oil company profits tax

flaja wrote:

And just how would gas have been any cheaper under Gore?

BTW: You should compare Al Gore's mansion in Tennessee with George W. Bush's ranch in Texas. Bush, unlike Gore, has incorporated many environmental conservation techniques into his ranch.

I've know about the Gore/Bush housing for a long time. I always thought it was ridiculous that Bush is running around denying climate change, pushing back environmental laws and doing everything for his oil buddies while laughing all the way back to his eco-friendly ranch. If he brought this kind of thinking to all Americans I might be able to respect him. I never defend politicians who do stupid things, and I think Gore should get his housing act together. Now Dick Cheney is another problem all together, no one can accuse him of being a hypocrite - he's an energy pig and proud of it. His VP office electrical bills are on-line if you want to see where your tax money is going.

Why oil is so high? It doesn't take a genus to figure out that if we have to divert millions of barrels of our refined oil products, such as gasoline and diesel fuel, to fight a war, less of the product will find its way to the American consumer. It's not just Asia that is creating the shortage, it's our own expanded need overseas. We would not be in Iraq if anyone else had been president (Republican or Democrat) and all the money being poured into creating Freedom and Democracy could have been used to make this country more energy independent of the Middle East. Gore would certainly have been busy creating incentives for Americans to cut back on their usage.

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engineer wrote:

That's an excellent idea. The first corridor to set up would be I-95. I think a high speed train line from Miami to Boston would access a significant portion of the population. Unfortunately, right now the governments (both state and federal) don't have the dollars to pursue something like that. This leads back to the "what is the right tax rate" argument. In order for the government to make the kind of infrastructure investments required, the tax rate must be higher.

I'm partly with Huckabee on this one. He says that we should use the economic stimulus money that Congress is about to waste to add lanes to I-95 so we could stimulate our economy rather than China's economy (due to imports). I'd use the existing lanes for a railroad rather than adding more auto traffic lanes; it is a fundamental axiom of urban planning that you will never have enough roads for auto traffic since the more roads you build the more cars you get to use them.

The federal/state government already owns the land that makes up I-95 so the largest cost is already met.

I don't know how you would go about putting down a rail line over the I-95- whether or not we'd have to take up the existing paved surface or simply put rails over the existing pavement. I would venture that the best option would some sort of mag-lev train, but I'm not sure what kind of track that would involve. The type of track and whether or not it can be put down on the existing pavement will determine what American industries the project would stimulate (steel, concrete, etc.).

And then once the rail line is in place we could give contracts to Ford and GM to make busses and railcars rather than personal automobiles. This would save these two companies from bankruptcy.

Furthermore, it isn't that the government doesn't have the money to do this, but rather the government's spending priorities are wrong.

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Green Witch wrote:

Why oil is so high? It doesn't take a genus to figure out that if we have to divert millions of barrels of our refined oil products, such as gasoline and diesel fuel, to fight a war, less of the product will find its way to the American consumer.

Please. If this were true, we'd have rationing the way we did during World War II. The oil that our military uses is likely a drop in the bucket compared to what Americans put into their SUVs and pickup trucks.

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flaja wrote:

And then once the rail line is in place we could give contracts to Ford and GM to make busses and railcars rather than personal automobiles.

Here's a good read on high speed trains. The big supplier of trains is GE. I think GE already has high speed engines available.

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flaja wrote:

And then once the rail line is in place we could give contracts to Ford and GM to make busses and railcars rather than personal automobiles.

flaja you're a hoot. Particularly about GM. Talk about robbing Paul to pay the perpetrator of Pauls problems look up the General Motors Streetcar Conspiracy link provided. Talk about fool me once---or as GWB was prone to say

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An Aside
Engineer, thanks for the maglev/supertrain link. In the BosWash corridor high speed trains would be faster than air traffic when you consider that intercity transportation would be from urban center to urban center, rather that the boonie suburban airport to airport that presently exists. That's because the consumer traveller breakeven should include ground transportation to and from the airports. Maglev is a promising high speed alternative.

On another but similar problem is freight. More than half of all intercity freight is now handled by truck. Good old low speed trains are far more efficient in terms of ton-miles in moving freight. The problem comes in local delivery--perhaps it would also be wise to encourage intercity railroad freight transportation.

