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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 05:32 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Quote:
the Repubs had plenty of ideas to reform the industry


Please show us?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 05:35 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

We had universal health care, just not government run.


What? We certainly did not. We had the OPPOSITE of Universal Health Care.

Quote:
And the Repubs had plenty of ideas to reform the industry, but no, the party of no, the Democrats, they said no to any reasonable reform.


Oh, is that so?

How do you explain this, then?

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1895706,00.html

Quote:
When Barack Obama informed congressional Republicans [in April] that he would support a controversial parliamentary move to protect health-care reform from a filibuster in the Senate, they were furious. That meant the bill could pass with a simple majority of 51 votes, eliminating the need for any GOP support. Where, they demanded, was the bipartisanship the President had promised? So, right there in the Cabinet Room, the President put a proposal on the table, according to two people who were present. Obama said he was willing to curb malpractice awards, a move long sought by Republicans that is certain to bring strong opposition from the trial lawyers who fund the Democratic Party.

What, he wanted to know, did the Republicans have to offer in return?

Nothing, it turned out. Republicans were unprepared to make any concessions, if they had any to make.


I'm sorry to say that you are 100% wrong when you say that the HC reform bill contained no Republican ideas, and that the Dems weren't willing to compromise. They most certainly were - but your group had already gotten so deep into the 'death panel' lie bullshit, there was no way they could work with the Dems to influence the legislation. This is the end result of such constant demonization from a group - you can't work with them to get even part of what you want.

Even when it's offered to you.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 05:36 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
okie still doesn't understand that those without health insurance had to pay out of pocket for health care services. He calls that "universal health care."
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 06:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm still paying out of pocket, and I have insurance. I happen to think it works well, as my deductible is high, and I can control costs better if I pay for it myself. After all, why make everyone else pay for my doctor checking out high blood pressure or a sore throat? Don't you have one responsible bone in your body instead of expecting everyone else to pay your way?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 06:14 pm
@okie,
You're talking about personal experience without understanding the concept of universal health care. No wonder you're so confused about most things.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 06:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You did not answer my question. Why do you want everyone else to pay for your medical care?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 06:29 pm
@okie,
When did I say I wanted everybody else to pay for my medical care? Please cut and paste from any of my posts where I said such a thing?

You lie by inference.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 06:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
When you mention universal health care, most people know that means probably single payer government run. At least Obama says that is what he ultimately wants. If it is single payer, that means the government, ci. Why should the government be obligated to pay for your health care? After all, we know that you are financially comfortable and well able to insure yourself. Why would you wish to throw that away in exchange for an inferior manager of your health care?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 07:28 pm
@okie,
CLUE: We already spend the most on health care, but do not cover everybody. What do you have against single payer health care? There have been several reports that most Americans want single payer health care. What's your excuse?
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 07:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What do I have against single payer health care? For starters, I don't like one size fits all, and I do not believe government central planning is superior to freedom and liberty for private citizens to make their own decisions. In other words, I am old fashioned, I still believe in freedom and liberty.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 07:47 pm
@okie,
You're wrong before you even start; it's not one size fits all. You really don't know what you are talking about.

This is taken from Wiki:
Quote:
Types and variations

Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom have single-payer health insurance programs. These programs provide universal health care. The United States has U.S. Medicare but this system is only for senior citizens and some of the disabled.[2] Government is increasingly involved in U.S. health care spending, paying about 45% of the $2.2 trillion the nation spent on individuals' medical care in 2004.[3] However, studies have shown that the publicly-administered share of health spending in the U.S. is closer to 60%.[4]

Single-payer healthcare may be operated in a number of ways. In some cases doctors may be employed, and hospitals run by, the government. This is the case in the United Kingdom, and is referred to in the US as socialized medicine. Alternatively the government may purchase healthcare services from outside organizations. This is the approach taken in Canada.

According to Princeton University health economist Uwe E. Reinhardt, U.S. Medicare, Medicaid, and State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) represent "forms of 'social insurance' coupled with a largely private health-care delivery system" rather than forms of "socialized medicine." In contrast, he describes the Veterans Administration healthcare system as a pure form of socialized medicine because it is "owned, operated and financed by government."[5]

The Veterans Administration is a single-payer system and provides excellent quality, said Reinhardt. In a peer-reviewed paper published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, researchers of the RAND Corp. reported that the quality of care received by Veterans Administration patients scored significantly higher overall than did comparable metrics for patients currently using U.S. Medicare.[6]

Some writers describe publicly administered health care systems as "single-payer plans." Some writers have described any system of health care which intends to cover the entire population, such as voucher plans, as "single-payer plans,"[7] although this is an uncommon usage. The standard usage refers to health insurance, as opposed to healthcare delivery, operating as a public service, like fire departments, community libraries, and other publicly-funded services, offered to citizens and legal residents towards providing near-universal or universal health care. The fund can be managed by the government directly or as a publicly owned and regulated agency.[8]
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 09:13 pm
@mysteryman,
What is the matter with you? Can't you read? I just posted two pieces about discontent in the workforce and you, blowhard that you are, suggest that only my friends are discontent.

