Waterboarding

Yes. Do you?

0 Replies

I consider it to be torture.

Other methods have proven to be very useful in collecting hard information without resorting to inquisition-style tactics. More importantly, however, we need to maintain a sense of civility in all things we do if we are to demonstrate any kind of superiority in the world.

0 Replies

Agreed, but I cannot help noting that as with nations as with people, I prefer the ones who want to be friends with me over the ones who "want to demonstrate superiority" all the goddam time.

0 Replies

contrex wrote:

Agreed, but I cannot help noting that as with nations as with people, I prefer the ones who want to be friends with me over the ones who "want to demonstrate superiority" all the goddam time.

I guess my point was that our government wishes to project itself throughout the world in a positive light as an example of "freedom and democracy" in action. There was a time when this was the case. We were the example that other nations wanted to follow. That time has passed and our government is generally distrusted and even despised by other countries because of our behavior.

0 Replies

From Shinola wrote:

I guess my point was that our government wishes to project itself throughout the world in a positive light as an example of "freedom and democracy" in action.

Like most governments...

Quote:

There was a time when this was the case. We were the example that other nations wanted to follow.

Except for slavery, Tammany Hall, Tennessee lynch mobs, segregation, church bombings in Selma, the KKK, McCarthy, CIA destabilisation of democracies, the fake Gulf Of Tonkin Incident, napalm, My Lai, Tricky Dicky, Mayor Daley, fake WMD stories, rendition flights, Gitmo (which brings us up to date)...

Quote:

That time has passed

When was that time exactly?

Quote:

and our government is generally distrusted and even despised by other countries because of our behavior.

You seem to have the notion that this is a new thing. It isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I know how you feel & I see where you're coming from, but a necessary step in your journey towards enlightenment is to rid yourself of all illusions.

0 Replies

I promise you I harbor no illusions. I'm saying our government harbors illusions about it's standing in the world. Slavery, etc... are parts of our history we can't hide from but it doesn't change one spec of what we do today or try to achieve tomorrow. All you can do is acknowledge, educate and move on.

0 Replies

I remember hearing about the debate wether waterboarding was a form of torture.
I thought it must be harmless, since it sounds like surfboarding, and then one day I wikkied it.......

and holy crap'!

apparently it was invented by the Spanish Catholic church during the inquisition.

(People say the church is against science an inventiveness, well with all the methods of torture they came up with we may have to think again! Razz

)

Check out the link to help you get familiar with what water boarding entails........

Quote:

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back, with the head inclined downward, and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages.[1] Through forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the process of drowning and is made to believe that death is imminent.[2] In contrast to merely submerging the head face-forward, waterboarding almost immediately elicits the gag reflex.[3] Although waterboarding does not always cause lasting physical damage, it carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death.[4] The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

0 Replies

It is reasonable to conclude that any suffering torture would confess to things they havent even done just to make the pain go away.

So if its the truth you want torture doesnt go well with that.

But if you want someone to accept an accusation then it could have its 'uses.'

On the subject of civility, if we are still doing what the inquisition was doing in the dark ages, we can hardly claim to be a morally upright society.

0 Replies

Has anyone drowned?

0 Replies

House sustains waterboarding veto
By Sean Lengell
March 12, 2008

The House yesterday sustained a White House veto on an intelligence bill that called for banning the CIA from using the interrogation technique known as waterboarding.

Republicans said the measure would have significantly compromised national security. Democrats, who crafted the bill, said torture is not an effective intelligence-gathering method and is morally wrong.

The measure to override the veto was defeated by a vote of 225-188, falling about 50 votes short of the two-thirds majority needed to pass. Five Republicans voted to overturn President Bush's veto, while three Democrats voted to sustain it.

"This bill is just the latest example of the complete and utter failure of this Democratic leadership in the House to give the intelligence community the tools that it needs to protect the American people and our allies from radical jihadists," said Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, the ranking Republican on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080312/NATION/725376514/-1/RSS_NATION_POLITICS

0 Replies

H2O_MAN wrote:

Has anyone drowned?

This makes me stop for a little ~ uhhhhhh, relevance bothers me. You are wanting felony murder 2 over felony torture in the 1st degree? AM I correct?

Sorry, I get it now, you are just kinky about water stuff!

0 Replies

Quote:

"This bill is just the latest example of the complete and utter failure of this Democratic leadership in the House to give the intelligence community the tools that it needs to protect the American people and our allies from radical jihadists," said Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, the ranking Republican on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

More rubbish from Crazy Pete.

In just 60 years, America went from fighting Nazis to being Nazis! What are you guys gonna try next? Stalinism?

0 Replies

Quote:

America went from fighting Nazis to being Nazis!

Please, please ~ guilt by association is not fair in any language. Only about 30% of America is fascist. To bad they are currently in power.

0 Replies

Billw
30 Percent of the soup sipping super power citizens
had made more havoc around the globe than any criminals.

0 Replies

That is not only super power, it should read,

Quote:

30 Percent of the soup sipping ultraConservative citizens
had made more havoc around the globe than any criminals.

FTFY

No matter what country, what religion, what gender, what social affliation - the political lineage is ultraConservative.

0 Replies

I had not used the word "Ultra conservative."
Be nice to quote and twist not the text.
Thanks

0 Replies

I did the changing and didn't hide behind or twist it. Everything is out in the open, I maintain transparency. Do you have any problems with the wording I have changed it too?

To translate - super powers are not the only problem in the world, but the ultra conservatives in the entire world are, whether it be the USA, Russia, Palestine, Australia, Iraq, Iran, India, Pakistan or wherever!

Waterboarding

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know