Rap

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flaja

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Soybeans can take nitrogen out of the air and thus don't require as much fertilizer as other crops do and they can be an integral part of any crop rotation plan. Growing soy to make diesel fuel is actually good for the environment.

Soybeans are a heavy feeder of K and P. ALso , they are now mostly geneng crops that are "Roundup ready".
The hauling of soybeans to a esterification plant and press isnt just a short hop around the block. The farms and refineries will, by nature be far apart because farmland can be rotated easire than can a refinery.

If we located ester plants near the Green River wed have a complete product line and , because the retorting is underground, we can use the geothermal heat from Yellowstone caldera to act as a heat source.

I like the BoWash RR though. I always travel the ACella when I go from Wilmington Del to DC. Remember though, in orser to max the efficiency, the Acella should only stop every 45 miles or so, Its not efficient as alocal.

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and the material left over after oil is pressed out of some crops can be used as animal feed so any disruption to our food supply won't be all that great.

This works with ethanol but not so much with diesel. You have a reaction that is initiated by NAOH and then methyl alcohol or phenolics. The soybean would need a great deal of polishing. In ethanol, the sugars are converted and what remains is protein and fibre.

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Vegetable oil can go directly from the press to the fuel tank with just slight modifications to the engine

ACtually, because the veggy oil can be burned by compression, it can be used as a fuel, but you will learn the word "GUNK" rapidly. The part thats left is a glycerine polymer. WHo knows, maybe we can create life.
I dont know how these straight "french fry" burners work in the North because they can gel up real good. We usually add an alcohol or ether to the batches of biodiesel weve made, and its not that really cold in Pa.

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Currently the new fuel mandate is simply ridiculous.

As we all know ethanol is counterproductive anyway.

Supply chain wise it has to be trucked to pipelined fuel terminals and pumped into tanks specially installed for ethanol because there are only so many tanks traditionally located at terminals. Trucking the ethanol to terminals and other remote tank sites for splash blending causes even more fossil fuel use and the effects therein. Then splash blending to make 'gasahol' requires the carriers to have to load two different products and often at two different locations.

To convert a terminal for safe and normal daily throughput operations it costs oil companies around three million dollars. On the refinery end more pressure is piled on to an already strained facility because it's one more 'formula' of fuel that has to be concocted. Terminals which have been converted to ethanol(E10 - 10 % ethanol splash blending) are sent 84 octane(regular grade) gasoline instead of 87...the 10% ethanol blend brings it to the required 87 octane.

There won't/can't be enough ethanol produced/distributed to meet the mandates anyway.

And on biodiesel the price is 80-90 cents higher than regular diesel so many commercial consumers have switched back to regular diesel.

Nothing about any of it is smart or practical. Mandate or no mandate all these negative reports about the impact of ethanol will sooner than later spell it's demise. In the meantime the industry is jumping through insane hoops to what end?

At the retail end retailers have to have their tanks cleaned($300-1000) per tank and install special filters on the dispenser($30 per dispenser) because ethanol phases with water and cleans various deposits which are attached to tank/pipe walls.

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farmerman wrote:

Soybeans are a heavy feeder of K and P.

Can you document this? It is something that I've never heard before. I routinely grow green beans and peas in my garden and they don't take much fertilizer at all; I wouldn't think soybeans would be greatly different.

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ALso , they are now mostly geneng crops that are "Roundup ready".

This is the fault of the farm industry, not the crop. You could likely grow a less hybridized variety using organic methods.

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The hauling of soybeans to a esterification plant and press isnt just a short hop around the block. The farms and refineries will, by nature be far apart because farmland can be rotated easire than can a refinery.

You make it sound like crops are rotated from state to state. Certain crops do best in certain regions because of soil and climate conditions and processing facilities are located close by for economic reasons. As it stands now soybeans must be grown close to processing facilities or there wouldn't be so much soy oil in our food supply. If existing soy crops had to be trucked long distances to be processed, I doubt that the transportation costs would make the crop profitable so the existing crops wouldn't be grown.

However, there are likely regions where soy could be grown but isn't grown now because other crops are more profitable or the land is not cultivated at all because there is no market for what could be grown. If these regions were to be planted in soy, the processing plants would naturally follow so farm to processing transportation wouldn't be a problem.

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If we located ester plants near the Green River wed have a complete product line and , because the retorting is underground, we can use the geothermal heat from Yellowstone caldera to act as a heat source.

