55
   

AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 08:34 pm
@parados,
Then answer my question about Democrat icon and hero, FDR, parados. Doing what he did, should he also have had the right to incarcerate every American citizen as he did some citizens?
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 08:36 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Then answer my question about Democrat icon and hero, FDR, parados. Doing what he did, should he also have had the right to incarcerate every American citizen as he did some citizens?

Of course not because violating the rights of anyone is a violation of the Constitution.

Now, do you agree that no ones rights should be violated or not?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 08:36 pm
@okie,
okie, FDR is long gone, and whatever happened during his time has no bearing on the world of today. Almost everything about this world has changed since FDR's time; maybe you haven't noticed. That's probably the cause of all your misunderstandings about this country.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 08:48 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Now, do you agree that no ones rights should be violated or not?

I believe exactly what the law says, that presidents have not only a right but a duty to do reasonable searches and seizures to protect the citizenry of this country in the interest of national security, which would include listening to phone conversations to suspected or known terrorist cells, which might prevent much death and destruction. I believe that would be doing his job in a responsible way. Does that violate the suspected terrorists doing the talking? Rights only go so far, parados. A criminal cannot claim his rights are violated when the police have probably cause. I have a relative in law enforcement, and for example he searches vehicles all the time, when reasonable or probable cause warrants it, and he has made many drug busts as well as finding other types of criminal activity.

How silly are your arguments going to get?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 08:51 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

okie wrote:

Then answer my question about Democrat icon and hero, FDR, parados. Doing what he did, should he also have had the right to incarcerate every American citizen as he did some citizens?

Of course not because violating the rights of anyone is a violation of the Constitution.

Now, do you agree that no ones rights should be violated or not?

Then how come Democrats never mentioned FDR as an example of precedence or historical context when they attacked Bush unmercifully for their silly Patriot Act hullabaloo? Frankly the Democrats were insulting in regard to their accusations against Bush and a bunch of hypocrites on a major scale.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 08:51 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I believe exactly what the law says, that presidents have not only a right but a duty to do reasonable searches and seizures to protect the citizenry of this country in the interest of national security,
And can you show me where the Constitution gives this right to the government to do searches for national security?
If they can do searches for national security then can they not also inter people for national security?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 08:58 pm
@parados,
okie still doesn't understand the Constitution. I wonder if he's ever read/studied it?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 09:12 pm
@parados,
Why do you think the president is the Commander in Chief, parados? Surely you are aware that most constitutional scholars believe this gives the president pretty strong authority in cases of national security. Of course there is not uniform agreement on exactly how much power or authority can be taken. I think the power of Commander in Chief is why Lincoln even got by with arresting reporters for sedition, and also why FDR got by with rounding up Japanese Americans during World War II. I think presidential duty and power for the sake of national security is common knowledge, parados, how come you seem to be oblivious to it?

By the way, didn't Clinton search a guy's house because of suspected spying? I would have to research that again, but it is common knowledge, parados.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 09:22 pm
@okie,
Your repeating of past history without including what happened during and subsequent to that period has no meaning.

What happened to AJAs during WWII was hysteria and the failure of our government. The likelihood of repeating these same mistakes will be difficult to impossible.

Your last paragraph concerning Clinton's search of a private home is meaningless; it only proves your bias as a staunch republican. Bush's wiretaps were illegal under existing laws.

It'll be nice if you can get your head out of your arse once-in-awhile to breath some fresh air.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 09:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Your repeating of past history without including what happened during and subsequent to that period has no meaning.

Past history has much meaning because it provides context to the issue, which Democrats sadly ignored.

Quote:
What happened to AJAs during WWII was hysteria and the failure of our government. The likelihood of repeating these same mistakes will be difficult to impossible.
And the Democrats hating Bush for monitoring a few telephone conversations by terrorists was really hysteria and playing politics, thats pretty much it.

Quote:
Your last paragraph concerning Clinton's search of a private home is meaningless; it only proves your bias as a staunch republican. Bush's wiretaps were illegal under existing laws.
It is not meaningless, because it shows Democrats did not care about something much more serious than what Bush did, proving they were only playing politics.

Quote:
It'll be nice if you can get your head out of your arse once-in-awhile to breath some fresh air.

If you were as decent as you want us to believe, ci, you would not talk that way and you know it. I believe you should be better than that.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 09:40 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Quote:
And the Democrats hating Bush for monitoring a few telephone conversations by terrorists was really hysteria and playing politics, that's pretty much it.