Where I live . . . and I mention it all the time . . . has nothing . . . LET ME REPEAT, NOTHING . . . to do with the government statistic that the last year a retail clerk (not manager) could support a family was 1978.

Is that specific enough for you?

Jesus, the sort of "conversation" or "argument" or whatever it is that you make is tiresome beyond belief.

WHY CAN'T YOU FIGURE OUT FOR YOURSELF THAT A FAMILY CAN NOT BE SUPPORTED ON THE WAGES A RETAIL CLERK MAKES?

Why?

Anyone with an IQ of 100 ought to know that $8.50 an hour is not going to support a family. What you probably do not know is that below the level of manager, there is virtually no full-time employment in retail.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 09:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Enough. I got that information from the Census Bureau but, as I told MM, anyone with an average IQ ought to know that a family can not be supported on the salary a retail clerk makes.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 09:25 pm
@georgeob1,
What a pile! You mean those who kiss ass. I bet you have never worked in retail and have no idea what utter fools at least half the retail managers are.

There is a great deal of humiliation practiced in retail. Some companies make it a policy to discipline employees in front of the entire staff. K-Mart formerly passed out paychecks on a Thursday afternoon. Any employee who was under-performing or might have been interpreted as having "fraternized," as they termed it, with a member of the opposite sex, was told by the personal manager to sit next to her while she drilled them as she handed out the paychecks to the rest of the store's employees.

Actually, with the exception of the gift shop, I have never personally experienced or heard of an employee suggestion that was well-received in retail. Energy and imagination is frowned upon.

I was the lead sales person week after week at Williams-Sonoma. It was not uncommon for me to sell $1,000 worth of goods within the first half of my shift. I was praised by several managers for being able to instantly adjust my speech patterns to the customers. (A couple of months ago, I was almost crucified here for saying that I could tell a college graduate by their speech patterns and I was told that I was wrong: that such a thing was impossible and that a college education was not reflected in speech.) That did not amount to a hill of beans.

I strongly suggest that when you do not know what you are talking about, that frame a question rather than make a statement.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 09:28 pm
@okie,
Obamacare is also known as Romneycare.

It is the product of a series of compromises.

Just as so many of us abhor Don't Ask, Don't Tell, it, too, was the product of a series of compromises. DADT is about to fall.

You see, we all have to deal with the Admiral Huff-n-Puffs in the American Right that blow indignation at everything because of their antediluvian thought processes.

Hopefully, RomneyObamaCare will be replaced by single payer in less than two decades.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 09:30 pm
@okie,
My ex-husband always said that agree to disagree nonsense. It means, "I will not brook you having your own opinion, even if you prove me wrong."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2010 10:27 pm
@plainoldme,
Got what info from the Census Bureau?
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2010 05:54 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Got what info from the Census Bureau?


That 1978 was the last year a retail worker could support a family with his/her wages.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2010 06:05 am
What irritates and frightens me most about the American health care industry is the large component known as Big Pharma. This morning, NPR presented a major story on how Big Pharma hires doctors to speak on behalf of various drugs. Many of these doctors lack board certification.

Allowed to run without restraint, the insurance industry will continue to destroy the medical profession. Certainly, most of the people making decisions within both the pharmaceuticals industry and the insurance industry are staunch Republicans . . .many Republicans are proud to be captains of industry and/or to be politically associated with the same. Many Republicans are conservatives: look how many are flocking to embrace the Tea Totalitarians.

Here is a link to the story:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130644774
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2010 09:40 am
Leftist liberals seek to secure their right to steal wealth others earn.

Rightist liberals seek to secure their right to retain wealth they earn.

Leftist Liberals think legitimizing the stealing of wealth others earn will lead to equalization of wealth and the elimination of hateful behavior. Actually neither will be achieved. Those in the government minority performing the redistribution of wealth will be the ones growing wealthier and more powerful, while their victims, the majority, as well as their beneficiaries will gradually grow poorer and less powerful.

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

America began its corruption when its Congress, its presidents, and its courts began to redistribute wealth. It increased its rate of corruption when it deemed the Constitution of the USA a "Living Constitution" (i.e., changeable by opinion instead of by its Article V amendment process). More recently it has accelerated its rate of corruption by deeming the Constiitution an "Obsolete Constitution" (i.e., no longer valid).
0 Replies
 
 

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