So you basically want an oil refinery in Yellowstone? Won't happen; too much environmental impact. Even if no real damage is done to the environment, such industrial activity would ruin the park as a tourist destination.

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I like the BoWash RR though. I always travel the ACella when I go from Wilmington Del to DC. Remember though, in orser to max the efficiency, the Acella should only stop every 45 miles or so, Its not efficient as alocal.

You could put local commuter stations at the existing interstate exits without disrupting rail traffic. I don't know that I-95 passes through many downtown districts, but if local mass transit were good enough the interstate trains wouldn't need to go downtown.

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This works with ethanol but not so much with diesel. You have a reaction that is initiated by NAOH and then methyl alcohol or phenolics. The soybean would need a great deal of polishing.

Why? My understanding is that soy oil can go directly from the seed to the fuel tank as long as the engine is slightly modified. You don't have to process unused vegetable oil in order to use it as diesel fuel. You may be thinking of biodiesel, which is vegetable oil that has been used in cooking. This waste oil has to be filtered, and processing it with lye and methanol just makes it work better as a fuel. Unused oil does not need to be processed; just squeeze the seed.

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The part thats left is a glycerine polymer.

Processing vegetable oil, either used or un-used, with lye and methanol will remove the glycerin- which can be used in cosmetics and explosives.

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I dont know how these straight "french fry" burners work in the North because they can gel up real good. We usually add an alcohol or ether to the batches of biodiesel weve made, and its not that really cold in Pa.

I think the usual route is to install a devise on the engine that preheats the biodiesel. But most of the country for most of the year likely wouldn't have this problem.

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biodiesel is cheaper than regular diesel by far if you make it yourself. The "bucket chemistry" is ridiculously easy. The feedstock is getting harder to get though.

Theres a process called JP-90 which is able to make diesel and /or jet fuel from coal by insitur retorting. The neat thing here is that theres a bazillion cubic yards of coal left in Pa, Wva, Ohio, Ill etc that are considered "mined out" because the beds are too thin or the pillars are left or the coalfiled encroaches too close and shallow to popultaed areas. In situ retorting with refilling with "plaster sludge from acid mine streams is a way to make a product and reclaim the environmneta at the same time.

I agree that interfereing with the food chain is stupid and energy inefficient.

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Brand X wrote:

There won't/can't be enough ethanol produced/distributed to meet the mandates anyway.

My understanding is that all of Brazil's auto fuel is ethanol, but they use plants other than corn to make it so the energy needed to process the crops isn't as great as it is for corn. But just how has Brazil managed to do away with gasoline? Does Brazil have more stringent fuel efficiency standards, or a mass transit system that is better than anything America has so they don't need as much auto fuel per capita as Americans do? How can Brazilians do away with gasoline, if Americans are so dependent on it?

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And on biodiesel the price is 80-90 cents higher than regular diesel so many commercial consumers have switched back to regular diesel.

Can you document this? And wouldn't the cost of vegetable diesel fuel come down if farmers grew more vegetable oil?

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Nothing about any of it is smart or practical. Mandate or no mandate all these negative reports about the impact of ethanol will sooner than later spell it's demise. In the meantime the industry is jumping through insane hoops to what end?

Won't happen as long as Iowa has the first election contest every 4 years.

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biodiesel is cheaper than regular diesel by far if you make it yourself.

I'm sure you aren't suggesting it but....making ones one fuel is not a viable answer.

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And on biodiesel the price is 80-90 cents higher than regular diesel so many commercial consumers have switched back to regular diesel.

Can you document this?

Just call your local oil distributor and get a quote.

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Brand X wrote:

I'm sure you aren't suggesting it but....making ones one fuel is not a viable answer.

Some people are making their own biodiesel all the time. Granted, this won't be an option for general use because we'd quickly run out of waste vegetable oil. But diy vegetable oil for diesel fuel is a very viable option for farmers who rely on large numbers of diesel engines.

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Just call your local oil distributor and get a quote.

Considering that I've always heard that biodiesel is fairly cheap to make (assuming you can get the waste oil for free) and vegetable oil fuels have more energy content per volume than petro-diesel has, I gather that you cannot document your claim.

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Quote:

Considering that I've always heard that biodiesel is fairly cheap to make (assuming you can get the waste oil for free) and vegetable oil fuels have more energy content per volume than petro-diesel has, I gather that you cannot document your claim.