No. The Bush gang lied about Saddam's WMDs and started an illegal war against a sovereign country. That's considered a crime against humanity.
Unfortunately, the democrats and the world community failed to act.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 09:54 pm
@ican711nm,
Because your questions are stupid and no one wants to answer stupid questions. Go away. Stick your head in the sand. Oops. Sorry, I forgot that it's already in the sand.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 09:59 pm
@okie,
Are you talking about the internment of JApanese Americans? If so, please be specific.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 10:01 pm
@okie,
Quote:
presidents have not only a right but a duty to do reasonable searches and seizures to protect the citizenry of this country in the interest of national security, which would include listening to phone conversations to suspected or known terrorist cells, which might prevent much death and destruction. I believe that would be doing his job in a responsible way


That sounds like presidents must limit the rights of some citizens or control their lives, which, must mean according to the ican/okie joint definition of a liberal, that all presidents are commanded to be liberals.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 10:03 pm
@okie,
FDR could get away with rounding up Japanese Americans because people like you thought they were slant-eyed yellow-skinned people not to be trusted.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2010 10:04 pm
@okie,
When okie is cornered, he accuses others of being silly, crazy, indecent and immoral. What a male impersonator!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2010 11:02 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

FDR could get away with rounding up Japanese Americans because people like you thought they were slant-eyed yellow-skinned people not to be trusted.

Another wild and stupid accusation based upon pom's crazy mind. I will ask you again, as regards another of your silly accusations, provide even one statement or shred of evidence that I was responsible for not trusting Japanese heritage Americans during World War II or any time for that matter, or kindly provide an apology if you have one shred of decency. I know you can't because I was not even alive during World War II. Nor have I ever been a Democrat or FDR fan, nor would I ever consider being one. In other words, where I grew up they would say to you, put up or shut up.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2010 11:34 am
@okie,
okie, You are one ignorant SOB. During that time (WWII), TIME magazine published the characteristics of Chinese vs Japanese that shows their identifiers as "slant eyes" and "slithering walk." I wish I had kept that copy, but I've lost track of it from all the moving we have done, and the major renovations we have done to our home in 2008.

There are many such descriptions from that period by local newspapers owned by Hearst. He was a racist pig.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2010 11:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
Knock off the name calling, such as calling other people ignorant SOBs without one shred of evidence or reasoning, ci. I sense that you are mad because you have no good arguments or reasons for your liberal point of view. I have placed my finger on a point of liberal hypocrisy and that is too much for you to take or admit to.

For your information, as you seem to not know it, I did not work for Time Magazine, nor did I write any articles for them. I did not even know Hearst, let alone was I a friend of his or did any work for him, so what Hearst did I am innocent of. If Hearst was a racist pig, does that also make FDR, the Democrat hero and icon, also the same thing?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2010 01:18 pm
@okie,
okie, I call you an ignorant SOB, because you prove yourself every day on these boards. I explained the reasons why to back up my adjectives for people like you.

Your brain is forever damaged, and that's beyond politics and our country.

By your friends, we shall know you.

Quote:
William Randolf Hearst and Lammont Dupont

In the 1920's the Du Pont company developed and patented fuel additives such as tetraethyl lead, as well as the sulfate and sulfite processes for manufacture of pulp paper and numerous new synthetic products such as nylon, cellophane, and other plastics. At the same time other companies were developing synthetic products from renewable biomass resources--especially hemp. The hemp decorticator promised to eliminate much of the need for wood-pulp paper, thus threatening to drastically reduce the value of the vast timberlands still owned by Hearst. Ford and other companies were already promising to make every product from cannabis carbohydrates that was currently currently being made from petroleum hydrocarbons. In response, from 1935 to 1937, Du Pont lobbied the chief counsel of the Treasury Department, Herman Oliphant, for the prohibition of cannabis, assuring him that Du Pont's synthetic petrochemicals (such as urethane) could replace hemp seed oil in the marketplace.

William Randolf Hearst hated minorities, and he used his chain of newspapers to aggravate racial tensions at every opportunity. Hearst especially hated Mexicans. Hearst papers portrayed Mexicans as lazy, degenerate, and violent, and as marijuana smokers and job stealers. The real motive behind this prejudice may well have been that Hearst had lost 800,000 acres of prime timberland to the rebel Pancho Villa, suggesting that Hearst's racism was fueled by Mexican threat to his empire.

Source:

HALL OF CONSPIRACY THE MEN WHO CONSPIRED TO MAKE HEMP ILLEGAL
http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~sg85nc8p/pubenem.html, 18-Jan-2002

Back to: William Randolf Hearst


As a matter of fact, I found the TIMES magazine article, here: http://blog.timesunion.com/teaparty/times-union-uses-racist-film-to-promote-its-own-charity/661/

Quoted from the article:
Quote:
Another anonymous commenter cited Hearst, as well as the man he called a “media co-conspirator” Henry Luce, owner of Time and Life magazine, as having traditionally promoting racism in the popular culture in “overt ways” and their companies now promoting racism and cultural division, “in more subtle ways.” In particular, the Time and Life features following Pearl Harbor, including the article called How to Tell Your Friends from the Japs which gave “a few rules of thumb” when racially profiling:

There is no infallible way of telling them apart, because the same racial strains are mixed in both. Even an anthropologist, with calipers and plenty of time to measure heads, noses, shoulders, hips, is sometimes stumped.
 

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