We already have universal healthcare!!

Dadpad
I hate to tell you this but 50,000 dollars is about half a heart attack.

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When I was sick in 2005 my hospital bill ws over 80K....not counting pysicians charges...that brought it up quite a bit higher...

My bill for 90 minutes at the er, a cat scan and two slugs of duladid for my kidney stones was 7000 and they didn't even fix me. And that doesn't count the seperate bills from the doctors and the people who READ the cat scan.

I'm sure squinney's will be around the same.

expensive to get sick in the good old USA....

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kickycan wrote:

How do they fund the healthcare system in France? Let's do that.

It's funded by the people in the form of taxes. That is true of all government controlled care programs, unless a country is rich in oil wealth. Although the French system does have it's flaws (it's waaay to easy to get lots of free drugs), it is a system to be admired for the way it takes care of all people, no matter what their economic or social standing. Rich people have more options if they want to pay out of their own pockets. I don't think we will ever see such a system in the US, it creates too much equality.

As I've said on other threads- Americans associate their salaries and material goods with happiness. Americans would rather have a big stash of store crap bought with tax rebates than a healthy, equal society. In the long run, it will do us in.

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and the down side to free drugs?

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

and the down side to free drugs?

I thought that might get attention. It is a real problem there. Let's just say that Rush Limbaugh would think he died and went heaven if he got such a deal.

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Green Witch wrote:

kickycan wrote:
How do they fund the healthcare system in France? Let's do that.

It's funded by the people in the form of taxes. That is true of all government controlled care programs, unless a country is rich in oil wealth. Although the French system does have it's flaws (it's waaay to easy to get lots of free drugs), it is a system to be admired for the way it takes care of all people, no matter what their economic or social standing. Rich people have more options if they want to pay out of their own pockets. I don't think we will ever see such a system in the US, it creates too much equality.

As I've said on other threads- Americans associate their salaries and material goods with happiness. Americans would rather have a big stash of store crap bought with tax rebates than a healthy, equal society. In the long run, it will do us in.

Well then, on this issue, I proclaim that our country sucks. Vive la France!

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Green Witch wrote:

As I've said on other threads- Americans associate their salaries and material goods with happiness. Americans would rather have a big stash of store crap bought with tax rebates than a healthy, equal society. In the long run, it will do us in.

The connection between general attitudes formed by commercialism and marketing and our failed healthcare system is very strong. As alan watts used to say we don't have an attachment to stuff (materialism), if we did we would take better care of our stuff. We have an addiction to acquiring stuff, which is a learned behaviour. What this means for healthcare is 1) that we don't want to pay for it but more importantly 2) we won't pay attention to problems in healthcare until we have absolutely no other choice. We are too busy chasing the next gotta have gizmo or "fun activity" to free up enough brain space to worry about health care.

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Green Witch wrote:

a healthy, equal society. ...

Let me know when this happens 'cause while you want free health care, I'd like a brand new free car and a nice free plasma TV. I too, want equality.

Do you think I can get a big juicy welfare check and food stamps in the bargain. You know how expensive steak is these days...Only those on welfare seem to be able to afford these things.

Doesn't seem fair does it?

Now real equality would translate to FREE FOOD. Cool

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I don't want free healthcare, I want fair affordable health care.

As someone with no insurance, I pay an increased rate over insured folks when I HAVE to see someone, unless I want to go to an overcrowded, understaffed clinic. Ain't it cool....

(and cash up front) Rolling Eyes

RH

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Miller wrote:

Green Witch wrote:
a healthy, equal society. ...

Let me know when this happens 'cause while you want free health care, I'd like a brand new free car and a nice free plasma TV. I too, want equality.

Do you think I can get a big juicy welfare check and food stamps in the bargain. You know how expensive steak is these days...Only those on welfare seem to be able to afford these things.

Doesn't seem fair does it?

Now real equality would translate to FREE FOOD.

Where did I say anything about "free"? I want to pay, I do pay. My doctors and clinics accept my checks and cash. Insurance companies tell me I don't have enough money to buy their services and the government has no place for me to send money that will get me health care. I qualify for some "free" testing like mamagrams and paps, but if something turns up on one of these tests I have no coverage to be healed, so I no longer accept them. When I did accept them I always gave a donation to the hospital/clinic where I had the service done.

I own a business Miller and I employ six to eight people. I work far more hours than you could ever imagine. Just because I'm not suited to be a medical doctor, or a lawyer, or an accountant or someone willing to do a job they hate to get some health insurance doesn't make me less a person than you. I rarely interact with you because I don't think you have a soul and your comments about poor people and food prove you don't have a heart. I've worked for years with food pantries and with homeless shelters, I wish upon you that one day you will find yourself in need of these places so you will acquire some compassion. I find you pathetic.