I'm not referring to mickey mouse concoctions that people make at home, I'm talking about soybean based biodiesel that most suppliers distribute in the real world....because it's most abundant Rolling Eyes

If you call your local oil supplier to order a 7300 gallon load of biodiesel for your fleet of trucks, for example, they aren't going to run around town and see how many restaurants they can scavenge waste from. Chicken fat etc. based diesel might be a bit cheaper...but if I'm the guy making it I'm going to get all I can for it...though I might keep it 10-20 cents cheaper than soy based to keep it attractive. Just because it mat be cheaper to make doesn't mean you leave all the profit on the table. In the end both formulas will cost more than regular diesel in the market place.

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Quote:

I'm sure you aren't suggesting it but....making ones one fuel is not a viable answer

I started a thread last year about making biodiesel for our company trucks. We have been making about 100 gallons every two weeks and it works fine. We even have a market for the glycerine (candle makers and soap makers want it)
Its not "mickey mouse" becasue the entire procedure is quite simple when you start with fatty acids. We have one technician who makes the fuel and collects tha fatty acids . We filter the raw grease after we warm it up (using an immersion heater) Then we react it with NAOh and Methyl alcohol to crete the ester. All this is done with the help of a process called titration, where the type of fat is matched to the methoxylation chemicals. Now we use a phenolphthalei dye which often gives a color like ag diesel .

The neat thing about our biodiesel is that it starts much better in winter time, no load on the glo plugs.

Soyben based biodiesel is a joke, it costs more than regular diesel and requires more handling than french fry oil. But they both make the same product, a complex ester

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farmerman wrote:

Quote:
I'm sure you aren't suggesting it but....making ones one fuel is not a viable answer

I started a thread last year about making biodiesel for our company trucks. We have been making about 100 gallons every two weeks and it works fine. We even have a market for the glycerine (candle makers and soap makers want it)
Its not "mickey mouse" becasue the entire procedure is quite simple when you start with fatty acids. We have one technician who makes the fuel and collects tha fatty acids . We filter the raw grease after we warm it up (using an immersion heater) Then we react it with NAOh and Methyl alcohol to crete the ester. All this is done with the help of a process called titration, where the type of fat is matched to the methoxylation chemicals. Now we use a phenolphthalei dye which often gives a color like ag diesel .

The neat thing about our biodiesel is that it starts much better in winter time, no load on the glo plugs.

Soyben based biodiesel is a joke, it costs more than regular diesel and requires more handling than french fry oil. But they both make the same product, a complex ester

How many people and how much time does it take to make 100 gallons?

Have you figured actual cost including labor etc.?

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Brand X wrote:

I'm not referring to mickey mouse concoctions that people make at home, I'm talking about soybean based biodiesel that most suppliers distribute in the real world....because it's most abundant

Again, what is your documentation? I've seen cost estimates for diy biodiesel that are as low as $0.50 per gallon. The average retail cost for some bio-petro blends, including all taxes, is 12 cents less per gallon when compared to 100% petro-diesel, while the B20 blend costs the same as petro-diesel. Only B99 and B100 cost more than petro-diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Availability_and_prices), even 100% biodiesel can cost as little as $1.60 a gallon in some places (http://www.mauigreenenergy.org/biodieselfaqs.htm).

Factor in the greater energy content per gallon of biodiesel compared to petro-diesel and the operating cost of biodiesel is lower than petrodiesel.

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If you call your local oil supplier to order a 7300 gallon load of biodiesel for your fleet of trucks, for example, they aren't going to run around town and see how many restaurants they can scavenge waste from. Chicken fat etc. based diesel might be a bit cheaper...but if I'm the guy making it I'm going to get all I can for it...though I might keep it 10-20 cents cheaper than soy based to keep it attractive. Just because it mat be cheaper to make doesn't mean you leave all the profit on the table. In the end both formulas will cost more than regular diesel in the market place.

When you are comparing prices are you comparing the cost of petro-diesel with the cost of petro-bio blend or petro-vegetable blend? Such blends would naturally reflect the high cost of the petro product, but a diesel engine will run on straight bio or vegetable oil. There is no reason to use a blend that I know of. And just how much of the retail cost of biodiesel is tax? Granted, you cannot legally make biodiesel for your own use without paying the taxes that would be levied on petro-diesel, but these taxes shouldn't be factored into the production costs when you want to want to compare costs. Furthermore, adding fuel taxes (that supposedly pay for roads) onto biodiesel is the perfect way to insure that the retail cost of biodiesel remains in line with petro costs and thereby insuring that the oil companies can maintain their monopoly on the U.S. auto fuel market.

