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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 11:55 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
The Soros - Alinski gang believe in crowning them kings over us instead. They think we need a king, and that we are incapable of taking care of ourselves in an atmosphere of individual responsibility, freedom, and liberty.

Ok, okie! I think you're correct!

What makes the The Soros - Alinski gang believe they are capable of taking care of themselves much less taking care of all the rest of us?

The Leftist Liberals posting here demonstrate with most of their posts that they are incapable of taking care of themselves and consequently require some or many others do that for them.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 12:02 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

I agree.
The difference is I want them to come herre LEGALLY.
You dont seem to care if they are here LEGALLY or not.


Well, we're talking about babies who are born here. It isn't as if they had a choice, and when they grow up, they grow up as Americans. Why should they be punished? Why not instead embrace them and encourage them to become the best amongst us?

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 12:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
OK, we let the children grow up as American citizens.

We remove the children from their parents, deport the parents, and they never see their children again.
OR
We allow the parents to keep custody of their children, deport all of them, and the child does NOT become a US citizen.

The choice is up to the parents.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 12:37 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

OK, we let the children grow up as American citizens.


"Let" seems for me a kind of wrong verb (or "we" a slightly off the mark substantive).

Those children ARE US-American citizens. By law. And protected by the Constitution.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 12:40 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

We allow the parents to keep custody of their children, deport all of them, and the child does NOT become a US citizen.

The choice is up to the parents.


Really? Do non-US-citizens have the right to "choose" of an US-citizen can loose the US-citizenship?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 07:17 pm
@mysteryman,
Your solutions seem reasonable, mm. I am a bit unclear on this. It seems like I have heard that anyone born here does become a U. S. citizen automatically, but I have to confess I don't know what happens to the status of the parents if they came here illegally to have their children here? In any case, it seems like we need to look at the laws in regard to this and come up with reasonable laws, and then enforce them.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 07:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Really? Do non-US-citizens have the right to "choose" of an US-citizen can loose the US-citizenship?

Well, Fidel Castro wasn't even his parent and he was able to get Elian Gonzales shipped back to Cuba at gunpoint, so that he could indoctrinate the poor kid. Wasn't this after Elian's mother died to bring him here for political asylum?
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 07:55 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Non US citizens have no right to choose anything regarding our govt, how it works, or what it does.
Once or if they become US citizens, then they have a say in our govt and how it works.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 07:58 pm
@okie,
LOL.. you sure like to make up crap okie.. Or did Rush tell you that whopper.

Elian Gonzales father lived in Cuba. In the US when one parent dies the other gets the minor children unless a court has removed the parental rights. But we wouldn't want you to follow the rule of law, would we okie?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 07:59 pm
@mysteryman,
MM, the question was, "Why should a parent who is not a citizen be able to strip their child of citizenship?"
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 08:03 pm
@parados,
The parent is being given a choice.
No matter what happens, it is the parents CHOICE.
If they dont want their child to lose citizenship, they dont have to.

If they want their child to lose citizenship, thats fine also.

How is a parent stripping their child of citizenship?
That outcome doesnt have to happen, if a parent CHOOSES for it not to happen.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 01:27 am
@mysteryman,
I really don't get it.

Here, in in a couple of other countries, which follow Roman Law, you (in some cases) have dual citizenship and then you can decide at the age of 18 what citizenship you want to keep.

But it would be impossible - as we understand laws - that parents have the power to get rid of their children's citizenship.

We seem to have a very different understanding about what rights you've got once you are a citizen. (But I do admit that in many countries right-wing conservatives want to change this here in Europe, too.)
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 05:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter,
Here in the US, if a foreign citizen has a baby, that child is a US citizen.
The parents, here legally or illegally, are allowed to stay in the US because of that baby.

I dont feel they should be allowed to stay.
Why are they being rewarded for breaking the law, simply because of where their baby is born?

H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 05:56 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:


Why are they being rewarded for breaking the law, simply because of where their baby is born?




Because they tend to vote for democrats.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 05:57 am
@mysteryman,
I do know that you've the ius soli, and my responses weren't about how you get that citzenship but how you can loose it.

What you're saying is that the parents can -somehow- take away their child's citizenship ("it's their choice").


Here, only courts can take that citizenship away. (But as said, right-wing conservatives are trying to chance that in several countries).
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 06:00 am
here's one area i tend to agree with the conservatives, i don't think dropping out of a womb on any particular piece of land gives any special entitlement

of course i think a person who was born in a country and might have roots going back to the founding of the country should be able to have their citizenship stripped, in a case of treason for instance
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 09:18 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

LOL.. you sure like to make up crap okie.. Or did Rush tell you that whopper.

