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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND

 
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2010 09:27 pm
@ican711nm,
PArry is a fencing term. Do you want people to go after each other with swords?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 09:24 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
This non-sequitur has nothing to do with the original topic of conversation at all.

It does. You imply that the correlation 'left-wing states support right-wing states' is proof of the causation that they do so because of their respective political orientations. Which is not the case.


No, I don't imply that. I don't care what your explanation for it is, or if you have one at all. I was only pointing out the FACT that they do so.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:04 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cyclops, if I may point something out in the discussion you are having with Nero? There are liberal areas and conservative areas within red and blue states, so if you really want to analyze who the producers are vs lower producers, you would need to break it down into perhaps at least counties instead of states. For example, within California, you probably have areas that are very productive that may be conservative, while urban areas are probably more Democratic and less productive. I don't know that, but it would be my suspicion. And you will need to define productivity as well, that may be another sticking point.

Just to get into the subject of productivity within California, the San Joaquin Valley would be very productive, more productive probably than inner city areas of LA and San Francisco for example, and I am guessing would also have more conservative voters than inner cities. Also another factor, I believe people that own and operate businesses are more productive and are more likely to be conservative and Republican voters. After all, haven't we heard even Democrats accuse Repubs of being greedy business people? But it is those same people that are the producers.

So I just wanted to interject the novel idea to you, cyclops, that characterizing a state as being uniformly Democratic or Republican or uniformly productive or non-productive, that is a very inaccurate way of analyzing the issue and probably arrives at a wrong answer.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:10 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cyclops, if I may point something out in the discussion you are having with Nero? There are liberal areas and conservative areas within red and blue states, so if you really want to analyze who the producers are vs lower producers, you would need to break it down into perhaps at least counties instead of states. For example, within California, you probably have areas that are very productive that may be conservative, while urban areas are probably more Democratic and less productive. I don't know that, but it would be my suspicion. And you will need to define productivity as well, that may be another sticking point.


Uh, are you serious?

Do you think that Apple and Intel are located out in the sticks? That Silicon valley is a rugged and barren place where people ride horses to work? Do you think the Movie and Video game industries are clearing brush on the weekends? No! These extremely profitable industries are all located in the heart of CA's big cities.

Where exactly do you think the computer you are typing on, came from? Who invented it? Who invented the software? Who runs the companies that make it? Liberals in big cities in CA and WA. You should bless them every time you type something.

The country in California is for farming. We are proud of our farms, they are the best in the nation and CA produce is unparalleled, especially in winter months where stuff just doesn't grow elsewhere. But to say that they are somehow more productive than the cities is a complete falsehood.

Quote:
Just to get into the subject of productivity within California, the San Joaquin Valley would be very productive, more productive probably than inner city areas of LA and San Francisco for example


Completely and totally wrong.

Quote:
and I am guessing would also have more conservative voters than inner cities. Also another factor, I believe people that own and operate businesses are more productive and are more likely to be conservative and Republican voters.


Complete and totally wrong. Also an unprovable assertion.

Quote:
So I just wanted to interject the novel idea to you, cyclops, that characterizing a state as being uniformly Democratic or Republican or uniformly productive or non-productive, that is a very inaccurate way of analyzing the issue and probably arrives at a wrong answer.


I didn't mention anything about productivity in my posts at all. Or about any state being uniformly Democratic or Republican. This is just another stupid ******* tangent you have brought up that has nothing to do with anything we were talking about and is full of unprovable and ideologically based assertions on your part.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:14 am
@okie,
Quote:
For example, within California, you probably have areas that are very productive that may be conservative, while urban areas are probably more Democratic and less productive


We all know that nothing goes on in cities, which are 'urban areas,' as they are without office buildings, retail stores, warehouses, manufacturers, stock exchanges, insurance companies.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:17 am
@plainoldme,
Many businesses are run by liberals.