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farmerman wrote:

Quote:
I'm sure you aren't suggesting it but....making ones one fuel is not a viable answer

I started a thread last year about making biodiesel for our company trucks. We have been making about 100 gallons every two weeks and it works fine. We even have a market for the glycerine (candle makers and soap makers want it)
Its not "mickey mouse" becasue the entire procedure is quite simple when you start with fatty acids. We have one technician who makes the fuel and collects tha fatty acids . We filter the raw grease after we warm it up (using an immersion heater) Then we react it with NAOh and Methyl alcohol to crete the ester. All this is done with the help of a process called titration, where the type of fat is matched to the methoxylation chemicals. Now we use a phenolphthalei dye which often gives a color like ag diesel .

The neat thing about our biodiesel is that it starts much better in winter time, no load on the glo plugs.

Soyben based biodiesel is a joke, it costs more than regular diesel and requires more handling than french fry oil. But they both make the same product, a complex ester

Isn't soybean oil one of the most commonly used cooking oils? If soy is so hard to work with, how can you make biodiesel out of it so easily?

BTW: Would the titration be necessary if you were not using waste oil from different sources? If you had a restaurant that only uses one type of oil and this restaurant is your only source of waste oil, would you have to worry about titration?

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flaja wrote:

Brand X wrote:
I'm not referring to mickey mouse concoctions that people make at home, I'm talking about soybean based biodiesel that most suppliers distribute in the real world....because it's most abundant

Again, what is your documentation? I've seen cost estimates for diy biodiesel that are as low as $0.50 per gallon. The average retail cost for some bio-petro blends, including all taxes, is 12 cents less per gallon when compared to 100% petro-diesel, while the B20 blend costs the same as petro-diesel. Only B99 and B100 cost more than petro-diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Availability_and_prices), even 100% biodiesel can cost as little as $1.60 a gallon in some places (http://www.mauigreenenergy.org/biodieselfaqs.htm).

Factor in the greater energy content per gallon of biodiesel compared to petro-diesel and the operating cost of biodiesel is lower than petrodiesel.

Quote:
If you call your local oil supplier to order a 7300 gallon load of biodiesel for your fleet of trucks, for example, they aren't going to run around town and see how many restaurants they can scavenge waste from. Chicken fat etc. based diesel might be a bit cheaper...but if I'm the guy making it I'm going to get all I can for it...though I might keep it 10-20 cents cheaper than soy based to keep it attractive. Just because it mat be cheaper to make doesn't mean you leave all the profit on the table. In the end both formulas will cost more than regular diesel in the market place.

When you are comparing prices are you comparing the cost of petro-diesel with the cost of petro-bio blend or petro-vegetable blend? Such blends would naturally reflect the high cost of the petro product, but a diesel engine will run on straight bio or vegetable oil. There is no reason to use a blend that I know of. And just how much of the retail cost of biodiesel is tax? Granted, you cannot legally make biodiesel for your own use without paying the taxes that would be levied on petro-diesel, but these taxes shouldn't be factored into the production costs when you want to want to compare costs. Furthermore, adding fuel taxes (that supposedly pay for roads) onto biodiesel is the perfect way to insure that the retail cost of biodiesel remains in line with petro costs and thereby insuring that the oil companies can maintain their monopoly on the U.S. auto fuel market.

Today's price for soybean biodesiel is around $5.00 per gallon. Again call a oil supplier and get real quotes to bypass all the misinformation you are finding.

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Brand X wrote:

flaja wrote:
Brand X wrote:
I'm not referring to mickey mouse concoctions that people make at home, I'm talking about soybean based biodiesel that most suppliers distribute in the real world....because it's most abundant

Again, what is your documentation? I've seen cost estimates for diy biodiesel that are as low as $0.50 per gallon. The average retail cost for some bio-petro blends, including all taxes, is 12 cents less per gallon when compared to 100% petro-diesel, while the B20 blend costs the same as petro-diesel. Only B99 and B100 cost more than petro-diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Availability_and_prices), even 100% biodiesel can cost as little as $1.60 a gallon in some places (http://www.mauigreenenergy.org/biodieselfaqs.htm).

