God & Evil

Setanta wrote:

real life wrote:
If the 'proof' that you require is 'natural' proof of the 'supernatural', then it is an absurd request.

Again, the problem is with your assumption that something does not exist if it cannot be 'objectively' verified.

Science and the scientific method can be used only to verify a relatively small percentage of human experience.

I'm asking for any plausible proof.....If your proof is not objective, than all you offer is a subjective statement, which does not constitute proof at all.

And of course ANY thing said by a theist is disqualified:

Quote:

That human beings are routinely delusional is something i would never deny--witness the theists.

So, in essence, an atheist or agnostic would be the only person you would allow to give any support for the existence of God .

Yours is hardly an objective position, is it?

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Your lies are predictable, and your distortions are tedious. You were the one who said: "Again, the problem is with your assumption that something does not exist if it cannot be 'objectively' verified." Now, this is a lie. However, it does constitute inferential evidence that you are not prepared to provide objective evidence for the existence of your imaginary friend. If you cannot assert that your imaginary friend has objective existence, than your superstition can only be seen as subjectively held, an opinion. So it is typically and pathetically characteristic of you to attempt to warp what i have said into a claim that i "would allow" only atheists or agnostics to give support for the evidence of god. In the first place, this is not about what i would or would not "allow," i'm not omnipotent, and i have not stated to you that you can only offer certain types or categories of evidence. In the second place, if atheists or agnostic only offered subjective evidence of anything, that would not constitute proof.

Which was my point--that if you cannot offer objective evidence of something, you are left with offering subjective evidence, which is to say, your opinion, which is no evidence at all.

Try to stay on track with the discussion. You'd do much better if you didn't constantly waste everyone's time with your puerile attempts to distort what others have said.

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Most of the events of ordinary life cannot be objectively verified.

That doesn't mean they didn't happen.

You are attempting to confound the terms 'objective evidence' and 'objective existence'.

Our courts of law accept first hand accounts as testimony every day.

Sometimes it can be independently verified.

Many times it cannot.

It is not thrown out as 'no evidence at all' when it cannot be independently verified.

But keep the humor coming.

You gave us:

Quote:

i have not stated to you that you can only offer certain types or categories of evidence.

followed by:

Quote:

if you cannot offer objective evidence of something, you are left with offering subjective evidence, which is to say, your opinion, which is no evidence at all.

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I am not conflating objective existence with objective evidence. I have mentioned both, and it is neither my problem nor my fault that you are unable to think about both concepts in a single context.

What an idiot. I haven't said that you cannot offer your subjective opinions as evidence, i've just pointed that if you do, you are merely offering your opinion, which is no evidence at all.

It is hardly my fault that you are unable to offer any evidence which can reasonably be relied upon as evidence.

As for the courts, they do not allow hearsay evidence, and they don't consider what you say someone told you as "first hand evidence"--rather, they understand that that would be hearsay evidence.

Of course, if you're now saying that you have personally met your imaginary friend, have verified the reality of the existence of your imaginary friend, proving that he/she/it is not imaginary--that would be quite a bit different than offering subjective evidence, different than offering merely your opinion.

Of course, you'd then still have the burden of demonstrating that your imaginary friend truly is omnipotent, omniscient and the creator of the cosmos.

Good luck, Sunshine . . . i hope the boys in the white coats don't get ya before you come up with your "evidence."

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Justifying the impossible with the irrational is the mark of a good Christian.

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Chumly wrote:

Justifying the impossible with the irrational is the mark of a good Christian.

Then RL is a very good Christian.

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Setanta wrote:

I haven't said that you cannot offer your subjective opinions as evidence

And I haven't said that I can, but you have pretended that it was so.

Most of the events of ordinary life cannot be proved with objective evidence.

That doesn't mean they didn't happen, or that they are 'opinion'.

Your clear attempt to confound 'objective evidence' with 'objective existence' shows how desperate you have become.

Setanta wrote:

you are not prepared to provide objective evidence for the existence of your imaginary friend. If you cannot assert that your imaginary friend has objective existence, than your superstition can only be seen as subjectively held, an opinion.

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real life wrote:

And I haven't said that I can, but you have pretended that it was so.

You need to express yourself clearly, if you expect to get a sensible answer.

Quote:

Most of the events of ordinary life cannot be proved with objective evidence.

