AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

okie wrote:

I cannot help but observe that your above post directly supports the logical conclusion that Hitler and the Nazi's were leftists, by virtue of the fact that they believed in a strong central government to solve their nation's social and economic problems through direct regulation and control, at the expense of personal freedom and liberty. As the Time Magazine article explained in January of 1939, the capitalists in Germany also learned that free market capitalism was also expendable in favor of the all powerful Nazi State.

Nonsense ! It demonstrates that they are authoritarian, like the kings of an earlier era, the Directory of the French revolution or Napoleon who followed them, or the 19th century Bismark government of Germany, or the tyrannies of Hitler or Stalin in the 20th century.
I have chosen examples from both the left and the right as you would define them. However, I don't expect that to deter you. You simply ignore these and other facts that confound your twisted arguments.
Once again you are attempting to force a reality that involves at least two degreees of freedom (independent coordinates) on a theoretical model that provides only one. It can't be done without the confusion and contradictions that so beset all of your attempts to defend the indefensible.

Are we now at the mercy of the tyranny of the majority?

okie wrote:

Are we now at the mercy of the tyranny of the majority?

That got me confused. Could you expand on that? Thank you.

Polls? You know, if a President tries to govern based upon polls, you're kind of like a dog chasing your tail. I don't think you can make good, sound decisions based upon polls. And I don't think the American people want a President who relies upon polls and focus groups to make decisions for the American people. (Apr. 28, 2005)

You might have a small leg to stand on, george, if Hitler and the Nazis wanted a strong state in order to enforce the rights of individuals and in order to maintain a free market capitalist economy, but they did not. In fact, just the opposite. I have provided proof of that with the Time Magazine link and article. Are you going to ignore the evidence as if it does not exist?

GW Bush said:

Quote:

Polls? You know, if a President tries to govern based upon polls, you're kind of like a dog chasing your tail. I don't think you can make good, sound decisions based upon polls. And I don't think the American people want a President who relies upon polls and focus groups to make decisions for the American people. (Apr. 28, 2005)

“What luck for rulers that men do not think.”
-Adolf Hitler

okie wrote:

You might have a small leg to stand on, george, if Hitler and the Nazis wanted a strong state in order to enforce the rights of individuals and in order to maintain a free market capitalist economy, but they did not. In fact, just the opposite. I have provided proof of that with the Time Magazine link and article. Are you going to ignore the evidence as if it does not exist?

More nonsense ! You are hoplessly confused and caught up in the disorienting muddle of your preconceptions.

None of the examples I gave was particularly interested in the rights of individuals. Instead they were interested in the rights of the ruling elite. The French revolution proclaimed its devotion to "the rights of man", however it turned out that those rights were determined only by the ruling elite - it was the same with Napoleon who followed them. A similar story could be told about the Communist tyrannies. Hitler proclaimed his devotion to the rights of true Germans, but it turned out that only he and the ruling Nazi elite were allowed to determine what those rights were. That behavior, in a political context, is called authoritarianism - and it doesn't matter whether the one who does it deceitfully proclaims his devotion to the rights of others - it is the behavior that counts. Moreover authoritarian governments can be found on both the right and the left of the conventional political spectrum.

I knew you would bite, because you don't remember what you post . On another thread you posted:

Quote:

“What luck for rulers that men do not think.”
-Adolf Hitler

Does that apply to GW Bush too!

Then why did you post this quote from Hitler if doesn't apply?

Whatever happened to our rights as individuals in this country? Are we now at the mercy of the tyranny of the majority? By the way, can you cite a poll that indicates Americans want single payer government health care?

okie wrote:

You might have a small leg to stand on, george, if Hitler and the Nazis wanted a strong state in order to enforce the rights of individuals and in order to maintain a free market capitalist economy, but they did not. In fact, just the opposite. I have provided proof of that with the Time Magazine link and article. Are you going to ignore the evidence as if it does not exist?

More nonsense ! You are hoplessly confused and caught up in the disorienting muddle of your preconceptions.

None of the examples I gave was particularly interested in the rights of individuals. Instead they were interested in the rights of the ruling elite. Kings were interested only in their own rights. The French revolution proclaimed its devotion to "the rights of man", however it turned out that those rights were determined only by the ruling elite - it was the same with Napoleon who followed them. A similar story could be told about the Communist tyrannies. Hitler proclaimed his devotion to the rights of true Germans, but it turned out that only he and the ruling Nazi elite were allowed to determine what those rights were - or who got to enjoy them. That behavior, in a political context, is called authoritarianism - and it doesn't matter whether the one who does it deceitfully proclaims his devotion to the rights of others - it is the behavior that counts. Moreover authoritarian governments can be found on both the right and the left of the conventional political spectrum - and I have here provided you a few examples.

I had no idea that we had no right to be healthy.