Elian Gonzales father lived in Cuba. In the US when one parent dies the other gets the minor children unless a court has removed the parental rights. But we wouldn't want you to follow the rule of law, would we okie?

I made nothing up. And I don't believe your "crap" for sure, parados. I remember the Elian Gonzales episode. I thought we were a nation with compassion, that offers political asylum to people escaping tyrannical governments, and perhaps you forgot, but Elian's mother died trying to get here with her son, to seek asylum.

You argue for people coming here illegally to be able to enjoy the benefits of this country, perhaps even to get citizenship, but you advocate sending a child back to a tyrannical government under the point of a gun? Even after the child's mother essentially sacrificed her very life to get him here? You ignore the fact that the legal guardianship over Elian was highly contested and at best unclear and subject to opinion. Since Elian wanted to stay here, it seems entirely logical to allow him to stay here, especially since his mother died to get him here, and if his father wanted to have guardianship, let him come here and do it here. At least don't send the poor kid back to Cuba because of Castro. You don't seem to be very consistent in your moral judgements about what is right or wrong, parados.

The above is my opinion, not necessarily Rush Limbaugh's. He may agree with me, as he usually does.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 09:23 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Walter,
Here in the US, if a foreign citizen has a baby, that child is a US citizen.
The parents, here legally or illegally, are allowed to stay in the US because of that baby.

I dont feel they should be allowed to stay.
Why are they being rewarded for breaking the law, simply because of where their baby is born?

I agree with your question, mm, which is simple common sense. I also agree with one of the likely answers that H2OMAN gave, as follows:
Quote:
Because they tend to vote for democrats.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 09:55 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

here's one area i tend to agree with the conservatives, i don't think dropping out of a womb on any particular piece of land gives any special entitlement


Actually, ius soli is one of the oldest conservative ideas, virtually a conservative ideal (and here, conservative doesn't necessarily mean any political party line but 'conservative' in the true meaning of the word, from the times of the "civis Romanus" onwards. (Later, most European countries changed that, but mainly 'new' countries in America have dug out this antique Roman prionciple ...)
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 10:26 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Walter,
Here in the US, if a foreign citizen has a baby, that child is a US citizen.
The parents, here legally or illegally, are allowed to stay in the US because of that baby.

No, they're not.

Quote:
Far from "anchoring" their parents to US soil, many children born to undocumented immigrants are seeing them be deported. And for all the rhetoric spewed by the right about the need for tough new legislation to combat the immigrant "invasion," laws governing immigration to the United States have gotten more restrictive in the past fifteen years.

Today, a citizen must be 21 in order to sponsor the green card application of a parent or an immediate relative. The applicant must then show documentation proving that he or she has not been in the United States unlawfully for more than one year. Barring such proof—the primary obstacle most immigrants face—the parent must return to the country of origin for ten years before being allowed to lawfully re-enter the United States and resume the application process. This is commonly referred to as the "touchback rule," explains María Blanco, director of the Earl Warren Institute at the UC, Berkeley, School of Law, and it is among the most insurmountable restrictions placed on the legal naturalization process in the name of "immigration reform" passed in 1996.

Source

Only a tiny number of undocumented immigrants qualify for relief from deportation because they have had a child born in the US:

Quote:
It's important to note that having an "anchor baby" won't do much to help a Mexican mom become a U.S. citizen. Because citizen children cannot sponsor their parents for citizenship until they turn 21 -- and because if the parents were ever illegal, they would have to return home for 10 years before applying to come in -- having a baby to secure citizenship for its parents is an extremely long-term, and uncertain, process.

However, having a citizen child can produce some short-term benefits, said Marc Rosenblum, a senior policy analyst for the Migration Policy Institute. Pregnant women and nursing mothers could be eligible for certain benefits under the Women-Infants-Children (WIC) program, which provides food and nutrition vouchers, and their children could enroll in Medicaid, although the undocumented parents could not. Having a child can also help an undocumented parent qualify for relief from deportation, but only 4,000 unauthorized immigrants can receive such status per year, and the alien has to have been in the U.S. for at least 10 years. That means very long odds, Rosenblum said.

Source

I found those sources in about ten minutes, using only Google and my innate cunning. I understand Google and other comparable search engines are also available to other people who use the internet.
0 Replies
 
 

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