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The Classic Example of Barstool Economics

 
 
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:55 am
Saw this in the paper yesterday. Simplistic, of course. But like all good parables, it illustrates an important point.


Quote:

Suppose that every day, 10 men go out for beer and the bill for all 10 comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The 10 men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."

Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?"

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100 percent savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33 percent savings).

The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28 percent savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25 percent savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22 percent savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16 percent savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"'Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got 10 times more than I!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.




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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,809 • Replies: 36
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:18 am
Ridiculous.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:19 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Ridiculous.


How so, gus???
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:23 am
There has to be a line drawn. Following that logic, would you be happy if a dozen or so people controlled 95 per cent of the world's wealth and threw the others a bone on occasion, just to keep them happy?

Screw the rich. I say we light the torches and storm the gates.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:25 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
a dozen or so people controlled 95 per cent of the world's wealth and threw the others a bone on occasion, just to keep them happy?



Laughing

I thought that was how america is set up right now
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:26 am
It's getting there.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:31 am
That is the way out tax system is supposed to work. It was designed to work that way so as to avoid the rise of the aristocracy and maintain a 3 class system. The progressive system works just fine if you want to maintain this type of society. I just think the rates are too high accross the board (but that is another discussion).

Same thing with the Estate Tax. Go back in history and you will see the forefathers created this tax in 1797 and left the burden on the rich, since they are the one who benefit most by the freedoms and to minimize the risk of the rising aristocracy
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:45 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
There has to be a line drawn. Following that logic, would you be happy if a dozen or so people controlled 95 per cent of the world's wealth and threw the others a bone on occasion, just to keep them happy?

Screw the rich. I say we light the torches and storm the gates.


Gus, I think that you paint with too broad a brush. It is the rich that build factories, that develop industries, that create the jobs that keep the rest of us in Wheaties and cellphones.

I am a big believer that we need the rich more than they need us. We need their talent, their brains, their ability to put their money where their mouths' are.

There is no doubt that there are some of the rich who exploit the system. Then again, we could say the same about some of the poor. Crooks abound across class lines.

I am very grateful for the rich of this country, for the innovators who used their minds and their money to "make things happen". Those are the folks who made this country great. Yes, the middle class are certainly an important part of this growth, but without the engine, the train would never get moving.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:51 am
woiyo wrote:
That is the way out tax system is supposed to work. It was designed to work that way so as to avoid the rise of the aristocracy and maintain a 3 class system. The progressive system works just fine if you want to maintain this type of society. I just think the rates are too high accross the board (but that is another discussion).

Same thing with the Estate Tax. Go back in history and you will see the forefathers created this tax in 1797 and left the burden on the rich, since they are the one who benefit most by the freedoms and to minimize the risk of the rising aristocracy

Somebody check the temperature in Hell.... I've just agreed with woiyo.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:52 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
There has to be a line drawn. Following that logic, would you be happy if a dozen or so people controlled 95 per cent of the world's wealth and threw the others a bone on occasion, just to keep them happy?

Screw the rich. I say we light the torches and storm the gates.


Gus, I think that you paint with too broad a brush. It is the rich that build factories, that develop industries, that create the jobs that keep the rest of us in Wheaties and cellphones.

I am a big believer that we need the rich more than they need us. We need their talent, their brains, their ability to put their money where their mouths' are.

There is no doubt that there are some of the rich who exploit the system. Then again, we could say the same about some of the poor. Crooks abound across class lines.

I am very grateful for the rich of this country, for the innovators who used their minds and their money to "make things happen". Those are the folks who made this country great. Yes, the middle class are certainly an important part of this growth, but without the engine, the train would never get moving.


Correct. And the Elite must recognize that they have a Patriotic Duty to support the system that provides them the working class to enhance their positions. They need each other or else no one would build the train, let alone drive the train.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:52 am
Phoenix wrote:
I am very grateful for the rich of this country, for the innovators who used their minds and their money to "make things happen". Those are the folks who made this country great


Those are the folks who made this country great? Please. My vote goes to the working man.

Hell, the Indians had a nice thing going here until we (and especially the rich and greedy) came along and f u cked things up.

Like I said before, screw the rich.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:54 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I am a big believer that we need the rich more than they need us. We need their talent, their brains, their ability to put their money where their mouths' are.

That is complete BS....

Second and later generations with money show no better management than the average person.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 07:58 am
Zeno's paradox. (among others)
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:02 am
Quote:
Second and later generations with money show no better management than the average person.


That may very well be true in some cases, but I think that you are treading into different waters, and creating an entirely different issue. I am for cutting out the estate tax, for a few reasons. First, I think that a person who has made a lot of money should be able to pass it on to whom he wants. It should not be up to the government to tell him what to do with his money after death. He earned it, he has the right to use it or give it away as he wishes.

Second, by creating an estate tax, you are penalizing the thrifty rich. If a rich old geezer blows his money before he dies, that is ok, but if he saves or invests it, his heirs do not benefit from his frugality. Not fair!
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:03 am
Zeno was an idiot, but I take your point.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:08 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
First, I think that a person who has made a lot of money should be able to pass it on to whom he wants. It should not be up to the government to tell him what to do with his money after death. He earned it, he has the right to use it or give it away as he wishes.

Second, by creating an estate tax, you are penalizing the thrifty rich. If a rich old geezer blows his money before he dies, that is ok, but if he saves or invests it, his heirs do not benefit from his frugality. Not fair![/color][/b]

If you want fair, go to the fair grounds.

We're not talking fairness... we're talking economics and tax policy.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:16 am
Quote:
We're not talking fairness... we're talking economics and tax policy.



DrewDad- Sad, but true. But it does not have to be.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:16 am
DrewDad wrote:
Zeno was an idiot, but I take your point.
My response was just exactly that the logic of Zeno was idiotic and yet is constantly redressed and sold as reason. (Perhaps we can put the blame on Plato and Aristotle, I know I do)
Zeno's arguments are perhaps the first examples of a method of proof called reductio ad absurdum, also known as proof by contradiction. They are also credited as a source of the dialectic method used by Socrates.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:22 am
Quote:
Like I said before, screw the rich.


Gus........so find yourself a rich old broad........................... Laughing
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:23 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
Second and later generations with money show no better management than the average person.


That may very well be true in some cases, but I think that you are treading into different waters, and creating an entirely different issue. I am for cutting out the estate tax, for a few reasons. First, I think that a person who has made a lot of money should be able to pass it on to whom he wants. It should not be up to the government to tell him what to do with his money after death. He earned it, he has the right to use it or give it away as he wishes.

Second, by creating an estate tax, you are penalizing the thrifty rich. If a rich old geezer blows his money before he dies, that is ok, but if he saves or invests it, his heirs do not benefit from his frugality. Not fair!


The govt does not tell someone how to abandon/distribute their property. The Govt taxes the transfer of property from one person to another above certain limits, during life and at death.

You do not understand how the tax works, nor why it was developed int he first place. Go here and learn.

http://www.brandeis.edu/gsa/gradjournal/2003/pdf/silberstein.pdf
0 Replies
 
 

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