Factor in the greater energy content per gallon of biodiesel compared to petro-diesel and the operating cost of biodiesel is lower than petrodiesel.

Quote:
If you call your local oil supplier to order a 7300 gallon load of biodiesel for your fleet of trucks, for example, they aren't going to run around town and see how many restaurants they can scavenge waste from. Chicken fat etc. based diesel might be a bit cheaper...but if I'm the guy making it I'm going to get all I can for it...though I might keep it 10-20 cents cheaper than soy based to keep it attractive. Just because it mat be cheaper to make doesn't mean you leave all the profit on the table. In the end both formulas will cost more than regular diesel in the market place.

When you are comparing prices are you comparing the cost of petro-diesel with the cost of petro-bio blend or petro-vegetable blend? Such blends would naturally reflect the high cost of the petro product, but a diesel engine will run on straight bio or vegetable oil. There is no reason to use a blend that I know of. And just how much of the retail cost of biodiesel is tax? Granted, you cannot legally make biodiesel for your own use without paying the taxes that would be levied on petro-diesel, but these taxes shouldn't be factored into the production costs when you want to want to compare costs. Furthermore, adding fuel taxes (that supposedly pay for roads) onto biodiesel is the perfect way to insure that the retail cost of biodiesel remains in line with petro costs and thereby insuring that the oil companies can maintain their monopoly on the U.S. auto fuel market.

Today's price for soybean biodesiel is around $5.00 per gallon. Again call a oil supplier and get real quotes to bypass all the misinformation you are finding.

Are you talking about one supplier in one locale? What about everywhere else? And why are you still talking about retail price when I am talking about production price?

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flaja wrote:

Brand X wrote:
flaja wrote:
Brand X wrote:
I'm not referring to mickey mouse concoctions that people make at home, I'm talking about soybean based biodiesel that most suppliers distribute in the real world....because it's most abundant

Again, what is your documentation? I've seen cost estimates for diy biodiesel that are as low as $0.50 per gallon. The average retail cost for some bio-petro blends, including all taxes, is 12 cents less per gallon when compared to 100% petro-diesel, while the B20 blend costs the same as petro-diesel. Only B99 and B100 cost more than petro-diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Availability_and_prices), even 100% biodiesel can cost as little as $1.60 a gallon in some places (http://www.mauigreenenergy.org/biodieselfaqs.htm).

Factor in the greater energy content per gallon of biodiesel compared to petro-diesel and the operating cost of biodiesel is lower than petrodiesel.

Quote:
If you call your local oil supplier to order a 7300 gallon load of biodiesel for your fleet of trucks, for example, they aren't going to run around town and see how many restaurants they can scavenge waste from. Chicken fat etc. based diesel might be a bit cheaper...but if I'm the guy making it I'm going to get all I can for it...though I might keep it 10-20 cents cheaper than soy based to keep it attractive. Just because it mat be cheaper to make doesn't mean you leave all the profit on the table. In the end both formulas will cost more than regular diesel in the market place.

When you are comparing prices are you comparing the cost of petro-diesel with the cost of petro-bio blend or petro-vegetable blend? Such blends would naturally reflect the high cost of the petro product, but a diesel engine will run on straight bio or vegetable oil. There is no reason to use a blend that I know of. And just how much of the retail cost of biodiesel is tax? Granted, you cannot legally make biodiesel for your own use without paying the taxes that would be levied on petro-diesel, but these taxes shouldn't be factored into the production costs when you want to want to compare costs. Furthermore, adding fuel taxes (that supposedly pay for roads) onto biodiesel is the perfect way to insure that the retail cost of biodiesel remains in line with petro costs and thereby insuring that the oil companies can maintain their monopoly on the U.S. auto fuel market.

Today's price for soybean biodesiel is around $5.00 per gallon. Again call a oil supplier and get real quotes to bypass all the misinformation you are finding.

Are you talking about one supplier in one locale? What about everywhere else? And why are you still talking about retail price when I am talking about production price?

No I called every supplier in the US. Rolling Eyes

I originally was talking about suppliers cost..which is again about $5.00 per gallon currently.

Even regular formula gasoline and diesel doesn't cost the same in every area.

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oil company profits tax

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