That doesn't mean they didn't happen, or that they are 'opinion'.

Are you now attempting to suggest that your imaginary friend is an event, as opposed to a sentient entity? How can one discuss anything with you if you constantly attempt to change the terms of debate? Once again, attempts at corollary between the ordinary events of life and the extraordinary claim that your imaginary friend exists are doomed to failure. Those who make extraordinary claims have the burden of proving those claims. You just constantly attempt to weasel out of your rhetorical responsibilities. If you can provide no plausible evidence for your claim, there is no reason to take your claim seriously, and to accept the claim as a premise of discussion.

Quote:

Your clear attempt to confound 'objective evidence' with 'objective existence' shows how desperate you have become.

Setanta wrote:
you are not prepared to provide objective evidence for the existence of your imaginary friend. If you cannot assert that your imaginary friend has objective existence, than your superstition can only be seen as subjectively held, an opinion.

I have already pointed out that i have used both terms, and that it is certainly not my fault if you are unable to understand that in context, or are unwilling to acknowledge that i have a right to use both terms, because it then makes your rhetorical task more difficult than you care to deal with. If the existence of your imaginary friend is not just simply subjective, not simply a matter of your opinion, then you are asserting that your imaginary friend has an objective existence. In that case, it is entirely reasonable to ask for objective evidence.

As always, i am not responsible for, nor is my argument invalidated by your inability to either express yourself clearly in English, or to understand plain English when you read it.

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God created evil in the first place, how could or why would a supposedly supreme being create something that would literally drive him up the wall? Why test everyone all the time, surely testing is evil. I think the simple fact of things is religion is a load of ...........

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What nonsense, BDV. God didn't create evil.

Just as when the light is covered you experience darkness, so when you turn away from God there is evil.

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I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

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BDV wrote:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

Just incase you didn't notice it, Isaiah 45:7 is part of the bible and it says quite clearly that the good old god guy created evil, cause he is the lord and he does these things.

Real Life you need to brush up on your bible

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Define good and evil, thanks.

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RL says:

Quote:

What nonsense, BDV. God didn't create evil.

BDV replies:

Quote:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

and:

Quote:

Just incase you didn't notice it, Isaiah 45:7 is part of the bible and it says quite clearly that the good old god guy created evil, cause he is the lord and he does these things.

Real Life you need to brush up on your bible

Trying to have a conversation with RL is really not my cup of tea but if you're into that sort of humor you have got to admit RL can really provide the belly laughs.

Stay tuned to find outhmmm
a) why that's what the bible says but not what it means
b) why your taking the quote out of context
c) why your post is non-sequitor
d) why your quote is an irrelevant diversion from what the thread is about
e) that RL has temporarily abandoned this thread until (hopefully) everyone forgets about BDV's post

as always, thanks to RL, I am ROFLMAO Laughing

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evil is an action, thought, or event that causes suffering, or intends to cause suffering.

good is the opposite.

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rockpie wrote:

evil is an action, thought, or event that causes suffering, or intends to cause suffering.

How about when Sunni extremists whip themselves on the back during religious festivals to show devotion to their religion, is that evil?

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Would it be evil to beat a masochist? Would you first have to determine what would cause them more suffering beating them or refusing to beat them?

Is it evil to cause suffering to your enemy? What if you are a Marine and your enemy is a "terrorist"? What if you are a"terrorist" and your enemy is a Marine? Does it help your cause if you feel the Marine is the "terrorist"?

It would seem to me that trying to hold an absolutist position on good and evil would make rational answers to questions like these a bit problematic.

RL will be by to let everyone know I am wrong. It will allow him to ignore BDV's problematic post if nothing else. Cool

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Here, let me throw "real life" into a frenzy:

Neither good nor evil have an existence outside the mind of those who allege that they perceive good and evil. They are subjective concepts.

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BDV wrote:

BDV wrote:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

Just incase you didn't notice it, Isaiah 45:7 is part of the bible and it says quite clearly that the good old god guy created evil, cause he is the lord and he does these things.

Real Life you need to brush up on your bible

Ok, I'll play along for a bit.

BDV, do you think that the Bible should be taken literally?

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Ooooo . . . that's a keeper.

So, "real life," if one is not to take the bobble literally, that rather shoots all of your young earth creationist horseshit in the ass, n'est-ce pas?

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