The San Joaquin Valley, which is an AMerican breadbasket, is a rather sad place. Despite all the farming that goes on there, there are no farmers' markets and few grocers. People have to rely on convenience stores and fast food restaurants which is why the Valley is home to most of California's morbidly obese.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:26 am
@plainoldme,
pom, I did not say urban areas are non-productive. Especially in manufacturing areas of cities, they can be very productive. I would guess however that some rural areas are more productive when averaged by population. In other words, the productivity might be higher per person in many rural or agricultural areas. I think it is an interesting question and I would like to see more data if anyone has any.

I agree many businesses are run by liberals, but percentage wise, I am going to stick with my theory that the majority of business owners vote Republican.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:47 am
@okie,
Quote:
I am going to stick with my theory that the majority of business owners vote Republican.


That is, most likely true and that fact may illustrate that Republicans hate working class people.

It also points to why businesses dislike the sort of regulation that would have prevented the current economic crisis. Babies all, without any sense of personal responsibility.

plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:50 am
I just wish that conservatives would rechannel their creativity. The newest conservative saw is that they are descended from the people of the Scottish Renaissance. I know what you are thinking, dear reader. Scottish Renaissance? Isn't that limited to caber tossing?

Well, apparently, the Scottish Renaissance is responsible for making white southerners bellicose and shiftless. They can't help it! It's in their genes!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:51 am
@plainoldme,
Hey! They're not all bad; they created golf.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 11:17 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
I am going to stick with my theory that the majority of business owners vote Republican.


That is, most likely true and that fact may illustrate that Republicans hate working class people.

It also points to why businesses dislike the sort of regulation that would have prevented the current economic crisis. Babies all, without any sense of personal responsibility.

pom, you would be hilarious if your posts were not so sad and silly.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 11:52 am
@okie,
pom's posts may be "sad and silly," but your posts don't include reality, facts, or common sense.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 12:19 pm
AGAIN
Quote:
Education Issues

Scores Stagnate At High Schools
Fewer than 25 percent of 2010 graduates who took the ACT college entrance exam possessed the academic skills necessary to pass entry-level courses, according to data...

WALL STREET JOURNAL
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 12:29 pm
Quote:
In just six months, on January 1, 2011, the largest tax hikes in the history of America will take effect.

They will hit families and small businesses in three great waves.

On January 1, 2011, here’s what happens... (read it to the end, so you see all three waves)...


First Wave:

Expiration of 2001 and 2003 Tax Relief

In 2001 and 2003, the GOP Congress enacted several tax cuts for investors, small business owners, and families.

These will all expire on January 1, 2011.


Personal income tax rates will rise.

The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed).

The lowest rate will rise from 10 to 15 percent.

All the rates in between will also rise.

Itemized deductions and personal exemptions will again phase out, which has the same mathematical effect as higher marginal tax rates.

The full list of marginal rate hikes is below:

The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%

The 25% bracket rises to 28%

The 28% bracket rises to 31%

The 33% bracket rises to 36%

The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%


Higher taxes on marriage and family.

The "marriage penalty" (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of income.

The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child.

The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level.

The dependent care and adoption tax credits will be cut.


The return of the Death Tax.

This year only, there is no death tax. (It’s a quirk!) For those dying on or after January 1, 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes, a business, a retirementaccount, could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones. Think of the farmers who don’t make much money, but their land, which they purchased years ago with after-tax dollars, is now worth a lot of money. Their children will have to sell the farm, which may be their livelihood, just to pay the estate tax if they don’t have the cash sitting around to pay the tax. Think about your own family’s assets. Maybe your family owns real estate, or a business that doesn’t make much money, but the building and equipment are worth $1 million. Upon their death, you can inherit the $1 million business tax free, but if they own a home, stock, cash worth $500K on top of the $1 million business, then you will owe the government $275,000 cash! That’s 55% of the value of the assets over $1 million! Do you have that kind of cash sitting around waiting to pay the estate tax?