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miller wrote :

Quote:

Let me know when this happens 'cause while you want free health care, I'd like a brand new free car and a nice free plasma TV.

i don't think people expect FREE healthcare . as is well-known , healthcare in ontario (and canada as a whole) is NOT free .
it is financed through : sales taxes , general taxation AND an income graduated health premium .

as i have stated many times , ontario's (and canada's ) healthsystem is NOT perfect .
perhaps i have paid more into the system over the last 50 years than i have used , but i certainly don't object to that . i could have turned seriously sick just like any other citizen and would not have been able to pay my own way .
i feel quite confident that the current system will be able to take care of me if i need it .
we have many friends who are now in their eighties - we are not quite there yet - that require increased medical care and no one has been refused medical care because they didn't have a big enough pocketbook .
hbg

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You're wasting your time Hamburger. Miller has a head as thick as a bowling ball.

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I caught some of 60 Minutes segment last Sunday on the Danish people being the happiest in the world. It seemed that their U plan was part of the reason they were so happy. They also had govt. paid college educations, among other things. Also, the country did not have near the disparity of income and wealth as exists in the USA.

I wager that our govt. could go a long way toward paying for a U plan were we to eliminate the tax cuts for the wealthy.

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rabel22 wrote:

Dadpad
I hate to tell you this but 50,000 dollars is about half a heart attack.

One half paid for by the medicare levy the other by self insurance.

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wow, did i just read 50 grand is half a heart attack? jesus chrsit i hope your exaggerating alot.

i dont have insurance son, dont get me down talkin about healthcare costs por favor.

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advocate wrote :

Quote:

I caught some of 60 Minutes segment last Sunday on the Danish people being the happiest in the world. It seemed that their U plan was part of the reason they were so happy. They also had govt. paid college educations, among other things. Also, the country did not have near the disparity of income and wealth as exists in the USA.

I wager that our govt. could go a long way toward paying for a U plan were we to eliminate the tax cuts for the wealthy.

perhaps you missed when it was stated that danes pay about 50% of their income in taxes (i believe that is similar in the scandinavian states) .
from what we could tell by spending only four days there , people indeed seemed quite content and it also looked as if they were living quite well and enjoying life .

i doubt very much however that many U.S. citizen (or canadians , for that matter) would be willing to pay anything near 50 % in taxes - NO MATTER WHAT BENEFITS THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO ENJOY !

i think those northern europeans are are different breed of people .
their view of life is simply different from that of north-americans .
they want a good life but don't expect to become rich ; they want to enjoy time with their families , enjoy vacations and be free of having to worry what might happen to them if they get sick .

it reminds me a bit of the old farmers' co-op's in canada . they all chip in if someone needs help and they don't expect anything in return .
also , being rather small countries they probably realize that they do not represent a large economic power and that co-operation is necessary for them to succeed .

be watching what will happen in the U.S. after the next election - from the other side of lake ontario .
hbg

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Some people take the tack that they should invest as a society into a good health care system so that when they or people they love need health care it will be available at a reasonable cost. We on the other hand take the approach that so long as we personally feel that we have the health care we need all is good. Group focus vs individual focus.

Of course more and more are finding that when they need health care it is rationed, and that even if they do get the treatment they need they run up against lifetime benefit caps, and that if they need to change plans and have health problems they are screwed. Many find out after the fact that they don't have the protection that they thought they had.

even those of us who currently have full coverage are "whistling past the graveyard' when we claim that we don't need to worry about our broken health care system.

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maybe im on to something, since governments pay any bills that the patient doesnt pay, they can charge whatever they want. the gov't doesnt say no.

can this be part of the reason healthcare is costing more?

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OGIONIK wrote:

maybe im on to something, since governments pay any bills that the patient doesnt pay, they can charge whatever they want. the gov't doesnt say no.

can this be part of the reason healthcare is costing more?

No, it cost so much because we don't invest in prevention of ill health, because we don't encourage early treatment, because the system is incredibly bureaucratic, because we tend to go for the most technology intensive and expensive treatments, and because we allow profiteers to extract huge amounts of cash from the system-primarily through the drug, device and insurance companies.

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hamburger wrote:

i think those northern europeans are are different breed of people .
their view of life is simply different from that of north-americans .
they want a good life but don't expect to become rich ; they want to enjoy time with their families , enjoy vacations and be free of having to worry what might happen to them if they get sick .
hbg

I noticed this when I had a Finnish roommate in college. I would get annoyed because whenever we walked around Manhattan she would give money to every panhandler we encountered. She didn't make much money and I thought she was being too generous. She would tell me not to worry, she still had enough for herself. She owned exactly four pairs of quality shoes - a pair of flats, a pair of black high heels, running sneakers, and winter boots. Her clothing took up only a 1/3 of her closet and she ended up renting the other 2/3rds to a girl from Long Island who in addition rented a storage unit to store the balance of her wardrobe that didn't fit in our dorm. Someone once asked her if she would stay in America after she finishes her studies and she replied that " No. Life is much better in Finland, people take care of each there. Americans only take care of themselves." My only regret is that I never went to visit her after she left.

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We already have universal healthcare!!

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