behavior, adultery, etc. Example, if you are mentioning "whore" in reference to the woman at the well, if my memory is accurate, he told her to "go and sin no more."

Quote:

He wasn't exactly huge on the pursuit of money, either. And I highly doubt he would agree with the modern Conservative that Greed is a virtue. Quite the opposite.
Cycloptichorn

I agree he did not encourage the pursuit of money as an end in itself, but neither did he encourage anyone to take anything from others that they did not earn. I also challenge you to prove or find any evidence that conservatives believe greed is a virtue. First of all, it would help if you could define for us what you think "greed" is? For example, is earning money "greed," or is wanting what others have "greed?"

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@okie,

Ican and other Conservatives here have directly claimed that Greed is a virtue. I haven't got a robust search function, so I can't find the posts without tons of work. But I seem to recall us having a very similar conversation at one point.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Ican and other Conservatives here have directly claimed that Greed is a virtue. I haven't got a robust search function, so I can't find the posts without tons of work. But I seem to recall us having a very similar conversation at one point.
Cycloptichorn

I would recommend that if you cannot produce the goods, then drop your claim, cyclops. I suspect it goes back to the definition of "greed." That would be a good starting point if you wish to discuss it.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Socially liberal, Okie. He hung out with anyone - even gays, whores, and lepers - and told us not to judge one another. Bears no resemblance to the modern Conservative at all.
Big point is that he did not place his stamp of approval on any wrong behavior, cyclops, including homosexual behavior, adultery, etc. Example, if you are mentioning "whore" in reference to the woman at the well, if my memory is accurate, he told her to "go and sin no more."

Slight correction, it was not the woman at the well, it was in John chapter 8, with the woman caught in adultery, when he said "go and sin no more."

1 Reply

@parados,

Funny, I know many deeply religious left wing people, including several with advanced degrees in theology.

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@okie,

Quote:

Also, Jesus was not liberal. He was all about individual freedom and responsibility.

Liberalism is about individual freedom but liberalism recognizes that when two rights are in conflict, one is not a right. Liberalism also recognizes that certain . . . shall be call them privileges . . . must be surrendered for the common good.

Liberals are personally responsible while conservatives assume responsibility for nothing, not even their own education.

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@okie,

Telling a person to go and sin no more is taking responsibility for that other person and exercising charity toward them. That story marks Jesus as a liberal. A conservative would have stoned her.

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

kinda like the muslim brotherhood, and the young democrats in Egypt...

Neither are good for Egypt or the US.

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Telling a person to go and sin no more is taking responsibility for that other person and exercising charity toward them. That story marks Jesus as a liberal. A conservative would have stoned her.

That story marks Jesus as forgiving and compassionate, but not liberal. Today's liberals want conservatives to all place our stamp of approval on and even reward negative behaviors and lifestyles, such as abortion, illegal drug use, illegal immigration, the list goes on. I am in favor of compassion, but I am not in favor of taxpayers supporting and encouraging more negative behaviors that damage our society as a whole.

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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

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