Higher tax rates on savers and investors.

The capital gains tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 20 percent in 2011.

The dividends tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 39.6 percent in 2011.

These rates will rise another 3.8 percent in 2013.



Second Wave:

Obamacare

There are over twenty new or higher taxes in Obamacare. Several will first go into effect on January 1, 2011. They include:

The "Medicine Cabinet Tax"

Thanks to Obamacare, Americans will no longer be able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin).

The "Special Needs Kids Tax"

This provision of Obamacare imposes a cap on flexible spending accounts (FSAs) of $2500 (Currently, there is no federal government limit). There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularlycruel and onerous: parents of special needs children.

There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States , and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education.

Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington , D.C. ( National Child Research Center ) can easily exceed $14,000 per year.

Under tax rules, FSA dollars can not be used to pay for this type of special needs education.

The HSA (Health Savings Account) Withdrawal Tax Hike.

This provision of Obamacare increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.


Third Wave:

The Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) and Employer Tax Hikes

When Americans prepare to file their tax returns in January of 2011, they'll be in for a nasty surprise-the AMT won't be held harmless, and many tax relief provisions will have expired.

The major items include:

The AMT will ensnare over 28 million families, up from 4 million last year.

According to the left-leaning Tax Policy Center , Congress' failure to index the AMT will lead to an explosion of AMT taxpaying families-rising from 4 million last year to 28.5 million. These families will have to calculate their tax burdens twice, and pay taxes at the higher level. The AMT was created in 1969 to ensnare a handful of taxpayers.

Small business expensing will be slashed and 50% expensing will disappear.

Small businesses can normally expense (rather than slowly-deduct, or "depreciate") equipment purchases up to $250,000.

This will be cut all the way down to $25,000. Larger businesses can currently expense half of their purchases of equipment.

In January of 2011, all of it will have to be "depreciated."

Taxes will be raised on all types of businesses.

There are literally scores of tax hikes on business that will take place. The biggest is the loss of the "research and experimentation tax credit," but there are many, many others. Combining high marginal tax rates with the loss of this tax relief will cost jobs.

Tax Benefits for Education and Teaching Reduced.

The deduction for tuition and fees will not be available.

Tax credits for education will be limited.

Teachers will no longer be able to deduct classroom expenses.

Coverdell Education Savings Accounts will be cut.

Employer-provided educational assistance is curtailed.

The student loan interest deduction will be disallowed for hundreds of thousands of families.

Charitable Contributions from IRAs no longer allowed.

Under current law, a retired person with an IRA can contribute up to $100,000 per year directly to a charity from their IRA.

This contribution also counts toward an annual "required minimum distribution." This ability will no longer be there.


PDF Version Read more: <;; http://www.atr.org/six-months-untilbr-largest-tax-hikes-a5171#%23ixzz0sY8waPq1


And worse yet?


Now, your insurance will be INCOME on your W2's!

One of the surprises we'll find come next year, is what follows - - a little "surprise" that 99% of us had no idea was included in the "new and improved" healthcare legislation . . . the dupes, er, dopes, who backed this administration will be astonished!

Starting in 2011, (next year folks), your W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company. It does not matter if that's a private concern or governmental body of some sort.

If you're retired? So what... your gross will go up by the amount of insurance you get.

You will be required to pay taxes on a large sum of money that you have never seen. Take your tax form you just finished and see what $15,000 or $20,000 additional gross does to your tax debt. That's what you'll pay next year.

For many, it also puts you into a new higher bracket so it's even worse.


This is how the government is going to buy insurance for the15% that don't have insurance and it's only part of the tax increases.

Not believing this??? Here is a research of the summaries.....

On page 25 of 29: TITLE IX REVENUE PROVISIONS- SUBTITLE A: REVENUE OFFSET PROVISIONS-(sec. 9001,
as modified by sec. 10901) Sec.9002 "requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee the aggregate cost of applicable employer sponsored group health coverage that is excludable from the employees gross income."

- Joan Pryde is the senior tax editor for the Kiplinger letters.
- Go to Kiplingers and read about 13 tax changes that could affect you. Number 3 is what is above.


Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 12:54 pm
@ican711nm,
I guess it's worth reminding you that these tax break sunsets - the Estate tax and the personal income tax rates - were passed by Republicans who had a majority in both houses, and signed into law by Bush?

I mean, is it worth reminding you of this?

This whole paragraph is a lie:

Quote:


This year only, there is no death tax. (It’s a quirk!) For those dying on or after January 1, 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes, a business, a retirementaccount, could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones. Think of the farmers who don’t make much money, but their land, which they purchased years ago with after-tax dollars, is now worth a lot of money. Their children will have to sell the farm, which may be their livelihood, just to pay the estate tax if they don’t have the cash sitting around to pay the tax. Think about your own family’s assets. Maybe your family owns real estate, or a business that doesn’t make much money, but the building and equipment are worth $1 million. Upon their death, you can inherit the $1 million business tax free, but if they own a home, stock, cash worth $500K on top of the $1 million business, then you will owe the government $275,000 cash! That’s 55% of the value of the assets over $1 million! Do you have that kind of cash sitting around waiting to pay the estate tax?


First of all, it's not a 'quirk' that there is no Estate tax this year. This was done intentionally by Republicans, because it saves some of their richest donors tons of money to even have a SINGLE year off from the Estate tax.

Second, there are a wide variety of ways to avoid this tax, by transferring your assets to your family over time before you die. Your correspondent ignores this fact, but any tax accountant could accomplish this easily.

The Estate tax is one of the oldest taxes in America and was instituted precisely to keep Gentry from forming here. There's no reason whatsoever to oppose it, other than rank Greed.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 12:57 pm
@ican711nm,
Its pretty draconian, isn't it ican? Watch an already sick economy get sicker if this isn't fixed by a new congress pronto. Polls seem to indicate though that the Democrats could suffer an even worse defeat than in 1994. I can't wait.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 12:58 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
My son told me that Jon Stewart demonstrated that the current deficit = the bush tax cuts.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 01:01 pm
Let's see. Timothy McVeigh was an Irish Catholic who blew up a govt bldg. The widely promulgated theory is that Muslims blew up the WTC. There is a brouhaha over the proposed Muslim Cultural Center 2 blocks from the WTC site.

What would happen if Catholics wanted to build a cultural center two blocks from the site of the Murrah bldg?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 01:32 pm
@okie,
Okie,
the ODDEM (i.e., Obama Democrat Disassembling Egregious Maligners) correctly blame Bush for his mistakes, but ODDEM incorrectly blame Bush for Obama's mistakes. Obama has continually failed to rectify Bush's mistakes all the while blaming Bush for his failure to rectify Bush's mistakes.

Furthermore, the ODDEM have been making far worse mistakes than Bush ever did--huge spending increases. The ODDEM justify those failures of theirs on the grounds that what needs fixing is too difficult to fix in Obama's first term.

The ODDEM are incompetent, or frauds, or both.

It is impossible for me to believe that the ODDEM actually believe that what they are doing and trying to do will make America a better place to live. I speculate that the ODDEM think Americans ought to be punished for their past behavior. They claim America has impoverished millions of the world's people, when in fact America has rescued and made millions of the world's people far better off had America not done 90% of the things it has done. The remaining 10% of the things America has done, while harmful to the world's people as well as Americans, are no where near as harmful as the harm done by the world's dictators, and the harm in the process of being done by the ODDEM.

Okie, I recommend we both ignore ODDEM maligning, and continue to identify and explain what needs to be done, and what ODDEM failures, frauds, or both need to be corrected.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 03:23 pm
@ican711nm,
You guys are desperate and always around election time you comes out in droves and throw mud around. You guys are un-American.
 

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